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FS6 A/C Compressor Clutch Question

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ratdude747

FS6 A/C Compressor Clutch Question

It seems I've ignored an issue with my A/C compressor (FS6) that need addressed.

Somehow the clutch plate failed and my clutch was never fully disengaging. There's 5 tons of powered something (clutch lining?) in the area, and the compressor sometimes free spins when not engaged. Based on the noise I'm hearing metal on metal contact. Annoying and not good long term, obviously.

Having done some ebay sleuthing, I've found motorcraft pulleys but no clutch plates (and none of the on-site documentation calls out the part number for anything other than an entire compressor)... and I am finding 3rd party kits around $100 or so (with a new coil too). Before I drop $100+ on the latter, are these any good (the clutch, pulley, and pulley bearing, I probably won't bother replacing the coil)?

My A/C does work... so I'd prefer to not replace the entire compressor.

1984 F150: 300 L6, AOD, RWD. EEC IV / TFI, Feedback Carter YFA Carb. Stock everything but radio (for now).

Gary Lewis

Re: FS6 A/C Compressor Clutch Question

Administrator

Why worry about it, we are going into winter!

Seriously though, you are right that we don't have that info on the site. But here's what I've found and I need to put it on the site. Does it help?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

Gary Lewis

Re: FS6 A/C Compressor Clutch Question

Administrator

Actually, as I now look at it, I doubt it helps at all!

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ratdude747

Re: FS6 A/C Compressor Clutch Question

Actually, that is *exactly* what I was looking for. With a part number in-hand, I found an ebay seller with a NOS Motorcraft clutch plate for pretty cheap... so I nabbed that along with one of the NOS clutch pulleys. Between the two I'm just over $80 after shipping... but since it's OE, I think it's worth it. I did find a NOS Murray rebuilt clutch and coil kit for $75 shipped, but I don't know if Murray rebuilds are any good. For $5 more, I'll go with the devil I know and save the murray kit for somebody with a bad coil.

I've seen bad things in some aftermarket AC clutches... Why I was hesitant.

I'll need to see about finding shims for this... I ought to pull mine apart and measure to see (I'm pretty sure McMaster-Carr or Misumi sells washer shims in the size I'll need, hopefully?). Or I'll get lucky and the existing shims fit?

I did use my A/C the other day... got a bit warm and vent wasn't cutting the mustard... Not to mention I use defog every morning, and the A/C significantly boosts such (turns the heater into a de-humidifier).

1984 F150: 300 L6, AOD, RWD. EEC IV / TFI, Feedback Carter YFA Carb. Stock everything but radio (for now).

Gary Lewis

Re: FS6 A/C Compressor Clutch Question

Administrator

Great! Glad it helped.

Sure glad you found the parts. Hopefully your shims will work. Let us know!

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ratdude747

Re: FS6 A/C Compressor Clutch Question

Got one part in already, the clutch disc (shipped from Indy, FedEx kicked butt on the turnaround).

Now with that in hand, I can see what kind of shims I'll need (or want). Going with 1/2" ID keyed ("arbor") shims . They're keyed to ensure that I'll be able to slide them over the shaft's key w/o having to worry about removing the key if it's stuck. Despite being a denso compressor, the pulley bore and key doesn't seem to be metric (Sloppy fit for a 1/2"x18" key, but the center appears to be die-cast w/o any machining).

Part numbers:

Mcmaster-carr: 3088A527 (Shim set)

Grainger: 5FA93 (0.005" 10 pack, not stocked)

Destaco makes (or used to make) them too... all over ebay. Nothing thin enough though.

"Precision brand" is also all over ebay... but the shipping is slow on some, and the others aren't much cheaper than McMaster.

As for shims "made" for A/C compressors... McMaster is still somehow cheaper compared to ebay! I guess a part that is "made" for ____ automatically gets a 300% markup?

Going with the McMaster set... it will be here quick and if I got the sizing wrong, we'll all learn together on my dime.

1984 F150: 300 L6, AOD, RWD. EEC IV / TFI, Feedback Carter YFA Carb. Stock everything but radio (for now).

Gary Lewis

Re: FS6 A/C Compressor Clutch Question

Administrator

Good luck! Thanks for being the pioneer on this.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: FS6 A/C Compressor Clutch Question

Administrator

In reply to this post by ratdude747

If I remember correctly the shims actually go on the end of the shaft just as they do on the FS10 compressors. They need to fit inside the clutch plate bore and over the threaded end of the shaft.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

ratdude747

Re: FS6 A/C Compressor Clutch Question

Great... If I screw up, I screw up.

In that case, the ring shims would be easy to obtain since it looks like 5/16" or 8mm ID ring shims would work. Or at least the ones on some of the weld tooling at work. Edit: yes, Mcmaster sells shim rings with a 1/2" OD and a 5/16" ID among other combinations... we have options.

We shall see. Makes sense now. Forgot that there is an inside ridge in the clutch plate.

1984 F150: 300 L6, AOD, RWD. EEC IV / TFI, Feedback Carter YFA Carb. Stock everything but radio (for now).

ratdude747

Re: FS6 A/C Compressor Clutch Question

Tore her down tonight (pulley supposed to come in today, but no mail truck yet :( ).

Wrong shim type indeed. It is like the FS10 in that they go on the threaded end of the shaft. I do have a junk FS-10 (off my ranger, bad shaft seal/shaft) that I can cannibalize for shims if needed.

Root cause is degraded rubber in the clutch disc. It's made like a harmonic balancer. The rubber rotted, and the disc drifted towards the pulley until it rubbed when not engaged.

Was some grease behind the clutch on the shaft. Not PAG or mineral oil at least... hoping I don't have a trashed shaft seal. That's been the bane of my existence on FS10's; the sealing area of the shafts gall up and eat the shaft seals. Both of my 1995 rangers lost their A/C over that issue (and didn't hold a charge until given new compressors).

1984 F150: 300 L6, AOD, RWD. EEC IV / TFI, Feedback Carter YFA Carb. Stock everything but radio (for now).

Gary Lewis

Re: FS6 A/C Compressor Clutch Question

Administrator

You are making good progress. But I hate to see that the FS10's have a problem - I just moved to an FS10.

Anyway, keep on keeping on!

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ratdude747

Re: FS6 A/C Compressor Clutch Question

Dunno if it's a 1995 specific problem... and this was after 20+ years mind you (the second ranger lost it's charge a year or so after I bought it, spring of 2018 or so I think?). Don't know if the second compressor (the one I still have) has a galled shaft... but with a bad shaft seal (felt dust cover soaked in PAG oil), and having had the previous ranger eat a shaft seal kit for lunch, I didn't take any chances and and replaced the compressor on sight (new Denso from rockauto, who is/was the OEM). $100 is cheap insurance. Kept the old one (no core return on a new compressor) for the clutch parts and shim.

---

Anyway, I got the pulley in (mailman running a late shift as usual). Got her installed... Had to remove 0.090" of the existing 0.150" of shim to get the gap in spec. It's a bit narrow (0.20-0.25"), but I'll happily take that over wide open any day.

The shims are 1/2" OD, 5/16" ID ring shims. I had two 0.60" shims and a 0.30" shim in my compressor originally.

1984 F150: 300 L6, AOD, RWD. EEC IV / TFI, Feedback Carter YFA Carb. Stock everything but radio (for now).

86 1/2 Brutus

Re: FS6 A/C Compressor Clutch Question

Gary: Do you have your FS10 in use yet? If so how does it compare to the FS6? just out of curiosity. I have a FS10 in my Crown vic, owned it since new. The AC works very well, but is slow, very slow to get cold. the new system i put in Brutus, FS6, at least in my situation performs leaps and bounds better then the vic's FS10. Very quick to cool down and am using just the mechanical clutch fan in brutus. The crown vic has a clutch fan and electric fan

Nick and George
1986 1/2 F150 XLT Lariat 4X2 300 Six - C6 - 3:08 in a 8.8 - Fully Loaded - 8 Foot Box
Owned since new

ratdude747

Re: FS6 A/C Compressor Clutch Question

I'm not Gary, but at least in my ranger, the A/C can be fast to cold, but can be slow on occasion. No better/worse than the F150's FS6 IMHO. The ranger has the stock mechanical clutch fan.

1984 F150: 300 L6, AOD, RWD. EEC IV / TFI, Feedback Carter YFA Carb. Stock everything but radio (for now).

Gary Lewis

Re: FS6 A/C Compressor Clutch Question

Administrator

George - No, I don't have the FS10 in service yet. The FS6 was marginal, so I'm hoping for a significant improvement. But, I did fully insulate and seal the underhood box, so that should help.

If you want to talk about A/C systems then Bill/85lebaront2 is the guy. He converted Darth from FS6 to FS10.

Ratdude - Good you got the gap you were looking for. You are on a roll! Well done.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

86 1/2 Brutus

Re: FS6 A/C Compressor Clutch Question

Gary, i am just curious is all. All the stuff in Brutus is brand new and have no plans on swapping anything out.

Nick and George
1986 1/2 F150 XLT Lariat 4X2 300 Six - C6 - 3:08 in a 8.8 - Fully Loaded - 8 Foot Box
Owned since new

85lebaront2

Re: FS6 A/C Compressor Clutch Question

Administrator

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Gary, the primary reason for the compressor change was the EFI system and polygroove belts. The compressor mount changed from axial (FS6) to tangent (FS10). That and the different refrigerant lines for the FS10 when I scored a complete 1996 system from an F150 (including the FS10) required the update.

I had previously converted the original system to R134a and had no problem other than it took a while to pull the temperature down after a hot soak and restart.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

86 1/2 Brutus

Re: FS6 A/C Compressor Clutch Question

Bill, I remember talking to you about your ac system when i was putting the new ac in the truck. So i really am curious here, now that i know that you did have a functioning fs6 converted. Other then the slow cool down, did you notice anything different between the 6 and the 10, the only reason i'm asking is really for curiosity sake. I have done r134a retrofits and have done very extensive research into it. What i find right now, at least in my situation. My crown vic has the fs10 compressor, i've owned it since new takes much longer to get cold then the fs6 based system i have in the truck. Now i'm not really sure about this or not, but the oil i used in the fs6 system had ice32 in it. The fs6 system in the truck works almost good as r12 did. It gets ice cold just sitting there idling. The crown vic at idle, the ac is just a bit cold and dosent get cold until the car starts to move. which has me wondering if ice32 is whats making the truck so cold.

Nick and George
1986 1/2 F150 XLT Lariat 4X2 300 Six - C6 - 3:08 in a 8.8 - Fully Loaded - 8 Foot Box
Owned since new

85lebaront2

Re: FS6 A/C Compressor Clutch Question

Administrator

Damn system just dumped everything I had written. When I converted Darth I had the entire 1994-96/7 system, new multipass condenser, larger evaporator core and the 1996 inside ducts with the blend door that actually closes off the heat in full cold. The evaporator case has the insulator pad on it too.

On your CV, does it have just the engine fan, or the auxiliary or even the huge electric one? Try, if you have one, putting a decent size electric (house fan) in front of the CV and see if it cools better, check the pressures when it is running.

Keep in mind, I have twice the cab size (crew cab) and a 460 underhood so (a) more area to cool (b) more underhood heat with less area for it to get out through.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

86 1/2 Brutus

Re: FS6 A/C Compressor Clutch Question

The crown vic has both the clutch fan and the huge electric fan. when you start the car and put the ac on, the electric fan starts up. This was one of the reasons i started a thread about electric condenser fans. I wanted to put one in the front of the condenser on the truck, but after installing the system, i feel there is no need for one, let alone the room. although i would like to put one, there is just no room. Also on the crown vic, the computer has some to do with the ac, ie: if you accelerate hard, the computer shuts the compressor off until the car gets back into overdrive

Nick and George
1986 1/2 F150 XLT Lariat 4X2 300 Six - C6 - 3:08 in a 8.8 - Fully Loaded - 8 Foot Box
Owned since new