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Bad water pump?

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nilknarf007

Bad water pump?

I have a loud screaming noise coming from the front of the engine. No warning, just cranked it today and there it was. And it is loud. I took off the alternator belt - screaming still there. Took off the power steering pump belt - still there. The fan spins while the engine is off, so I don't think that's the problem.

Could it be the water pump? There is a drag on the engine, so it won't idle. Oil is clear, so is the coolant. I'm stumped.

I have the 300 i6, stock engine, with some upgrades to intake and ignition. Also, smog stuff has been deleted. Any help would be appreciated.

Rob F.
1985 4x4 4.9 i6 NP435, HEI distributor, smog delete, Clifford intake, twin Weber 38/38s.

Gary Lewis

Re: Bad water pump?

Administrator

Do you still have a belt on the water pump when it squeals? If so, I'd take that off and see if the squeal goes away. It won't hurt to run the engine just long enough to test w/o a belt on the water pump.

If the squeal is there with the belt on and goes away with it off then it is the water pump.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

mat in tn

Re: Bad water pump?

In reply to this post by nilknarf007

Well it sounds like you are already starting to do this but remove all belts . Start the engine to check.
You can add one belt at a time til the issue comes back. That may not be needed if you find a stuck item before hand

nilknarf007

Re: Bad water pump?

Removed all the belts. Still Screaming. Guess it's worse than a water pump.

Rob F.
1985 4x4 4.9 i6 NP435, HEI distributor, smog delete, Clifford intake, twin Weber 38/38s.

Gary Lewis

Re: Bad water pump?

Administrator

Yikes! It squeals with no belts? That doesn't bode well. Do you show oil pressure?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

mat in tn

Re: Bad water pump?

Check oil!!!
I had an odd thing once that was making me pull the belt off of a 5.0. I had plugged the pcv intake to test crank case pressure with an aftermkt intake manifold. The engine pulled 23” water column at idle but blew oil out the dipstick under load. I tracked the squeal down to the front crank seal so while squealing i opened the oil fill cap on a hunch. Squeal went away.
The point is that when we “improve “ things we sometimes defeat the manufaturers solutions to problems by doing so. Then mystery solving begins.

nilknarf007

Re: Bad water pump?

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Good oil pressure. I'm just confused how something could go south that quick with no symptoms. Drove it all day yesterday, and as usual, never got the motor above 2500. It's not like I hot rod the thing.

Rob F.
1985 4x4 4.9 i6 NP435, HEI distributor, smog delete, Clifford intake, twin Weber 38/38s.

nilknarf007

Re: Bad water pump?

In reply to this post by mat in tn

The only thing I've done recently is replace the intake/exhaust gasket. Didn't touch anything else, and checked to see if I messed up anything with the PCV - nope, everything is just as it was before.

Rob F.
1985 4x4 4.9 i6 NP435, HEI distributor, smog delete, Clifford intake, twin Weber 38/38s.

Bruce moose4x4

Re: Bad water pump?

Squeal, won't idle, replaced intake exhaust gasket.
Possible vacuum leak on intake side????? are the bolts tight? Could of loosened up during several heat cycles? Can of carb cleaner spray around intake while running. See if smoothes out idle.

Bruce aka Moose--1978 F250 LWB Flareside, Dana 60's w/ 4:10's, 460, c6

StraightSix

Re: Bad water pump?

In reply to this post by nilknarf007

Nilknarf,
Sorry about your trouble with the engine. Perhaps a video with audio might trigger a memory in someones head where they have seen this before? Is this right after reinstalling the engine/transmission? Are you sure its not in the rear? Sorry to ask that. I had a box of oversized sockets in my back seat in my truck, two were ringing off eachother like a bell. I thought it was a front wheel.. it can be deceiving. Good luck!

1984 Bronco, mild built 300-6, Np435, 3.55 gears, 8.8 rear with Eaton TrueTrac, D44 TTB front, 31" tires, Duraspark II, Offy C, EFI manifolds, Holley 390, No AC, 3G alternator, front receiver

nilknarf007

Re: Bad water pump?

Will post a video tomorrow. I did a transmission rebuild about a month ago, but it has been running fine. I had someone crank the engine so I could see and hear what was going on. Definitely in the front of the engine. Transmission in neutral. I won't attempt to drive it with that noise. Definitely afraid to run it long enough to get it up to temperature.

Rob F.
1985 4x4 4.9 i6 NP435, HEI distributor, smog delete, Clifford intake, twin Weber 38/38s.

nilknarf007

Re: Bad water pump?

Here is a link to a video I shot that will give you an idea about the noise.
https://youtu.be/VEl2f88OBiE

Rob F.
1985 4x4 4.9 i6 NP435, HEI distributor, smog delete, Clifford intake, twin Weber 38/38s.

StraightSix

Re: Bad water pump?

Wow.

So, an oil change is pretty cheap.. if you catch the oil in a clean pan it might show something. I have been known to dangle an old cpu magnet on a piece of fishing line in oil to look for ferrous materials.

Would you say it changes with rpm?

Do you know what your timing gear material is? Perhaps something has happened to the timing gears? Or the cam retainer plate? Im not positive, but you might be able to check all of that with the block in the truck by removing the timing cover.

Oil pressure? Do you have a mechanical gage? My buddy had been pestering me to install one for a long time and I kept putting it off, but about $50 at oriellys and you could have a full mechanical gage plumbed in for peace of mind

1984 Bronco, mild built 300-6, Np435, 3.55 gears, 8.8 rear with Eaton TrueTrac, D44 TTB front, 31" tires, Duraspark II, Offy C, EFI manifolds, Holley 390, No AC, 3G alternator, front receiver

StraightSix

Re: Bad water pump?

Have you tried rolling the engine over by hand with a socket on the harmonic balancer bolt head? Maybe you would feel something odd. Im not sure what sound (if any) it might make if the starter gear didnt pull back in.

1984 Bronco, mild built 300-6, Np435, 3.55 gears, 8.8 rear with Eaton TrueTrac, D44 TTB front, 31" tires, Duraspark II, Offy C, EFI manifolds, Holley 390, No AC, 3G alternator, front receiver

nilknarf007

Re: Bad water pump?

Haven't drained the oil. That will be the next thing I check. I just have a stock oil pressure gage, and it is showing good oil pressure. I don't really have any reason to think it wrong. I assume my timing gear is the fiber-composite gear and not the metal one because it's not an industrial engine. I guess it could have something to do with that.

Rolling the motor over by hand - I do feel something odd. It's not resistance really, but it is an odd feeling. And, I hear what could become a scream at 1000 rpm. It's not a squeak, but it definitely something out of the ordinary.

I haven't had any piston slap, but possibly mild rod knock? It always went away when it got close to operating temperature, so I probably have to adjust the rocker arms.

But this problem doesn't appear to have anything to do with that.

Rob F.
1985 4x4 4.9 i6 NP435, HEI distributor, smog delete, Clifford intake, twin Weber 38/38s.

Gary Lewis

Re: Bad water pump?

Administrator

In reply to this post by nilknarf007

That may be caused by a vacuum leak. I've seen/heard that before on some engine.

Check your carb/manifold bolts, and check the manifold/engine bolts. Or, spray carb or brake cleaner around those spots with the engine running. When you find the leak the engine will speed up.

Another approach is the smoke test. That might actually be the best approach as it doesn't require the engine to be running, and if I'm wrong running the engine might damage something. Still, I think it is a vacuum leak.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

mat in tn

Re: Bad water pump?

With the vacuum leak idea i would go ahead and set up a vac gauge so you can read vacuum as soon as you start it again. I know it may seem weird but you might spray silicone lube onto the front seal. Although as bad as that squeals i would think the seal is shot by now if that were it

mat in tn

Re: Bad water pump?

I listened again. Its a vacuum leak!!!! Check carb mounts. Then check the intake areas

Gsmblue

Re: Bad water pump?

I had a leak on my 351w intake manifold and that was shrill.

I poured water over the intake gasket areas and the sound went away, as the water temporarily filled the leaky bits.

Here is how it sounded.

https://youtu.be/smOwPlyDeDc

Pulled the intake, cleaned up, new felpro gaskets and all was well.

1985.5 F-150 XL Explorer standard cab 5.0 EFI AOD 4x4
Daily Driver. We call her Eunice the Ute.

1982 Bronco XLT Lariat 351W AOD 4x4
Code name Esperanza, or Espy to her friends. Please see my Project thread for the blow by blow.

1984 F-350 XL Centurion crew cab 460 T19 4x4
"Eylza Dual-little"

Gsmblue

Re: Bad water pump?

Sorry, to be clear, I am supporting the idea that you have some kind of vacuum leak. Be it on a line, intake or carb Mount. Air is being sucked in somewhere that it shouldn’t be.