Cylinder head question

Lima Delta wrote

I am interested in upgrades that may make the engine more reliable or durable, but I figure sticking to something close to a stock configuration is probably best for truck-type performance. I mean, Ford must have known something about how to put together a truck engine when they built these things in the first place lol.

They did!

I love the 351, and as you may have noticed I have a little bit of regret in not swapping one into my truck. It's not that I don't love my 302, but I do have a little bit of 351 envy. I was to ever do anything with my engine again, I'd swap in a roller block 351 with the serpentine belt drive, and do some mild power adders, but leave the stock E7 heads on it. Carb, intake, ignition, and nice flowing exhaust. Done. Anything spent above and beyond that (for me) would be the point of diminishing returns.

A nice 600cfm 4bbl and dual plane intake, along with a mild cam and new timing set. Get a custom curved DSII distributor from Scotty at Parkland Performance, and better flowing exhaust and you'll be golden.

I got those specific specs from RockAuto. I’ve never physically measured the stock HO cam but have searched extensively on the specs and they seem to check out with everyone else that seems to know what they’re talking about. I have a HO cam sitting in the shop and if I can find a way to measure it I’d be happy to. I’ve also read that the HO cam is a marine grind cam and that makes sense. It’s a cam Ford already had and it made good power. They retarded the cam timing 2 degrees for smog and ran it. It is honestly a really good cam for a mild motor. It doesn’t stress the valve train, it works with stock cylinder heads, exhaust, etc. It works well because it was supposed to be there.

As far as the rest of the motor, I’ve disassembled two HO motors. The only differences being the cam, carb, and intake. Same dished pistons, same stroke, bore, heads, exhaust, etc.

There’s so much disinformation about the HO motors. Ive heard people say that they were high compression motors with a bunch of internal work, that they had 4 valve heads. Or the heads were comparable to the 4V heads found on a Cleveland. All wrong. It’s a stock smog 351w with a different cam, intake, and 600 cfm Holley carb. Oh, and the air cleaner, the HO sticker on it is worth a good 20 horse

I’d love to see some legit Ford documentation on the HO motors. They ran from 84-87. The last year being an 87 bricknose. I’ve seen pictures of one, it was pretty cool. I haven’t looked here on the forum yet but I’ve got some connections where I might be able to find some documentation.

Building mild truck motors is just about as exciting to me as building a race motor or some twin turbo street machine. I’m along for the ride!

That is exactly what did. Minus that I have an aftermarket efi and different ignition system now. This is when I first put it together. E7 heads, roller block 351w (which also came stock with a thinner and metric piston ring package), 5.0 HO roller cam, Weiand dual plane intake, Gaterman roller lifters (don’t mess with Melling or sealed power, their roller lifters are junk), and few other things.

Perfect truck motor. Took a buddy for a drive that daily drove a warmed over 12 valve Cummins at the time, his reaction - “this thing pulls!”. Tons of torque

The only documentation I'm aware of is in the dealer facts books.  Go to Documentation/Engine/Windsor and then click the 351W tab and then the Specifications tab.  Let that fill in and scroll down to the 1984 or later info.  There you'll find the factory specs awa the statement of "The new 5.8L (351) V-8 4V has additional features which incude: 17" air cleaner, staged four barrel carburetor, cast iron intake manifold with large passages, performance camshaft, Dura Spark Il ignition and dual exhaust."  (Yep, it says "incude".)

Thanks Gary! I knew there had to be something. I just took a look at that, that’s funny!

Jacob84 wrote

That is exactly what did. Minus that I have an aftermarket efi and different ignition system now. This is when I first put it together. E7 heads, roller block 351w (which also came stock with a thinner and metric piston ring package), 5.0 HO roller cam, Weiand dual plane intake, Gaterman roller lifters (don’t mess with Melling or sealed power, their roller lifters are junk), and few other things.

Perfect truck motor. Took a buddy for a drive that daily drove a warmed over 12 valve Cummins at the time, his reaction - “this thing pulls!”. Tons of torque

That's a really nice set-up for a truck. Nice work. Like I've said, if I could do it again I'd be leaning hard towards a very similar set-up.

Rembrant wrote

Lima Delta wrote

I am interested in upgrades that may make the engine more reliable or durable, but I figure sticking to something close to a stock configuration is probably best for truck-type performance. I mean, Ford must have known something about how to put together a truck engine when they built these things in the first place lol.

They did!

I love the 351, and as you may have noticed I have a little bit of regret in not swapping one into my truck. It's not that I don't love my 302, but I do have a little bit of 351 envy. I was to ever do anything with my engine again, I'd swap in a roller block 351 with the serpentine belt drive, and do some mild power adders, but leave the stock E7 heads on it. Carb, intake, ignition, and nice flowing exhaust. Done. Anything spent above and beyond that (for me) would be the point of diminishing returns.

A nice 600cfm 4bbl and dual plane intake, along with a mild cam and new timing set. Get a custom curved DSII distributor from Scotty at Parkland Performance, and better flowing exhaust and you'll be golden.

You built your 302 for the same reason I built mine up:  it is the engine we already had.

Besides, who needs a 351 when a 302 can do THIS:

Bout the same reason I am doing a 306 build for my truck, I have dealer AC and hate the thought of gutting a working AC system to redo it for a 351W with the factory style AC compressor.  Cant reuse what I have cause I still havent been able to find the extension brackets to make the Dealer AC fit the 351W engines so I am forced to stick with the 302.  Now if they can release an AC only box for our trucks so I can upgrade my AC part but keep the heater OE, then I may consider pulling the 302 for a 351W.

LARIAT 85 wrote

You built your 302 for the same reason I built mine up:  it is the engine we already had.

One hundred percent. When I say that I'd swap to a 351, they are just theoretical comments...lol. I DO like my little 302, and with only about 35k original miles on it at the time, I just could not get rid of it. I probably should have gotten a roller block blah blah, but the old flat tappet block was fine and it was stamped with the VIN, so I left it in the truck. It really does work very nice and it sounds nice too. I get a lot of compliments on it.

Rembrant wrote

LARIAT 85 wrote

You built your 302 for the same reason I built mine up:  it is the engine we already had.

One hundred percent. When I say that I'd swap to a 351, they are just theoretical comments...lol. I DO like my little 302, and with only about 35k original miles on it at the time, I just could not get rid of it. I probably should have gotten a roller block blah blah, but the old flat tappet block was fine and it was stamped with the VIN, so I left it in the truck. It really does work very nice and it sounds nice too. I get a lot of compliments on it.

If my engine was in the condition yours was in I would have probably just pulled it threw a $300 crank in it and put it back together.  But mine was rebuilt back in 1993 and from day one it used oil but didnt foul plugs out.  Drive it 70 miles on the highway at 65 - 70 mph youd have to add a quart of oil.  I switched from 10W30 to 20W50 and got it to around 200 miles before you have to add a quart of oil which was better.  I was informed that its most likely the valve guides which the shop that is now out of business didnt replace but simply knurled.

So I figured for myself it would be more effective to just build a whole new engine then once mine is out I will go through it rebuild it and put it up as a spare so I wont be 3 or 4 years without my truck if I have another major engine problem like this.

Did anybody watch the video?

Listen to that little 302 sing!  It sounded like a stock car when it was wound up and beat that Hemi at the end!

LARIAT 85 wrote

Did anybody watch the video?

Listen to that little 302 sing!  It sounded like a stock car when it was wound up and beat that Hemi at the end!

Video you posted is that of your truck?

Rusty_S85 wrote

LARIAT 85 wrote

Did anybody watch the video?

Listen to that little 302 sing!  It sounded like a stock car when it was wound up and beat that Hemi at the end!

Video you posted is that of your truck?

No.

LARIAT 85 wrote

Rusty_S85 wrote

LARIAT 85 wrote

Did anybody watch the video?

Listen to that little 302 sing!  It sounded like a stock car when it was wound up and beat that Hemi at the end!

Video you posted is that of your truck?

No.

Ah ok was going to say sounds good.

Im still trying to decide on exhaust size for mine since I still need to buy a aftermarket Y pipe.

Hi all,
Just wanted to update this thread and add a question.
I finally found some E7 heads here locally for a decent price, but it did take a bit of digging to find them. In any case just waiting now to get everything back from the machinist.

A question came up when talking to the machinist, and I need to make a decision fairly quick. My original plan was to go with stock, dished, low-compression pistons. This was mostly because the pistons and cylinders in the engine core looked good and I thought they'd just need cleaning up. One of the cylinders has some pitting though, so they're being bored out now. The machinist thinks I should go with flat top pistons, but I'm not sure I want to boost the compression...

I'll be using stock recurved DS2 ignition with this Edelbrock cam and an Edelbrock timing set: https://www.edelbrock.com/performer-plus-camshaft-kit-for-small-block-ford-351w-v8-2182.html

I want to use 87 octane gas; I'll be taking the factory retard out of the cam timing; the mechanical advance will be set up for an earlier advance; I'm leaning towards removing the EGR system; and the engine will be for towing and will be subjected to heavy loading.

So what do you think, will the extra compression using flat top pistons under those E7 heads have me flirting with pinging or detonation troubles considering my plans?

Lucas

I have 10:1 flat tops in my Bronco. That small thing by it's self raised my gas millage to 21 from 19. That one small change helped with low end power for take off while towing and yes, it still runs on 87 octain pump gas.

With everything you have done, it would be a flat shame to put stock 8.5:1 pistons back in it IMHO

Do you know how many cc's the dish is in those dished stock pistons?

Rembrant wrote

Do you know how many cc's the dish is in those dished stock pistons?

 No, I don't. I can't seem to find any solid references either. I've read anywhere from 13-20cc. The pistons that were in there weren't stock (they were 30 over), but had stock-looking dishes in them. Never thought o bother measuring since I had planned to reuse them.

Lucas

old55pete wrote

I have 10:1 flat tops in my Bronco. That small thing by it's self raised my gas millage to 21 from 19. That one small change helped with low end power for take off while towing and yes, it still runs on 87 octain pump gas.

With everything you have done, it would be a flat shame to put stock 8.5:1 pistons back in it IMHO

Well I'm tempted to go with the flat tops for sure. I was hoping to get some experience from people who have a similar set-up. Just to be clear, are you running a 351w in your Bronco? What cylinder heads are you using (stock cast iron, or aftermarket aluminum)?

Thanks,
Lucas

With the exception of the cam and pistions, My Bronco is a stock 5.0/ 302 EFI.  Not that it really means anything to this conversation, I build my own dirt track race engines and have been for the last 25 years so I do have some engine building experance.