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Converting to mass air on the 5.0

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85lebaront2

Re: Converting to mass air on the 5.0

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I don't think you can reach in from the back with the engine in the truck, especially not if it's air conditioned.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

ScubaSteve

Re: Converting to mass air on the 5.0

In reply to this post by ScubaSteve

So hear goes, my truck has a rebuilt engine from ATK part number DF46 that the previous owner installed. From what I see this is listed on their spec. sheet as for an 80-86 F150. It lists the engine as a non H.O. and without a roller cam. It also lists that the heads will be of the type D80E, E5AE or E7AE. I am currently trying to identify exactly what it is equipped with. From what I read the as long as I don't have the E6 heads I should be okay for flow but the D8 does have a very large chamber and smaller valves. I feel like this is one reason the engine doesn't idle or accelerate like I think it should. If the engine is of unknown cam, combustion chamber and cylinder head flow how can the MAP system possibly run it correctly. I was figuring that swapping to MAF would be fairly cheap and allow for the engine to adjust better to all the unknows. The engine only has 10K miles and runs well just not perfect. I will be working to try and Identify the block and the heads to see exactly what I'm working with. The block cast number is E0AE.

1986 F150, XLT Lariat, 5.8, AOD, 8.8 limited slip, 4.10 gears

85lebaront2

Re: Converting to mass air on the 5.0

Administrator

Steve, I am not positive on the casting number location on the Windsor heads, if you can find where the casting number is, hopefully at worst case under the valve covers then you will be one step ahead. You will need to add a speed sensor at the transmission and wire it in as the later EECs (1987 on) need a speed input to function correctly. While you are doing the changes, I would suggest relocation the TFI module to the left inner fender where Ford moved it in 1994.

On the TFI, depending on what year EEC you end up with, the TFI module changed internal and external circuitry in 1995. If you decide to stay with the MAP sensor, 1985.5 and 1986 are different that the later ones, don't know the exact difference, but the PN changed. EGR control system changed in 1987 also, from 2 solenoids to one, I think you have already looked at the pinouts, moving the wires is a bit of a pain but possible. I would leave the EEC and power relay where they are, they are pretty well protected there.

Good luck with it!

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Steve83

Re: Converting to mass air on the 5.0

Banned User

85lebaront2 wrote

I don't think you can reach in from the back with the engine in the truck...

I've sort of lost the context of this branch, but I think it was about getting a JY engine, in which case it would be accessible.

ScubaSteve wrote

If the engine is of unknown cam, combustion chamber and cylinder head flow how can the MAP system possibly run it correctly.

They knew those things when they designed the system & built the truck - that's how it can work right. So if you don't change anything - just repair/maintain it - it'll run like-new.

85lebaront2 wrote

...the later EECs (1987 on) need a speed input to function correctly.

"Need" is a strong word. My '95 ran perfectly for many years without any speed input. Only those with an electronic automatic (E4OD/4R70W) need a VSS; and then, only if the trans is actually connected to the EEC. If you swap transmissions, the EEC will work fine without a VSS.

85lebaront2 wrote

...TFI module to the left inner fender where Ford moved it in 1994.

1992

85lebaront2 wrote

...the TFI module changed internal and external circuitry in 1995.

'1993 1/2 on the 5.0L; '94 on the other smallblocks.

85lebaront2 wrote

I would leave the EEC and power relay where they are...

Regardless where they are, they should be converted to the later style relays (Bosch/ISO/Tyco).

ScubaSteve

Re: Converting to mass air on the 5.0

ScubaSteve wrote

If the engine is of unknown cam, combustion chamber and cylinder head flow how can the MAP system possibly run it correctly.

They knew those things when they designed the system & built the truck - that's how it can work right. So if you don't change anything - just repair/maintain it - it'll run like-new.

That's my problem, the engine has been replaced with a rebuilt one and I don't know how far from stock it actually is. It runs well but still idles rougher than I think it should. I don't want to go into the engine so I was considering a swap to MAF to help the computer compensate for the changes already made before I owned the truck.

Still trying to figure out the Quote function sorry if this is confusing.

1986 F150, XLT Lariat, 5.8, AOD, 8.8 limited slip, 4.10 gears

85lebaront2

Re: Converting to mass air on the 5.0

Administrator

In reply to this post by Steve83

The TFI change has to do more with the year of the EEC he uses, just like (FYI) the snubbing diodes for the electronic transmissions. The were moved from inside the transmission to internal on the EEC in 1995.

Relays, anything underhood needs a weatherproof connector, or be enclosed like the later PDCs are. If you don't eventually the terminals and their sockets will corrode. A good source is either the GM Bosch style with a shroud or a box from a later truck will work.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Steve83

Re: Converting to mass air on the 5.0

Banned User

85lebaront2 wrote

The TFI change has to do more with the year of the EEC...

The EECs changed the same years as the ICMs: '93 1/2 for 5.0Ls, and '94 for the others.

85lebaront2 wrote

Relays, anything underhood needs a weatherproof connector, or be enclosed...

Ford doesn't use weatherproof connectors or sealed enclosures for the underhood relays or fuses. They all have open bottoms so any water that gets in (and it WILL get in) can drain out even faster.

ctubutis

Re: Converting to mass air on the 5.0

Somebody on FTE kinda recently did one of those fiveology things, IIRC it didn't come out so well.

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1525770-code-41-solved.html

ScubaSteve

Re: Converting to mass air on the 5.0

When I read through the thread it looks like he was happy with the conversion or did I miss something?

1986 F150, XLT Lariat, 5.8, AOD, 8.8 limited slip, 4.10 gears

85lebaront2

Re: Converting to mass air on the 5.0

Administrator

Yes, seems once he got it sorted out it runs great. Fiveology sells kits but I essentially built my system using almost all stock Ford parts with the exception of the intake system, I had to fabricate an intake system since the factory MAF 460s are only slightly more common then hen's teeth. I started with a 1995 Lincoln Continental MAF as it is almost exactly the same as the 460 one, same physical size and mounting. I used a 5.0/5.8L MAF air filter and modified it to attach the 90 mm MAF to it, I used a pair of 4" expansion hoses for the connection to the wye going into the throttle body. Since the 460 throttle body is (a) larger than the 5.0/5.8L throttle bodies and (b) horizontal and (c) located roughly over the center of the engine. I had to get from the air filter to the throttle body over the air conditioning compressor. I fabricated an elbow from a piece of PVC pipe elbow and a piece of 4" thin wall conduit, connected the IAC hose and crankcase closure hose to the side of the conduit. I used another length of conduit from the air filter to the air inlet to the engine using the two silicone bellows so the engine motion wouldn't break anything. I updated it to a closer to stock system and finally managed to obtain a factory 460 MAF intake.

One thing very important, ALL air going into the engine must pass through the MAF, even the PCV closure hose has to connect behind it.
First air intake design:

Second air intake design:

Factory air intake system:

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: Converting to mass air on the 5.0

Administrator

I think Big Blue is gonna look just like the factory pic as Mark/Dyn Blin found hen's teeth.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI