4160 carb install and tune (for Mike)

I'm going to try and document what I went through to install and adjust the Holley 80508 on my truck today.

Mostly went very well, but I had my throttle cable bracket set for the AVS and my distributor didn't want to budge!

I guess it's been a long time since I had to touch it.
Yay, DuraSpark!  

I'm doing this from my phone and uploading pics is really slow without WiFi, so it's going to take a while, and a few posts.

Let's get started.
It is 22F in the barn this morning.
So I feel I can set the choke as is.
I'm using a #35 drill bit shank (exactly .110")







I swapped the OEM Motorcraft choke coil on. It uses ~7V from the stator and a single bullet connector.





Now it's time to remove the misbehaving AVS and a new gasket in prep for the Holley.
Notice how the secondary bores are opened up to 1 3/4 in my non-EGR spacer.







The Eddy only has 1 7/16 primaries.
Good for booster signal, bad for flow.



(I need to charge my phone and get something warm in me.

Be back in a bit...

I'm hanging on tenterhooks!  Where'd you go, Jim?  I'm following along - now that we got rid of all that white stuff.  

After setting the choke when absolutely cold I made some reference marks by scratching some lines in my choke cap to match the cast in indicator (that I've blackened with marker)



My 4160 has a red fast idle cam and a yellow accelerator cam in the middle screw position.





When mounted I had to check for full throttle throw by making sure the cable was not holding it open at rest, and that it would be fully open with the pedal on the floor.

At first the cable was adjusted for the Edelbrock and is too short to close and coil bound before the throttle is fully open.



I moved the ball connection on the throttle arm closer to the pivot.
This gives me less leverage, but more throw.

The idle mixture screws are on each side of the front metering block.





With the PCV and fuel lines hooked up and the vacuum lines that would go to my air cleaner taped over, it's time to try and start this pig.
I fill the front and rear float bowls with TruFuel through their vents with a big syringe.



I have to get the engine to high idle while the choke is on and the fast idle cam in place.
When it starts I check the float levels are good and I try to set the throttle stop screw for about 1,600 rpm.



Then it's time to throw the air cleaner back on and fully warm up the engine.

I do have a few jets to choose from, but I've run this carb before so the jets should be good.



I don't have a wide band oxygen sensor so any tuning is by vacuum and the unfortunate "butt dyno"

This carburetor also has a quick change cover for the secondary spring. (but, again, this isn't it's first rodeo)
I just want it to pull hard without stumbling because the rear bores open too quickly.

Time to go for a ride!  😁

THE BEAST IS BACK!!!!   😤

My truck has been sluggish and hard to start because the Edelbrock's  accelerator pump isn't working.

But now it spins tires, pushes me back in the seat and pulls right through 5,500 rpm on the highway.

Now that it's warmed up we need to set the idle mixture, distributor advance and curb idle.

I'm going to use my Mity-Vac pump to read vacuum. (because I'm a mess and can't find the 'proper' vacuum gauge)

I turn the screws on each side 1/4 turn at a time. Just to where it doesn't seem to be making the idle any higher.



My vacuum gauge was reading about 15" when I started. It's up to 21 now.



In preparation, I marked my harmonic damper with chalk rubbed in to the graduations.



I have a distributor wrench



But I haven't needed it in many years.

My distributor is totally stuck.
It takes me the better part of an hour with a torch, PB Blaster, a lump hammer & brass drift and a brand new (sharp teeth) pair of Channellocks with a cheater pipe on them to work it loose..



You can't see past the blur but almost 20° btdc explains why my truck doesn't like regular fuel.
Bringing the timing back to 15° should free up a bunch of power too.
I have a narrow slot for mechanical advance in my dizzy.

Though I'm surprised it has been running right at 195°F every time I check the water neck.

With the mixture and timing set it is time to reset the curb idle rpms.
Some timing lights have a handy tach built in.

I go for 750, but if you have an automatic it's best to chock the wheels and set it in drive to whatever the sticker calls for.

I posted this to try and help Cobra adjust the new 0-80457-s in his RV.

I know his carb doesn't have adjustable floats or a fuel log on the right, but the basics are the same for all 4160's.
It's not a comprehensive guide to tuning or Holley's.

If anyone has comments, criticism or something to add please do so.
You will help Cobra and I can learn too.

If there is anything I should have pictured I can go back and edit it in.

Well done, Jim!  It really should help Cobra, although you should put a link to here in his other thread as I'm not sure he will see it otherwise.

As for what else to add, I don't see anything.  However, he probably needs further discussion about the distributor.  And while the title of this thread is 4160 Carb you did touch on initial and centrifugal advance.  Would it be good to explain that further here or in his other thread?

That's a good idea Gary!💡
Consider it done.

I guess the "tune" in the title was meant to include the steps Cobra showed in his picture of the emissions sticker.
He had asked if the engine had to be warm and what order to do these basics.
Cory and I responded that if you adjust idle mixture, distributor advance and curb idle you have to go round and round because both the former will effect the later.

I keep trying to address that because he has been asking (in the other thread) about what goes into a calibration code, what tag should be on his distributor, etc...

But that all goes out the window when he says it is "desmogged" (quotes because I don't know to what extent) and shows it with the 0-80457-S, a generic distributor and some aftermarket air cleaner.

Are the thermactor ports at the rear of the heads plugged?
Are the air spider manifolds removed and the fittings in the exhaust manifolds plugged?
What is he using for an alternator bracket if the A.I.R. pumps and their bracket are missing?

We know the cam is retarded, and he's giving up 25 hp and 50# of torque right there in my ignorant opinion.
I can't think of anything that needs an EFI timing set more than an RV.  

Excellent tutorial, Jim!

Thanks for posting this Jim, helpful!

Again, while I appreciate the positive comments, it's the productive criticism that I'm hoping can make this thread better.

What have I missed, or done wrong?

I still don't see any feedback from 'Cobra', but hopefully he will ask some questions.
Maybe this can ultimately become an addendum to the DSII conversion tutorial.
As it pretty much outlines what you'd need to do if setting up a non-feedback carb and distributor.

Should we dive into DuraSpark distributor curving?
Scotty has a detailed tutorial that I certainly can't improve on.

Jim - Sometimes I find that enrichening the idle mix just a smidge from "best vacuum" works better.  I don't like to let my engines idle for long periods of time, so I'm not worried about the little bit of extra fuel.  But right on "best vacuum" hasn't been best for me.

On the distributor curving, perhaps a link to Scotty's procedure?  That's because it is a deep discussion and isn't something that many of us will undertake.  However, including info on the basic procedure (base/centrifugal/vacuum) and then a discussion of tuning vacuum advance to the vehicle might be in order.

Slightly rich is far safer than 'slightly lean' and better for power.
But I alluded to this in the other thread when I said Holley sent their carbs out the door that way.

Is there a link to Scott's old tutorial? Because I don't see it on the PPAM website.
I thought you had asked him about hosting it here?

Maybe Bill could share his tricks of the trade???

Here I am present and accounted for. Busy day for me, I was just able to get to the forum.
Great write up,  thank you for that. I see there's more information I should have put up for discussion/ or for your consideration to be able to effectively help to make my rig run the best it can.
De-smogged- everything smog related is gone, no cat, no vacuum switches, air tubes plugged, smog pump removed, but retained the bracket in position to assist the alternator.
I would love to hear what you all can teach about the inter workings of the distributor, and well as the link to the video, or write up from Scott.
I wanted to send some photos , but haven't quite made it over to the RV storage yard yet today.

Okay.
There never was a Cat if your GVW is over #8,500 and the sticker says "NON-CATALYST".

I am using the L&L alternator bracket (with shim washers)

We need to distinguish between how your RV came off the line and how it would run best.

As you see, I have trouble addressing your questions, because I see them directed to "stock" instead of 'optimal'.

Additionally, it would be helpful to have something to address you as.
If you like 'Cobra' I'm good with that.
But I feel impersonal, without knowing how you wish to be addressed...

Perhaps we can dive into Distributor advance as part of a addendum to the DuraSpark conversion tutorial?

Congrat's on posting via the forum.  Looks nice and clean.  

And now you can post pics.  As Jim said earlier, there are instructions on the page at Bullnose Forum/Forum FAQ's.

Plus, you can use the emoticons.  

Gary Lewis wrote

Jim - Sometimes I find that enrichening the idle mix just a smidge from "best vacuum" works better.  I don't like to let my engines idle for long periods of time, so I'm not worried about the little bit of extra fuel.  But right on "best vacuum" hasn't been best for me.

That’s what I was taught early on when working on piston aircraft. Of course there’s a mixture control, which is quite handy!

Definitely better to err on the side of fouling plugs than holing pistons!  

Okay, the distributor instructions from Scotty's old Rein'car Nation' Automotive page are:

http://www.reincarnation-automotive.com/Duraspark_distributor_recurve_instructions_index.html

And

http://www.reincarnation-automotive.com/Duraspark_distributor_recurve_instructions_page-2.html

Here Scotty explains the relation between slot width and degrees of advance.
How to limit it by bushing the stop pin or welding the slot.
How different springs affect how progressive and aggressive the centrifugal advance will be.
How to adjust the vacuum 'can' and why it pulls the whole backing plate around.

Good evening ArdWrkn Trk,  I'm somewhat relieved that I only have to type out your name because I'm not quite sure how to pronounce it to address you in conversation. To answer your question, my mom calls me Michael, to everyone else I introduce myself as Mike. "The Cobra" is what I call my motorhome. It's a 1985 Cobra 26' class C motorhome. Powered by a Ford cutaway chasis E-350 Econoline with a 460ci engine. Hence my user 26ftcobraBBF (26 foot Cobra Big Block Ford).

The history of the Cobra Motorhome, in case you were wondering dated back to the early 1970s, Cobra produced a wide range of recreational vehicle. They produced Class A and Class C motorhomes through much of its three decades of existence, Cobra was also attached to the creation of fifth wheel trailers until 1980. Cobra’s extensive line of motorhomes have been powered by Chevrolet, Ford and Dodge powertrains. Cobra ceased production of motorhomes after the 1994 model year. Forest River Incorporated bought assets of the company soon after it shutdown. Some die hard Ford guys I've ran across in Facebook groups  get really sensitive when I mention a 1985 Ford Cobra is why I like to give a little history behind the name.

I've had some time to think about the information I've been requesting, and while you guys did a stellar job fielding my questions I can see why there may have been some confusion (mainly mine), or you guys thinking"what the hell is this guy talking about". It wasn't until you brought to my attention about all the factory, vehicle specific, specs being ," out the window" because of the changes I've made to the motor. That is when I questioned my direction. I now realize I can't rely on factory specs trying to make this run as good as it did new. I didn't even think about that until you mentioned it, which makes perfect sense. Thank you for that. I'm now going to take on a more Ford performance mindset versus a return to OEM mindset. Looking forward to your conversation about Duraspark, and/ or distributor specific information.

Disclosure....I'm a carpenter by trade, not a mechanic. I've got a very mechanical mind that started as a kid with my dad, and through the years I've mostly always done all of my own mechanical work to mine, and friends and familys vehicles. So when I ask dumb questions thank you in advance for just answering and not busting my you know what's to bad.