F250 springs on F150 question

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F250 springs on F150 question

Jacob84
This post was updated on .
Hey guys, I'm looking to replace the coil and leaf springs under my truck. My truck either has 390k or 490k miles of Arkansas roads on it so all the springs are toast. I wouldn't mind the truck sitting a little higher and I want some more capacity in the rear. I haul things on a regular basis and I despise a truck that squats when it has a load and it doesn't take much to squat mine anymore. I was searching the ford-truck forums and found a guy with a 94 F150 who swapped out his springs with some F250 Moog cc824 coils up front and 5 leaf F250 springs in the rear. He also removed the rear 2" blocks to maintain a "stock look" (nose slightly lower). The f250 springs with the blocks would've had the tail in the air. Could I do the same on my Bullnose?
84 F150 base model, 351w HO, MSD 6AL, C6 trans, 9 inch rear, reg cab, long bed, 4x4. 31s, stock suspension. New 95 roller 351w coming soon with 5.0 ho roller cam, aftermarket efi, and other toys.
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Re: F250 springs on F150 question

Angelo Voltura
I have a 95 that I installed CC824 coils on, and then later swapped to the bullnose clip. They will bring the front end up about 2" over stock but you will need adjustable or at minimum 4 degree camber bushings to bring the camber back in when it is aligned. I can now clear stock 16" wheels and tires, but I continue to run my 15" steel wheels.

As far as the spring pack goes I believe they are 3" wide vs 2.5" on a 2wd F150 and the hangers need to be replaced to accommodate for it.

Depending on what spring package your truck had stock it could either sit level or super tail high. My truck had the lightest front springs with the heaviest rear springs with no blocks and sat almost 3-4" difference between front and rear. It's much closer to level now with the front coils, but still a bit noticeable on a flat surface. My advice is to leave the blocks and check it out after you install and BREAK IN the coils. As you drive the ride height will settle. Check it a few days later.
1979 F150 "406M"
1985 F250 (Dads) 351W
1995 F150 (1985 clip swapped) 300
1997 F250 HD 351W
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Re: F250 springs on F150 question

Frank Wyatt
In reply to this post by Jacob84
How about an auxiliary/overload spring like on some F 250's. I found this on LMC: https://www.lmctruck.com/1980-96-ford/suspension-front-rear/fd-1980-96-rear-suspension-2wd-f150. If I was wanting more load capacity that's the route I would take. Of course you said you are wanting to change your springs anyways, here everything is all together. Personally, I wouldn't go to 3/4 ton springs on a 1/2 ton but it's your truck and you're the one that would have to take the bumps.
1981 F 150 Custom 300 ci Carter YFA T-18 3.25 9" rear 2WD
all emissions intact except thermactor pump and cat
dual gas tanks
1990 Lincoln Town Car 5.0 AOD
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Re: F250 springs on F150 question

swampedout
Yea get that squat out! Ive got a Toyota that squats just from putting a 100lb shell on and it drives me crazy.

The other option is seeing if you can get your leaf springs re-arched. If you have a shop that does suspension for commercial vehicles and 18 wheelers, they'll do it. I priced one shop out, they said they'd do mine for 50 a side if you bring them in off the vehicle. I think they told me a 3 day turn around.
There's also the option of doing airbags on the rear so you have more control over your load capacity and ride height. They won't lift the truck, but they will keep it from squatting when you haul.

As far as the coils go, I wish I could help you. Im sure there are other vehicles out there with the same size spring that has a higher spring rate but I don't know what they are.
Maybe look up springs for the extended cab? They should be designed for a heavier constant load. Or if the f150 with a heavier motor (460, 6.3, Idk if these came with the f150?) has different springs, try those out. If you dive deep enough into parts catalogues, you can find the spring rate of any spring and see which one supports the most weight.
Either way, whatever you do in back will matter the most. Even if you get the front new stock sized springs, you should be fine.
Sam
1984 F250. 460. MSD Ignition. GVR Overdrive. 4x4. Airbag rear suspension
1980 Toyota pickup
1993 Suzuki Sidekick
1997 Toyota T100
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Re: F250 springs on F150 question

Jacob84
In reply to this post by Angelo Voltura
I did some searching and found some Moog adjustable bushings that are 2 3/4 degree of max adjustment for camber. Would that be enough for those cc824 springs?

My truck is 4x4 so it should have the correct hangers but will double check and make sure they're 3 inch wide.

Duly noted, install springs and break them in, then decide on the blocks 
84 F150 base model, 351w HO, MSD 6AL, C6 trans, 9 inch rear, reg cab, long bed, 4x4. 31s, stock suspension. New 95 roller 351w coming soon with 5.0 ho roller cam, aftermarket efi, and other toys.
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Re: F250 springs on F150 question

Jacob84
In reply to this post by Frank Wyatt
If my rear springs were still in good shape I would definitely go with some overload springs like you're talking about. Keep the f150 ride quality but no squat, that would be ideal. When I look at the time and money it would be easier and cheaper to swap to the f250 springs. But you're right, its gonna ride like a dump-truck and I'll have to live with it everyday. I'll keep your option in mind.
84 F150 base model, 351w HO, MSD 6AL, C6 trans, 9 inch rear, reg cab, long bed, 4x4. 31s, stock suspension. New 95 roller 351w coming soon with 5.0 ho roller cam, aftermarket efi, and other toys.
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Re: F250 springs on F150 question

Jacob84
In reply to this post by swampedout
I get disgusted when I see all the lifted trucks in my town that squat with a trailer attached I don't wanna be one of those guys lol. Plus driving with a load that squats your truck can get dangerous, front end gets squirrely.

I didn't think about getting them re-arched, I'll see if there's shop around me that could do it. The downside would be the turnaround time, It would be difficult to be without the truck for a few days. Air bags would be awesome, I've got a buddy that has airbags on his 3/4 ton Dodge, it rides smooth and level. But I'm also the guy that just wants to be able to hook up to something and go, simplicity means a lot to me.

I'll do some searching on rockauto, they're good about giving you spring rates and installed lengths on coil springs. I may shoot for copying the springs of a light duty F250 4x4 with a 351w. That's the closest truck to mine in weight rating but would still give me some more capacity over stock.  
84 F150 base model, 351w HO, MSD 6AL, C6 trans, 9 inch rear, reg cab, long bed, 4x4. 31s, stock suspension. New 95 roller 351w coming soon with 5.0 ho roller cam, aftermarket efi, and other toys.
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Re: F250 springs on F150 question

Jacob84
In reply to this post by Angelo Voltura
Question I just thought of. Did you have to change to a taller shock when you went to the new cc824 springs? Or were you able to get away with the stock shocks?
84 F150 base model, 351w HO, MSD 6AL, C6 trans, 9 inch rear, reg cab, long bed, 4x4. 31s, stock suspension. New 95 roller 351w coming soon with 5.0 ho roller cam, aftermarket efi, and other toys.
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Re: F250 springs on F150 question

Gary Lewis
Administrator
In reply to this post by Jacob84
Rear spring rates are difficult to figure out.  So if Rock Auto has a good way to do it, more power to them.

But, here are the pages we have on the subject:

Spring Codes: Here you can convert the code on the certification label to the part number of the springs.  But that doesn't give you the spring rates.

Rear Springs: Here you can find the capacity of the various part numbers.

Doubt that will help though, but there 'tis.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: F250 springs on F150 question

Nothing Special
In reply to this post by Jacob84
Jacob84 wrote
....  Plus driving with a load that squats your truck can get dangerous, front end gets squirrely....
There's no reason that the rear end squatting should make the front end squirrely.  The only effect in the front end is a little more caster, and that shouldn't be enough to be significant.

That said, too much weight in the rear can make the front end squirrely.  But stiffer springs in the rear won't help that.  You just need to balance the load better.

And overloaded soft springs in the rear end can cause the truck to wallow a lot.  Stiffer rear springs will help that.  But it from the rear swaying, not the front being squirrely.

I guess my only point is that if you're having handling problems with the front end with a heavy load, you need to do more than put stiffer springs in the rear to take care of it.
Sorry, no '80 - '86 Ford trucks
1997 F-250HD crew cab short box, 460, E4OD, 4.10 gears
1971 Bronco, 302, NV3550 5 speed, Atlas 4.3:1 transfer case, 33" tires
2015 E-450-based 28' class C motorhome, 6.8L V-10
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Re: F250 springs on F150 question

Angelo Voltura
In reply to this post by Jacob84
No I did not have to change the shocks, the shocks are all the same no matter what spring you use. The CC824 spring is just a heavy factory spring, in fact I think the CC824 springs are what the 4x4 F150s have stock.
1979 F150 "406M"
1985 F250 (Dads) 351W
1995 F150 (1985 clip swapped) 300
1997 F250 HD 351W
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Re: F250 springs on F150 question

Frank Wyatt
In reply to this post by Nothing Special
Also tires can affect how much of a load that you can safely carry. Tires that are not rated for the load being carried or under inflated can impact the truck's handling.
1981 F 150 Custom 300 ci Carter YFA T-18 3.25 9" rear 2WD
all emissions intact except thermactor pump and cat
dual gas tanks
1990 Lincoln Town Car 5.0 AOD
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Re: F250 springs on F150 question

Jacob84
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
Thanks Gary, I'll check those out, I appreciate it!
84 F150 base model, 351w HO, MSD 6AL, C6 trans, 9 inch rear, reg cab, long bed, 4x4. 31s, stock suspension. New 95 roller 351w coming soon with 5.0 ho roller cam, aftermarket efi, and other toys.
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Re: F250 springs on F150 question

Jacob84
In reply to this post by Nothing Special
I see what you're saying. The front end of the truck has been replaced with all Moog parts minus the bushings and coil springs. I need to replace those bushings (radius arm and axle pivot), that's probably not helping. And I don't doubt the rear is wallowing because the springs are slap wore out. That may have been what I was feeling. Only feels squirrely when I got a good amount of payload.

If it were your truck what would do to improve towing safety and drivability? I tow and haul on a regular basis but it's still just a half ton and I keep that in mind. If I need to tow something real heavy I'll call one of my buddy's with a bigger truck. The most I'll ever tow is another half ton truck or an open race trailer. Other than that its just brush, boat, lawn trailer, and the occasional load of compost or rock.
84 F150 base model, 351w HO, MSD 6AL, C6 trans, 9 inch rear, reg cab, long bed, 4x4. 31s, stock suspension. New 95 roller 351w coming soon with 5.0 ho roller cam, aftermarket efi, and other toys.
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Re: F250 springs on F150 question

Jacob84
In reply to this post by Angelo Voltura
Sweet, good to know
84 F150 base model, 351w HO, MSD 6AL, C6 trans, 9 inch rear, reg cab, long bed, 4x4. 31s, stock suspension. New 95 roller 351w coming soon with 5.0 ho roller cam, aftermarket efi, and other toys.
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Re: F250 springs on F150 question

Jacob84
In reply to this post by Frank Wyatt
I 100% agree. I keep a pretty good eye on the tire pressure and always have good tires. The tires I have are the same load rating as stock but next time I'll get a set with a higher capacity just to make me feel better.
84 F150 base model, 351w HO, MSD 6AL, C6 trans, 9 inch rear, reg cab, long bed, 4x4. 31s, stock suspension. New 95 roller 351w coming soon with 5.0 ho roller cam, aftermarket efi, and other toys.
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Re: F250 springs on F150 question

Nothing Special
In reply to this post by Jacob84
Jacob84 wrote
....  If it were your truck what would do to improve towing safety and drivability? I tow and haul on a regular basis but it's still just a half ton and I keep that in mind. If I need to tow something real heavy I'll call one of my buddy's with a bigger truck. The most I'll ever tow is another half ton truck or an open race trailer. Other than that its just brush, boat, lawn trailer, and the occasional load of compost or rock.
I had a '95 F-150 SCSB with about a 2.5" lift.  After I bought it my family decided that we should have a camper that could tow our '75 CJ5.  A motorhome wasn't in the budget so I got a lightweight slide-in camper.  Lightweight, but still pretty heavy for an F-150.  I figured I was about at my GVWR with the empty camper in the truck.  Add people and pack for a week and I was overweight (at least the Jeep was on a tow bar so I wasn't adding tongue weight).

First of all. I DON"T RECOMMEND DOING THIS.  Weight ratings are there for a reason.  Exceeding them at least eats into safety factors.

That said, the truck wallowed with that camper in the bed.  It was dangerous to drive.  So I added air bag helper springs.  Much like your thought of adding stiffer rear springs but with the ability to deflate them most of the time when I wasn't carrying the camper.  I'd measure the height of the truck before setting the camper on it and then inflate the bags to bring it back to the same height.  It would squat down about 4" with the camper and it took around 50 psi to bring it back to normal.

That made it a completely different truck.  I wouldn't say that the handling was crisp, but it was very similar to my later F-250 hauling that same camper.  Again, I know I was eating into my safety margins, but it didn't feel unsafe (I still had a lot more peace of mind carrying that camper when I eventually got a heavier truck).

So I'm not saying your plan to add stiffer springs is bad.  And maybe it was just your choice of words.  But any time I've had what I'd describe as a squirrely front end I had WAY too much weight WAY too far back.  I've actually only ever done that in a 3/4 ton truck and it isn't the rear end squat that messes it up, it's having the load cg behind the rear axle taking weight off the front end.  My camper was heavy (for an F-150) and the weight was high which certainly hurt.  But the cg was in front of the axle, I packed all of the heavy stuff right behind the cab and the weight of the people was in the cab, so I was pretty well balanced like that.
Sorry, no '80 - '86 Ford trucks
1997 F-250HD crew cab short box, 460, E4OD, 4.10 gears
1971 Bronco, 302, NV3550 5 speed, Atlas 4.3:1 transfer case, 33" tires
2015 E-450-based 28' class C motorhome, 6.8L V-10
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Re: F250 springs on F150 question

swampedout
In reply to this post by Jacob84
Also, sorry if anyone answered this but what is the payload difference 150 vs 250?
Sam
1984 F250. 460. MSD Ignition. GVR Overdrive. 4x4. Airbag rear suspension
1980 Toyota pickup
1993 Suzuki Sidekick
1997 Toyota T100
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Re: F250 springs on F150 question

Gary Lewis
Administrator
That is tough to answer, so I'll just post this from the 1985 brochure:

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: F250 springs on F150 question

Jacob84
In reply to this post by Nothing Special
Gotcha, that makes sense. Keeping the load center of gravity in the right spot is most important rather than the level of the truck bed. Next time I’m hauling a bunch of weight I’ll keep that in mind. I appreciate your thorough response, learned something new
84 F150 base model, 351w HO, MSD 6AL, C6 trans, 9 inch rear, reg cab, long bed, 4x4. 31s, stock suspension. New 95 roller 351w coming soon with 5.0 ho roller cam, aftermarket efi, and other toys.
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