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Big Brother is going 3G

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Gary Lewis

Re: Big Brother is going 3G

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Ok, I found this video that shows how they work. Pretty simple, so maybe I can get mine to work and use it as the load in testing. Will take that offline for now.

Back to our regularly-scheduled program...

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Big Brother is going 3G

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In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

I don't know what could go wrong.
I bought mine at Sears in the '70's

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

BigBrother-84

Re: Big Brother is going 3G

In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk

ArdWrknTrk wrote

"Plug 'n play"

Plug 'n play, these words are sweet music to my ears. Sounds gooood...

All joking aside, I am not going that way, since I already sent my ammeter to Bob McMullen (RCCInovations) to modify it as a Voltmeter. And I have a nice harness ready to plug (thanks to Gary).

BUT, maybe some other "Plug 'n Play Aficionados" as I am could find interesting this alternative

method.

Jeff / 1984 F350 Crew Cab 4x4/5.8L w351 4V/ T18/ D50 4.10 front/ 8' bed.
Restored 2019-2022.
Nicknamed «Big Brother 1984», due to its soooo-looong shape & nod to George Orwell's 1984 famous novel.

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Big Brother is going 3G

Administrator

PA Performance is another marketing firm....

They've got nothing you couldn't do yourself for 1/3 the cost.

Painless seems to have an exclusive on the distributor connector you've found, for their "DS-II conversion harness"

Back on FTE I was keeping shopping lists for all these "upgrades" that you could pull together for cheap.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

85lebaront2

Re: Big Brother is going 3G

Administrator

This post was updated on .

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Gary, if your Mopar product has an alternator, it is a direct reading one, but is more of a charge indicator than actual alternator output. As a result when removing the cluster from older Mopars, you definitely need to disconnect the battery.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

Gary Lewis

Re: Big Brother is going 3G

Administrator

Yep, Bill, it does have an alternator. And your comment reminds me that the police package for them bypassed the bukhead connector as it was a weak link to/from the ammeter.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

BigBrother-84

Re: Big Brother is going 3G

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Gary Lewis wrote

Haven't found the bit on how much power a v-belt pulley can handle, but have found these:
[…]
We might want to figure out how to actually clone that so it doesn't go away.

Gary, the way I do is quite simple:
• Copy the text+picts from the web page;
• Paste it in a new empty Word doc;
• If I want to get rid of the pictures hyperlink, I download each pict from the web page and use these to replace the “hyperlinked” ones in the Word doc;
• Make some final Word doc touches and layout adjustments;
• Save the Word and make also a PDF of it.

I’ll do it with the Web references you made here ans send the Word and PDF to you.

Jeff / 1984 F350 Crew Cab 4x4/5.8L w351 4V/ T18/ D50 4.10 front/ 8' bed.
Restored 2019-2022.
Nicknamed «Big Brother 1984», due to its soooo-looong shape & nod to George Orwell's 1984 famous novel.

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Big Brother is going 3G

Administrator

PDF is good, Microsoft links are ABSOLUTELY anenthema to me....

Look at the fun I'm having, finding "a washer"...

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: Big Brother is going 3G

Administrator

Jeff - There should be a way to copy the html and use that to paint the page w/o having to recreate it. But if I were to recreate it I'd just do it in Weebly. Just as you outlined but instead of pasting into Word I'd go straight to Weebly, and then Jim wouldn't have to download the Word doc. The page would open w/o that extra step.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

BigBrother-84

Re: Big Brother is going 3G

Yep, I tried several methods.
But i’m never satisfied about the final layout results, since an html page copy/paste always carry lot of irrelevant things (adds, hyperlinks, strange fonts, etc).

I know my method is a bit complicated, but I have full control, and the Word (and PDF) resulting documents are straight clean.

How do you say… “stubborn”?

Jeff / 1984 F350 Crew Cab 4x4/5.8L w351 4V/ T18/ D50 4.10 front/ 8' bed.
Restored 2019-2022.
Nicknamed «Big Brother 1984», due to its soooo-looong shape & nod to George Orwell's 1984 famous novel.

BigBrother-84

Re: Big Brother is going 3G

This post was updated on .

In reply to this post by BigBrother-84

Question:

From the page «3G Alternator Conversion/Ammeter & Voltmeter»:

"However, you will need to re-wire in order to use it. And, you need to put a relay in the circuit somewhere as the voltmeter pulls ~80ma and w/o the relay, which should be pulled in by a key-on voltage, the voltmeter will be "on" 24x7, which will eventually drain the battery."

Need more detail please. What relay? Where to install it?

Jeff / 1984 F350 Crew Cab 4x4/5.8L w351 4V/ T18/ D50 4.10 front/ 8' bed.
Restored 2019-2022.
Nicknamed «Big Brother 1984», due to its soooo-looong shape & nod to George Orwell's 1984 famous novel.

Gary Lewis

Re: Big Brother is going 3G

Administrator

Jeff - You shouldn't combine what we discussed in the Rethinking The 3G Conversion Pages/Process thread and what's on the 3G Conversion page. The thread is, as its title says, a rethink of how to wire a 3G. The 3G Conversion page is old-think.

The reason for the relay was because I wanted to know the actual battery voltage rather than the voltage in the cab - and those are two different things. So I wanted the voltmeter to be connected to the circuitry as close to the battery as is possible, and that required a relay to turn power off to the volt meter when the key was off.

But the new-think is that people don't really care exactly what the voltage is, so tap into a source of switched power because then you won't need the relay. (After all, there are no numbers on the Rocketman voltmeters, so they cannot be terribly accurate.)

Given that we decided to wire it as shown below, and the LG/R wire comes from the ignition switch and provides both power to the alternator to bootstrap it in but also to the voltmeter. In other words, no relay is needed.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

BigBrother-84

Re: Big Brother is going 3G

Gary Lewis wrote

The 3G Conversion page is old-think.

Thanks Gary. Preparing the surgery, I am reading all documents I can find here and there, and I begin to see clear.
But sometimes I can fall on irrelevant or old info.

Don’t worry, I won’t go on before summarize the process here and get my mentors imprimatur.
For the moment, I’m still in the theory, measurements and products analysis.

Gary Lewis wrote

But the new-think is that people don't really care exactly what the voltage is, so tap into a source of switched power because then you won't need the relay.

Ok, so this will meet RCCIndustries installation instructions, I mean the LG/R wire coming from the ignition switch is a switched power source?

Jeff / 1984 F350 Crew Cab 4x4/5.8L w351 4V/ T18/ D50 4.10 front/ 8' bed.
Restored 2019-2022.
Nicknamed «Big Brother 1984», due to its soooo-looong shape & nod to George Orwell's 1984 famous novel.

Gary Lewis

Re: Big Brother is going 3G

Administrator

Yes, the LG/R wire comes from the ignition switch and is hot in Start or Run. So you don't need the relay.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Big Brother is going 3G

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In reply to this post by BigBrother-84

"BigBrother-84 wrote

Danger, danger!

Danger, Will Robinson!!!

Jeff, this cracks me up!

HTH can you say you're too old for a funk band that was at their best in the '70's???

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

BigBrother-84

Re: Big Brother is going 3G

ArdWrknTrk wrote

HTH can you say you're too old for a funk band that was at their best in the '70's???

Maybe just few years difference can explain.
In early 70’s I was still playing with my GI Joe’s.
At home Dad was listening at French singers (Aznavour, Brel) plus couple of crooners.
And since I was living far from school, I was not exposed to “modern music” (schools we silent back in time, no Walk-Man, no permanently EarPods plugged).
Just one TV channel at home, maybe two radio stations.
That could explains my “70’s black hole”.

Certainly not because of acid…
Maybe my brain is just too fragile for that heavy style?

Jeff / 1984 F350 Crew Cab 4x4/5.8L w351 4V/ T18/ D50 4.10 front/ 8' bed.
Restored 2019-2022.
Nicknamed «Big Brother 1984», due to its soooo-looong shape & nod to George Orwell's 1984 famous novel.

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Big Brother is going 3G

Administrator

I mean t say that George Clinton i(and BOTH h bands were fuel by psychedelics.

In the '70's the P-Funk Mothership would open Frank Zappa' annual Halloween show (typically at the Palladium)

You cannot begin to imagine the costumes fans wore to those shows!

Frank may have written outrageous lyrics but he was an amazing composer who only bothered with excellent musicians

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

BigBrother-84

Re: Big Brother is going 3G

Ok, I made measurements of Big Brother's 1G alternator:

• There is 1" free between the engine block and the alt, on the side and on the rear.
• Presently, the 1G lower bolt is at the maximum of the bracket length.
• I was surprised, but the lower alt ear is 3/4" thick. So maybe no bracket modification? Goal is to keep V-Belt, well aligned...

I'm ready to find a 3G, being sure it will fit.

Here are pictures of Big Bro's 1G and belts, plus measurements.

Jeff / 1984 F350 Crew Cab 4x4/5.8L w351 4V/ T18/ D50 4.10 front/ 8' bed.
Restored 2019-2022.
Nicknamed «Big Brother 1984», due to its soooo-looong shape & nod to George Orwell's 1984 famous novel.

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Big Brother is going 3G

Administrator

So, you're going with the small diameter (135mm)95A 3G, that fits the same as your 1G?

You should be okay, but be sure to check the plane of the belt (pulleys)

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

BigBrother-84

Re: Big Brother is going 3G

ArdWrknTrk wrote

So, you're going with the small diameter (135mm)95A 3G, that fits the same as your 1G?

Well, Jim, I’ve not make my choice yet.
In fact, the main goal is to keep the V-Belt layout, with the higher amperage it can support.

I read couple of testimonials here and there about guys who upgraded to 130A (!) and single v-belt.
Majority of them has belt slipping at startup, no more issue.
There was a guy who installed a custom tensioner:

So, I am wondering if this higher AMP squealing can be controlled only with LRC Voltage Regulator.
Or maybe LRC combined with a high quality single V-belt?

If not enough, can a double V-belt pulley be installed? If so, what is the belt routing, longer water pump/power steering belt going around the first V-belt notch, and the second one same routing as the original 1G?

Jeff / 1984 F350 Crew Cab 4x4/5.8L w351 4V/ T18/ D50 4.10 front/ 8' bed.
Restored 2019-2022.
Nicknamed «Big Brother 1984», due to its soooo-looong shape & nod to George Orwell's 1984 famous novel.

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