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Cam Break-In is done! So good, so far!

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ReneH

Cam Break-In is done! So good, so far!

Hi together!

as far as my mobile got some power from the charger, I'll upload the rest of the videos to Youtube.

So currently everything seems to be fine. I've done the break-in for half an hour. No suspicious noises to hear. I've also done a test-drive without hearing or feeling anything that may come from the cam or the lifters. I will try to drive now 500 miles in a moderate way, before the holidays starts and do another oil and filter change.

So but there are some things left to ask:

1. If I set the gear into parking, the engine (and the car) shakes. Not heavy, but it shakes.
It doesn't do this in driving position, neutral or rear.

2. If I pull the dipstick of my C6 when the engine is warm, the mark is between the two points and not in the crosshatched area...
May this the reason for my point one?

3. The stearing is very soft. How can I check my stearing gearbox? As I have a power-steering pump, I have to run the car and check if I can turn the steering wheel whithout moving the wheels, as far as I know...

4. I have a radial noise while driving. Sounds like a silent "squik, squik, squik". Some Ideas?

5. If I'm not able to reach the 500 miles, before driving into holidays, I think I should anyway do the oil and filter change. I will fill the engine then without the comp cams zink additive, that I have used for break-in and re-filles for the first 500 miles.

6. I may have a small leakage at one or both exhaust mainfold seals...also if I have used aluminium layer seals and thi special Stage8 locking screws this time. As my mainfolds are made from stainless steel and haven't a very good fir to the heads, I don't have an idea how to fix it.

At the end I want to tell you, that I'm very astonished about the power of my 347 stroker. It fells mor like a Mustang as like a 2.5 tons truck. You only have to look a the pedal and the car goes forward as it wants to tell you "press the pedal to the floor"

You reach the 75 mph very fast. I have the feeling, the the tachometer won't go far enough. I have about 2,500 rpm at 75 mph with my C6...

So, that's it for today. I hope the cam and the lifters will survive the 500 miles periode and also som 100,000 miles more...

René's Profile

Bronco 1986 Ford Bronco XLT 302/347 stroker with 351W EEC-IV and 351W factory cam C6 gearbox. Jeep 1986 Jeep CJ7 256 I6 with T5 gearbox. Buggy 1972 HAZ Buggy 122 Ford Cologne V6
Baron 1994 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 183 V6 4-speed automatic

Gary Lewis

Re: Cam Break-In is done! So good, so far!

Administrator

Congratulations!!!!!! I'm so glad you don't have noises this time and happy you have so much POWER!

1. Shake: Check the vacuum with a vacuum gauge. It may be a bit low and the cam may be causing a bit of "lope". Is the idle fast enough?

2. Tranny: I don't think the level of the tranny fluid will cause the engine to shake.

3. Steering: With the engine off wiggle the wheel back and forth just enough to take the slack out and see where the play is. It may be in the steering box, rag joint, or other steering component.

4. Noise: I suspect that is a belt noise. Use a hose with one end to your ear and the other end stuck down where the noise might be coming from to pin point it.

5. I would put another can of additive in on an oil change, especially if you can't get to 500 miles. It will not hurt to have it in and may well hurt not to have it. You really, REALLY need to ensure the cam and lifters mate this time and I'd even consider using one of the oils with high ZDDP to prevent problems.

6. Go back and tighten the fasteners up on the exhaust after you've driven it some.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

ReneH

Re: Cam Break-In is done! So good, so far!

Hi Gary,

thanks!

1. I'll first check the idle speed. As I'm turning the idle screw much in the past, It may come from this side. What's your recommendation for idle rpm?
I'll also measure the vacuum, but I haven't had problems with it in the past.

2. Tranny: OK...but has the level to be in the crosshatched area when the engine is warm or between the two points?

3. OK, I'll check this.

4.. OK...but it only appears while driving...not to hear while ideling...I suspect a component of the drivetrain or the break-system.

5. You are right. better to be save. I'll order another can of the additive. I use 10W40 oil. Full-synthetic...so it may better to add the comp cams Zinc additive.

6. I'll do this. As using these special screws, it's a lot of afford to do. It's not so easy to get them tight, but after the break-in, the gaskets may shrunk, cause of the very high temperatures on the exhaust mainfolds. Also they are fully made from Aluminium. We'll see. But if this is the only thing to fix, I'm very happy!

mat in tn

Re: Cam Break-In is done! So good, so far!

I am very glad to read that you are having some success. all of your questions are already well answered and I think you have a good handle on this. the header leaks are not uncommon, and it was and old school thing to use double gaskets even though it did cause them to burn out a little sooner. the fact is that aftermarket headers rarely fit the openings well. another old trick is to cut the excess bridging out from in between the cylinders and this allowed a little more flex in the tubes and made it so that you were only tightening an individual flange rather than fighting the whole four pipe flange. but not really something to do in the truck.

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Cam Break-In is done! So good, so far!

Administrator

In reply to this post by ReneH

Rene, I suspect your squeaking noise is a driveshaft universal joint.
If you can get the rear wheels in the air with the parking brake off and the transmission in neutral (so nothing is binding) you might check each joint for any motion between the two sections.
Yes, I understand that you have a funky double cardan joint at the transfer case.

Otherwise a squeak at road speed could be a brake or wheel bearing, but most often a dry or worn universal joint.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

ReneH

Re: Cam Break-In is done! So good, so far!

Ok, thanks for the tips of you all.

Another question about the first 500miles run of the cam.

If I drive to work, I have only 2.5 miles single way...may it be more counterproductive to drive such short tracks in the beginning?

I can also let the car stay under the week and drive longer tracks on each Saturday...
But also these won't be longer than 37 miles single way.

Gary Lewis

Re: Cam Break-In is done! So good, so far!

Administrator

It would be better to take longer trips as the hardest part on the cam/lifters is at startup. And given how many problems you've had I'd err on the side of safety.

So I'd drive something else during the week if you can, and then drive it on the weekends.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ReneH

Re: Cam Break-In is done! So good, so far!

So, so I'll do it this way.

I have recorded some videos what I've noticed while driving today:

First how the engine sounds after 42 miles:
Video
Anyone hearing something suspicious?

Here I have filmed the steering column.
In my opinion it's the gearbox for sure.
Video1
Video2

I also have heard a sound like "tut, tut" when driving and accelerating...I think it's the same source like the whistling sound that I hear coming from the throttle body. This sound is also still there...a bit more silent, in my opinion. But this "tut, tut" is new to me
Video
It sounds like blowing over bottleneck...very silent in this video.
The squiking you hear coms from the loose door panels.

At least I have tried to record the shaking:
Video

85lebaront2

Re: Cam Break-In is done! So good, so far!

Administrator

This post was updated on .

Rene' on the shaking, does it seem like the front of the engine is bobbing up and down (more noticeable at low rpm)? If so this might help explain it.

A brief history of the small block (Windsor) Ford engines. The new light weight Ford V8, officially referred to as the Windsor engines for the plant they were made in was introduced in late 1961 for the 1962 model year powering a pair of "intermediate" body cars, the Ford Fairlane and Mercury Meteor. It was a 221 ci displacement, interesting the same as the original 1932 Flathead V8, bore and stroke were 3.2" X 2.87". These cars and engine were to compete with GMs BOP (Buick, Oldsmobile, Pontiac) compacts that were between the Corvair and full size cars. These had a 4 cyl (Tempest) or V6 (Special) as a base engine, and all 3 had an all aluminum V8 of 215 ci displacement (engine design was sold to BLMC and is still around as the Rover V8).

Ford needed a lighter V8 than the now aging Y-block and by use of a new thin wall casting process had the weight down close the the GM aluminum block engines. The original 211 was enlarged to 260 ci in mid 1962 by increasing the bore to 3.8" while still keeping the 2.87" stroke, in 1963 a bigger engine was brought out, by increasing the bore to 4". At this point the internal block geometry was at it's limit, in order to (a) better meet the US emission requirements and (b) improve low end torque (what these engines lacked vs the old Y-block 292) the stroke was increased to 3". This created a new problem, there wasn't enough room in the block for the needed amount of balance weight, so Ford put external balance weights, a block welded to the automatic transmission flex plate, or a cast on weight on the manual transmission flywheel with another cast into the hub portion of the harmonic balancer.

Due to their location, and the fact that the two weights are 180° apart, at idle the 302 engines appear to bob up and down with the rotation of the crank. They indeed are! The weights are trying to rotate the engine on it's pretty well centered mounts and Ford used a damper weight on the transmission extension housing on 2WD vehicles to help limit the rocking.

If in building your 347 stroker, the rotating assembly wasn't balanced or not correctly balanced it can cause a nasty vibration at certain rpm levels. You can also get a harmonic vibration, that will show up, then disappear going through the rpm band.

Sorry for the lengthy post, but hopefully it either lays your concern to rest or gives you something to look into.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

ReneH

Re: Cam Break-In is done! So good, so far!

Hi Bill,

first at all: Thanks for the lengthy post!
I like your deep explanations and the reviews in history of engines and their development over time.

I understand what you mean, but the shaking wasn't there before, if i remember correctly. And I've installed the stroker kit fr9m SCAT and the harmonic balancer for the 351W, that's according to the crankshaft, same for the flex plate.
Stroker kit

Balancer

Flex plate

And yes, it's only at low rpm. It's different when setting the transmission to parking or to neutral.

Do you have some recommendations about my other points? First of all about the steering column?

About the whistling and tut-tut sound: You don't have another fitting plenum with according throttle body in your stock for sale?

I've seen there are much aftermarket products from different brands...

85lebaront2

Re: Cam Break-In is done! So good, so far!

Administrator

Ok, so it is a little bit shorter stroke, 3.4" vs 3.5" for a 351, but uses a 4.030" bore to make it up. The Scat kit says it is set up for the 28 ounce imbalance which your flex plate has. What I don't see is the information on the balancer as far as imbalance, however, looking at the enlarged rear view, it is visible.

Do you have a tachometer on the Bronco? If so is it a steady reading at idle or is it "hunting"? If it goes away in gear, then it could be a weak cylinder. Are you still using the original firing order, or the 351 firing order? Original is 15426378, 351 is 13726548.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

ReneH

Re: Cam Break-In is done! So good, so far!

The balancer from SKP is only specified for the 351W, so it should have also 28 ounce.

You see the tachometer in my video, it's steady. No hunting.

I use the 351W firing order cause of the cam. I don't know that the 302 order is possible with the 351W cam...

I will change the plugs, maybe one of them hasn't the correct gap anymore, cause of the four times of unmount and remount...

ReneH

Re: Cam Break-In is done! So good, so far!

In reply to this post by ReneH

Have someone had already time to view the videos?

I need to know if you also think the steering gear is the problem, cause ot will take some time to get a new one...

Also some replies about the engine sounds after 42 miles were interesting for me, as not wanting to have installed a ticking bomb...

Gary Lewis

Re: Cam Break-In is done! So good, so far!

Administrator

In reply to this post by ReneH

I hadn't watched the videos but now have:

Engine: I think the engine sounds good. Don't hear anything untoward.

Steering Box: Hard to see in the first video but in the second it is easy to see that you have play.
However, what we can't see is if there is movement elsewhere in the steering linkage. The best test is for you to lay under the front of the vehicle, and with the engine off have someone turn the wheel like you did in the 2nd video. Just take up the slack. And you watch to see if the output of the steering box is moving with the input. If all or most of the slop is in the box then it is the culprit.

Sound: I don't hear a "tut tut" but do hear a fairly high-pitched noise that might be a rattle. Something loose?

Shake: Yes, I do see the shake on the steering wheel. It is very consistent. Can you tell if the engine is moving up/down or side/side? Can you tell if it is the front or rear of the engine?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: Cam Break-In is done! So good, so far!

Administrator

In reply to this post by ReneH

You have to use the cam firing order, it won't run right if at all wired for the 302 firing order. If the engine is bobbing up and down at the front, then that is probably caused by the weights on the balancer and flex plate, they are 180° apart and at lower rpm (idle) make the engine rock in it's mounts.

Steering, I agree with Gary, you need to determine what is loose and not moving things when the wheel is turned. If it is in the steering box, they can be adjusted.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: Cam Break-In is done! So good, so far!

Administrator

Bill - While I agree that a steering box can be adjusted it is my belief that they should not be adjusted. In my experience you can take slop out of the box, but that also takes the "feel" out of it.

But, since it doesn't cost anything I suggest that Rene give it a try if he determines that the box is the problem. Mark where the adjusting screw's slot is now, break the lock nut loose, give it maybe 1/16th of a turn, lock it down with the lock nut, and give it a drive. I think it'll take some slop out but also make the steering "numb".

And in any case I wouldn't go past 1/4 of a turn. At some point you are going to cause things to bind and potentially crack the box or hurt the internals.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

81-F150-Explorer

Re: Cam Break-In is done! So good, so far!

Some information about these steering gear boxes.

The gear that adjusts with the screw is like a v shaped cone.

What happens is the bottom of that gear that you adjust wears over time at the bottom, and when you try to adjust the lash, the top of the gear isn't worn so therefore it adjusts too tight immediately.

There is no adjusting the steering gear properly once it's worn to the point of slop.

--------------------------

I've heard (take with a grain of salt) you can remove that gear from the gear box, and either replace it, or grind the old gear true again making it into a proper v cone shape again. Then it can be adjusted to the proper lash again.

Never tried it before though.

Truck: 1981 F-150 Explorer / Engine: 300-6 California MCU Feedback System / Trans: T-18 - 4 speed / 2.75 Ford Rear Axle Open Diff.

ReneH

Re: Cam Break-In is done! So good, so far!

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Good evening!

I'm back from my first longer trip today. Everything seems to work like it should.

Here you can hear the engine after 132 miles. I can't hear anything abnormal:
Video

So but there are still some things to solve:

The engine runs still shaky in P and lower rpm range, close to idle. I haven't changed the plugs up to now.
I still can't isolate in which direction the engine moves while running shaky.
Ot also seems that the tachometer is moving up and down slightly white the gearbox is set to P. In neutral it's better

I also noticed a deep sound while driving that comes up while driving...nearly feels like the tires are flat from standing too long with low pressure. But I think they aren't.

I have put grease in the cross joints of the propeller shafts today without any change of one of my noticed noises.

The quik, quick, quick sound comes from the front breaks. It feels like the disc's are not plain anymore...but they seem relatively new to me. Maybe only cylinder is stuckig.

The whole doors and door panels making loud noises while driving...I have to fix this to better hear the engine.

Gary Lewis

Re: Cam Break-In is done! So good, so far!

Administrator

The engine sounds good.

But I'm guessing that you are straining your ears to hear ANYTHING that might be wrong, so you are probably hearing things that aren't there. Or have been there but you didn't notice them.

On the engine movement, can you put a pointer or straightedge on a body part and get it close to the engine to see the movement?

As for the brakes, don't baby them as you need to get the new pads to mate with the rotors. If you baby them you can get waves in the rotors that you can't get rid of.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ReneH

Re: Cam Break-In is done! So good, so far!

Hi Gary,

you might be right...as grown from the last experiences, I may handle the engine with kid gloves...as for my last rides I don't exceed 2,500 rpm (about 60 mph). Ok for about 5 minutes I've took the truck up to 3,000 rpm (about 70 mph), yesterday. Only with warn engine, for sure.
What I find very interesting is, that I haven't pushed the pedal more that a quarter of it's whole way down to the floor...it feels like the speedometer will end before reaching the maximum speed...

About the movement: I'll check this after changing the plugs within this week.
In this case: what do you think about starting the engine only for testing purposes (like the new plugs and engine movement), cause of the short time it will run for such a test? Or should I wait for such tests after reaching the 500 miles?

About the breaks: they have been changed by the former owner or the importer of the car. So I don't know how the new pads were treated...

As I still have to check the play in the steering column and I will need some spare parts, I'll may order also new rotors and pads...

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