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Electric Fans: Taurus, Mark VIII, Something else?

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Littlebeefy

Electric Fans: Taurus, Mark VIII, Something else?

Let's talk electric fans.

I got a hold of a 2 speed Taurus fan for cheap. I was thinking about installing it in a custom aluminum shroud. Then I heard about the Mark VIII fan (and the T-bird and Crown Vic fan), and now I'm wondering if I should try to make that work instead. Check out this thread for a discussion on the specs and differences: Mark VII Thread

I have the amps to spare and I'm going to get a custom shroud and controller made either way, so my question is which of these fans should I use? I have a 460 and a Champion radiator (2" thick). Which of these fans is the most powerful and still fits in front of our water pump? Anybody install any of these? I read here that @jacob84 installed a Taurus fan. How'd that go?

LittleBeefy aka Chad

“Dot Doitall”: 1984 Bronco XLT
460 (C8VE), Edelbrock Pro-Flo 4, ZF5, NP205, D44HP solid axle, 4.56
urban assault vehicle

"Bebe": 2022 Bronco Badlands 2dr
2.7l, Sasquatch, Iconic Silver, Black Marine-grade interior, hard-top

"Celeste": 1979 Porsche 928
4.5l K-jet, 5-sp, S4/GTS brakes, LSD, Pasha interior

Gary Lewis

Re: Electric Fans: Taurus, Mark VIII, Something else?

Administrator

I'm going to tag Scott/kramttocs as he's played with electric fans on his 460 - and has had some problems. But so far I'm sticking with the mechanical fan so don't have any experience to add.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

kramttocs

Re: Electric Fans: Taurus, Mark VIII, Something else?

Administrator

Thanks Gary.
More details are in the Camano thread but I have the unbranded Champion with the shroud -flat aluminum style with two fan holes and two sets of louvers.
It came with some junk fans that were terrible. I then switched to two Spal fans which required enlarging the holes some. These work absolutely great. I've towed with them and spent time in stop/go traffic with high outdoor temps (worst probably being in Tulsa during the last truck show) and haven't had any issues at all. This is the 460 with A/C and factory oil/tranny coolers. So there is a lot to pull through.

One of the best things about them is that I have them powered all the time. This has completely eliminated hot start issues.
This does incur some idle draw but it hasn't caused me any issues to the point where I've looked for a smarter controller or more elaborate relay/timer setup.

Scott
'Camano' 1986 F250 Supercab XLT Lariat 460/C6
'Chanute' 1980 F350 C&C 400/NP 435 - Gin Pole

But there ain't nothin' wrong with the radio

85lebaront2

Re: Electric Fans: Taurus, Mark VIII, Something else?

Administrator

In reply to this post by Littlebeefy

Several items, first, if you have a bad or cheap fan clutch on a 460 it isn't going to work, second, there is virtually no room for most electric fans between the radiator and water pump shaft with a 460 due to it's length.

You have to keep in mind, when Ford redesigned the F series and Bronco body and chassis for the 1980 model year, they had no intention of continuing the 460 in them. Thus the frame rail width, front crossmember and engine compartment were designed around the 351M and 400 to be the "big" engines, length was dictated by the 300 six.

Everything was fine until Ford started loosing sales to GM as they still had the 454 available.

Bottom line, the 460 is shoehorned into a space that wasn't designed for it and has to share it's radiator size with a 302. Since the engine sits a bit to the right, a Thunderbird (1996 model is the one I have) 2 speed electric fan will fit, if positioned to the left of center so it clears the water pump shaft. It is a pretty powerful fan. You will need some foam like you put around a window AC unit where the edge of the fan is off center behind the radiator to force the air to come through the radiator, or a sheet metal closure with some flaps that will push open at speed.

Wiring, I can use my EEC to control it, without one, you need some creative wiring two high temperature warning light switches, one for 200°F and one for 225°F, a relay if you have AC.

The fan needs to come on low with the AC compressor or at 200°F and if it is on with the AC and the engine reaches 200°F then switch to high and if on from engine temperature of 200°F and it climbs to 225°F then it should also switch to high.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

kramttocs

Re: Electric Fans: Taurus, Mark VIII, Something else?

Administrator

85lebaront2 wrote

there is virtually no room for most electric fans between the radiator and water pump shaft with a 460 due to it's length.

This is something worth noting when looking at using the shroud/fan setup from another vehicle vs the champion one. With the champion one there is plenty of clearance since it's pretty much just a 1" deep flat wall (with holes of course). With others from cars with hoods a mile long, it's a different story.

Edit: just looked at that link for the Mark VIII and those don't actually look that deep

Scott
'Camano' 1986 F250 Supercab XLT Lariat 460/C6
'Chanute' 1980 F350 C&C 400/NP 435 - Gin Pole

But there ain't nothin' wrong with the radio

85lebaront2

Re: Electric Fans: Taurus, Mark VIII, Something else?

Administrator

The Thunderbird one is pretty thin, if you don't have the motor directly in line with the water pump pulley. Considering that the MKVIII is on the same body as the T-bird (maybe a slightly older one) the V8 one might be the same, mine came from a 1996 V6 model.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: Electric Fans: Taurus, Mark VIII, Something else?

Administrator

In reply to this post by kramttocs

Scott - Does the fact that you have two fans help with the depth available?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

kramttocs

Re: Electric Fans: Taurus, Mark VIII, Something else?

Administrator

Definitely - thanks for pointing that out as I should have clarified.
Here you can see a top down image and the comment that even if it was all lined up there is still clearance.
Now, my 'plenty' may not the the same as someone else

Scott
'Camano' 1986 F250 Supercab XLT Lariat 460/C6
'Chanute' 1980 F350 C&C 400/NP 435 - Gin Pole

But there ain't nothin' wrong with the radio

Gary Lewis

Re: Electric Fans: Taurus, Mark VIII, Something else?

Administrator

I thought of the clearance that two fans give because my brother is needing to put more cooling on his '54 Skyliner. But the water pump pulley is very close to the radiator and unless he goes with two fans it ain't gonna happen.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Littlebeefy

Re: Electric Fans: Taurus, Mark VIII, Something else?

First off, thank you all for not turning this into a debate over electrical vs. mechanical fans.

If one were to use a single fan, like the 16" Taurus, could it simply be mounted off center to allow clearance for the water pump pulley or is that unrealistic? Again, assuming I'm making my own shroud. Anyone ever heard of that working?

kramttocs

Re: Electric Fans: Taurus, Mark VIII, Something else?

Administrator

For your homemade shroud are you going to mold it or in some way funnel it towards the off center fan? I don't think I'd want to do a single off center fan with a flat shroud.

Scott
'Camano' 1986 F250 Supercab XLT Lariat 460/C6
'Chanute' 1980 F350 C&C 400/NP 435 - Gin Pole

But there ain't nothin' wrong with the radio

85lebaront2

Re: Electric Fans: Taurus, Mark VIII, Something else?

Administrator

In reply to this post by Littlebeefy

Chad, I was putting the T-bird fan on to the driver's side to get adequate clearance to change belts. My thought was to take a piece of sheet metal to cover the remainder of the radiator, but cut some sections on the passenger side with vertical slots and cover them with rubber flaps so when the fan is running at a stop or low speed, they will be closed, but a higher speeds will open to allow more air flow through.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Angelo Voltura

Re: Electric Fans: Taurus, Mark VIII, Something else?

I know this is a 79 truck and radiator but it is 400 powered. I was able to score 2014+ Cherokee fans (7 and 9 blade) for free. They just about bolt in this truck and I think they'd easily fit an 80+. I wired it in myself after removing the driver module to dual relays and a thermostatic switch.

1978 F150 351W
1979 F150 "410M"
1979 F100 302
1979 F250 400
1987 F150 300
1990 F150 302
1991 F150 300
1995 F150 (1985 clip swapped) 300
1997 F250 351W

Pete Whitstone

Re: Electric Fans: Taurus, Mark VIII, Something else?

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

I'm not sure if the 460 and 351 radiators are the same, I think they are. I went with Infiniti fans when I converted my truck, they were pretty inexpensive but have held up really well, and work well. I documented that swap here.

https://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/My-81-flareside-is-going-electric-td60503.html

81 F150 Flareside, Edelbrock Pro Flow4 FI, hydraulic roller 351W, E4OD, 4x4, BW1356
92 F150 RCLB 351W E40D BW1356 mostly stock

85lebaront2

Re: Electric Fans: Taurus, Mark VIII, Something else?

Administrator

On the Bullnose there are three sizes and two different styles. The Diesels are all by themselves due to the size. Gas engines have an early and late mounting style, late carried through from, 1984 I believe until 1996/7. There is one radiator size for a 6 cyl and one for all V8s, 302-460, not one of Ford's "better ideas". Reason is probably due to Ford dropping the 460 at the end of the 1979 production and then having to scramble in 1983 when it was brought back. since there is about 7" between the end of the water pump shaft and the radiator core, things are tight.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Electric Fans: Taurus, Mark VIII, Something else?

Administrator

Can someone please explain to me what the Super Cooling option was with these trucks?

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

85lebaront2

Re: Electric Fans: Taurus, Mark VIII, Something else?

Administrator

Jim, according to what I found on Darth's Marti report, it is an auxiliary transmission cooler. That wouldn't apply to Lil'Red unless he started as an automatic.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

grumpin

Re: Electric Fans: Taurus, Mark VIII, Something else?

Interesting, the Marti report for my former F250 says Trailer Tow Package.

The Marti for my 92 Bronco says, Trailer Towing Package, Heavy Duty Service Package and Super Engine Cooling.

And lot's of other options, this Bronco is loaded. That's what's really nice about getting a Marti report.

Dane
1986 F250HD SC XLT Lariat 4x4 460 C6-Sold
1992 Bronco XLT 4x4 351W E4OD
1998 GMC Sierra SLE K1500 350 4L60E
Arizona

Rembrant

Re: Electric Fans: Taurus, Mark VIII, Something else?

In reply to this post by Littlebeefy

Littlebeefy wrote

First off, thank you all for not turning this into a debate over electrical vs. mechanical fans.

If one were to use a single fan, like the 16" Taurus, could it simply be mounted off center to allow clearance for the water pump pulley or is that unrealistic? Again, assuming I'm making my own shroud. Anyone ever heard of that working?

Isn't your engine already offset? Or is that only with the small blocks? The small blocks are offset in the trucks about 2" to the passenger side.

My current truck is not a Bullnose, but I am running a Champion aluminum rad and 16" Spal low profile fan. It is dead center in the rad which is centered in the truck, but my engine is offset almost 2" to the passenger side. If my fan and water pump pulley lined up perfectly I'd only have maybe 1/4" room, but since they're offset from each other it feels like I have more room than I do.

1994 F150 4x2 Flareside. 5.0 w/MAF, 4R70W, stock.
1984 F150 4X2 Flareside. Mild 302 w/ 5spd. Sold.
1980 F150 4X4 Flareside. 300i6 w/ 5spd. Sold in 2021.
1980 F100 4X2 Flareside. 351w/2bbl w/NP435. Sold in 1995

85lebaront2

Re: Electric Fans: Taurus, Mark VIII, Something else?

Administrator

The 460s are offset to the right, probably the same 2".

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile