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'95 FDM for your '85 gauge

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Tarheel Blue

'95 FDM for your '85 gauge

This post was updated on .

There are tons of threads on lots of forums that discuss the process of doing various modifications to our trucks that have always interested me like;
adding a larger aft tank and/ or converting to EFI.
I'm not here to comment on the various methods discussed or the quality of the way that each individual thinks it should be accomplished. You decide for yourself, just as I did.

What this thread is about is the overall concern in each of those methods that drives folks to take one path or another.

The later model senders aren't compatible with the Bullnose gauges. While I applaud Gary and others for the Aurdino solution, it just didn't fall into what I wanted to do, so I decided to try and find a different way.

I started buy purchasing the INDIVIDUAL components,
* Hanger - Top plate with the tubes and wire connector that the tank lock ring holds in place
* Bosch 67000 FDM
* Bronco sender for the 33 gal tank
I assembled them and did a mock up of how it set in the tank in order to see float travel and to compare it to the NOS '85 hanger and sender that I had purchased years ago.

Sorry that I didn't take any pics in the process but it became obvious to me that all that needed to be done was to find a way to attach the sender from the '85 unit to the '95 bracket. The plastic body that the float arm attaches to is IDENTICAL to both senders. It is only the board inside that is different.
So, after turning the plate around that the '95 sender attaches to and cutting a small rectangular slot to accommodate the legs on the '85 sender, the plate was then reattached to the hanger assembly. I checked the travel of the float, had to make a couple of small tweaks to the "angle of the dangle" on the float rod, but all looks good to me!

This now allows me to have an new in-tank, high pressure pump AND a functional gauge in my dash.

Next step is to wire it into the harness on the truck and see what happens.

Kurt K
'85 XLT Lariat, 4.9L, NP435, 3.08LS, DSII, 130a 3G, PMGR, '87 MC, P235/R75

Gary Lewis

Re: 95 sender for your '85 gauge

Administrator

I like it! And I seriously considered that approach myself. I had all of the parts laying on the bench, and the only thing that stopped me was the realization that when something in it fails after I'm no longer able to make the repair my offspring would have problems. Had they been the type that would take it in stride I've have done it, but as they aren't I didn't.

As for the Arduino solution, I've not done that - yet. Instead I used a Meter Match to interface the later sender to the Bullnose gauge. And I'm here to tell you that the Meter Match works, but isn't ideal. My gauge falls rapidly and then slows down as you get close to empty. It isn't ideal at all, but it works.

Your solution should give much better readout and will be something that can be repaired down the road. So I really like it.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

ArdWrknTrk

Re: 95 sender for your '85 gauge

Administrator

Gary, there are two intermediate set points available in the Meter Match programming.

If you want it to accuractly reflect available fuel perhaps you should run the tank dry then add a gallon and set empty.
Add six gallons and set 1/3, add another six set 2/3, and the final six gallons would have you at full.

I know you're up to the challenge!

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: 95 sender for your '85 gauge

Administrator

Jim - Have you done that? I used one of the intermediate set points and it didn't help. Maybe I need to try your approach?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: 95 sender for your '85 gauge

Administrator

Actually I've lost both my fuel gauge and water temp (both bottom gauges)
These Bricknose gauges are paired top and bottom, so it's not that I can change them individually.

I've reached a point where I can't really do anything more with this truck.
Even diagnosing and cleaning out the carb was WAY more challenging than it should have been.

Just that I know there were instructions for setting mid-points, not that I was able to accomplish it.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: 95 sender for your '85 gauge

Administrator

Ok, thanks. I may play with it more.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ratdude747

Re: 95 sender for your '85 gauge

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Gary Lewis wrote

And I'm here to tell you that the Meter Match works, but isn't ideal. My gauge falls rapidly and then slows down as you get close to empty. It isn't ideal at all, but it works.

Your solution should give much better readout and will be something that can be repaired down the road. So I really like it.

Maybe not. My Fuel gauge also drops fast to 1/4, hangs in that range for a very, very long time, then when it hits E you better fill up fast (as below E, you tend to run out of gas in drive thru lines

). Sounds like with meter match you got a realistic experience if not an ideal one

1984 F150: 300 L6, AOD, RWD. EEC IV / TFI, Feedback Carter YFA Carb. Stock everything but radio (for now).

Gary Lewis

Re: 95 sender for your '85 gauge

Administrator

With my Meter Match you'll be so close to E by 100 miles that a quick glance says it is time to switch to the other tank. But on closer inspection there is still a bit of white showing. And if you are on the highway it'll go another 90 miles as the tank holds 19 gallons and it gets 10+ MPG. So if you like driving on E for ~50% of your miles then it is ideal.

That's not my idea of a realistic experience.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Tarheel Blue

Re: 95 sender for your '85 gauge

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Thanks Gary
I had read lots of comments about the various times that gauges will stay on full for miles and then start to rapidly cascade towards empty.
Keeping that in mind led me to numerous tweets of the float rod in order to have a smooth progression from 73 ohms to 8 ohms

I like the fact that all parts are “off the shelf”, just not necessarily the same year

Kurt K
'85 XLT Lariat, 4.9L, NP435, 3.08LS, DSII, 130a 3G, PMGR, '87 MC, P235/R75

Gary Lewis

Re: 95 sender for your '85 gauge

Administrator

I hope you achieve that smooth progression. But IIRC, Ford says that 22 ohms should give a center reading on the gauges. IOW, the 10 to 72 ohms apparently isn't linear.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Tarheel Blue

Re: 95 sender for your '85 gauge

I had read that also, about 22 ohms being +/- 1/2 tank and The Fluke indeed reads 22 @ mid travel of the sweep. So I guess the term linear isn't quite right.
What I don't understand is the reading of 8 ohms @ Full. I thought it would go to 0?
Maybe with it staying @ 8, it will keep the gauge from swinging too far to the right.

Kurt K
'85 XLT Lariat, 4.9L, NP435, 3.08LS, DSII, 130a 3G, PMGR, '87 MC, P235/R75

Gary Lewis

Re: 95 sender for your '85 gauge

Administrator

The way the system works if the resistance of the senders went to zero it would pull too much current through the circuit and fry something.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

FuzzFace2

Re: 95 sender for your '85 gauge

In reply to this post by Tarheel Blue

I seen Kurt's pump /sender in person yesterday and got to tell you it looks factory and should work as good.
He is using this EFI pump assy. because down the road he wants to go EFI and no need to go back in and redo this if he is there now. He also wants it to work with the Carter YFA carb till he dose the EFI swap.

He is working on mounting the Bronco tank and rounding up cross members to do so.
Being the tank is shorter front / rear than the pick up tanks he cant use pick up parts with out modding them.

I think he is looking for the front tank cross member for a rear mounted pick up truck tank as that looks to be able to be used.
The rear cross member I think a angle iron drilled and bolted to the frame to mount the rear of the Bronco tank should work.

As said it is all factory parts just not from the same years and I dint have a problem with that.
Then again by the time anyone gets my truck or any of ours what parts will they be able to get for them?
My guess they will have to "rig up" something to make it work.

As for "linear" when I added the custom gauges to my 70 AMC Javelin that was the issue with the fuel gauge sender. IIRC they had the ohm readings for the sender and I had them set the gauge to read full / half / empty with 5 gallons in the tank.
I was more worried about the empty reading than the others and so what if they did not track right I just did not want to run out of gas with the gauge showing 1/4 tank.

I will be following this set up.
Dave ----

Dave G.
81 F100 flare side 300 six / AA OD / NP435 / 2.75 gear
http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/1980-Ford-F100?page=1
81 F100 style side 300 six/SROD parts truck -RIP
http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/1981-Ford-F100

Gary Lewis

Re: 95 sender for your '85 gauge

Administrator

Just as an FYI, I'm running the EFI fuel delivery modules (FDM's) on Big Blue with a carb, an Edelbrock to be exact. And I can tell you that one fuel pressure regulator, even a return-style, isn't enough to tame the pressure. I had to double-head regulators, with a return-style first and a dead-head style second. You can see that in this post in Big Blue's Transformation.

The issue was that with just the return-style regulator in place the fuel pressure would pulse. And the pressure during the pulses was more than I think the carb would handle. You can see a video of the pulsing here: https://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/Big-Blue-s-Transformation-tp28014p73671.html.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

FuzzFace2

Re: 95 sender for your '85 gauge

Gary Lewis wrote

Just as an FYI, I'm running the EFI fuel delivery modules (FDM's) on Big Blue with a carb, an Edelbrock to be exact. And I can tell you that one fuel pressure regulator, even a return-style, isn't enough to tame the pressure. I had to double-head regulators, with a return-style first and a dead-head style second. You can see that in this post in Big Blue's Transformation.

The issue was that with just the return-style regulator in place the fuel pressure would pulse. And the pressure during the pulses was more than I think the carb would handle. You can see a video of the pulsing here: https://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/Big-Blue-s-Transformation-tp28014p73671.html.

Gary that is good to know as we did talk a little about this and Kurt was thinking just 1 regulator with a return would work.
I bet he will read this and change his plans as needed.

What is your plans when you go to EFI? Not run the regulators as I don't think they would be needed?
Dave ----

Gary Lewis

Re: 95 sender for your '85 gauge

Administrator

I do hope he will read it. And go watch the videos. But two regulators tamed it and I have several thousand problem-free miles on that setup.

As for EFI, my plans are to install that this winter. And I designed the regulator setup to plug directly into the supply and return lines, so those lines will unplug from the regulators and plug directly into the EFI fuel rails.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

FuzzFace2

Re: 95 sender for your '85 gauge

Gary Lewis wrote

I do hope he will read it. And go watch the videos. But two regulators tamed it and I have several thousand problem-free miles on that setup.

As for EFI, my plans are to install that this winter. And I designed the regulator setup to plug directly into the supply and return lines, so those lines will unplug from the regulators and plug directly into the EFI fuel rails.

That is the same thing he is looking to do.
If you did not post that he is reading your mind

Dave ----

Gary Lewis

Re: 95 sender for your '85 gauge

Administrator

Starting up a new lash-up with a carb is good as it simplifies things. Then you know the fuel system works and the engine runs, so you can move on to EFI and know that if you have problems it is with the latter. (Or, you just get tired of working on the truck and want to drive it so you slap a carb on and go.

)

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile