Bullnose Enthusiasts Forum

3G advice

Classic

List

Threaded

Assigned: Dan Crowley at priority

(Normal)

123 messages Options

1234567

Machspeed

Re: 3G advice

Administrator

Good for you, Tyler! Keep us posted on this if you will. Say, will your new alternator be on a single V belt pulley?

John

"Blackie" - 1986 F150 4x4 - Mildly warmed over 351W HO - Original owner

Rusty_S85

Re: 3G advice

In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk

ArdWrknTrk wrote

You need to understand the difference between resistive and inductive load....

Yes, of course output is load based. That's the point of having a regulator, not just a Load Response Control regulator.

Tyler should get a 3G because it will put out as much at idle as his 1G can at redline.
I don't care what the regulator is calling for, the 1G is gutless until it is spinning something like 8,000 rpm (alternator RPM)
The reason for the 130A 3G is not "130A!", it's the 100A available at idle.

The 1G was introduced in the 1964 1/2 Mustang.
A lot happened in the 26 years between that and the introduction of the 3G.

The alternator puts out set point voltage.
Amperage is simply how much current at that voltage is required to keep the volts at the set point of the regulator (in my case 14.35V)

Gary has a degree in this stuff.
I'm not an EE, but I do have a grasp how a simple alternator works.

You don't need the 8.25" ear spacing if you're using the smaller body (135mm) 95A 3G.
But you're not going to get 100A at idle from the smaller output 3G either, and the smaller fans and rectifier board heatsink are going to have it running much hotter than a 130 at the same load.

Of course the 3G is the way to go regardless just for the fact that they put out more amperage at lower speeds than the old 1G units. Just like the 130A 3G unit will run cooler and last longer than a 95A 3G unit since its working at a lower duty cycle than a smaller alternator would operate at.

Kinda why I am set on the 130A for myself as well only benefit the 95A would give me is not having to worry about ever slipping the belt. But Goodyear does sell V belts that have improved grip just have to know which belt to get to get the proper fit for the pulley. I temporarily gave up on this task as I couldnt get help from Goodyear directly and think its because of the virus. I will have to revisit it at a later date but Goodyear does seem to have some belts that should grip a lot better and help reduce slippage and just because the belt is not making noise doesnt mean the belt isnt slipping

"Old Blue" - '56 Fairlane Town Sedan - 292-4V, Ford-O-Matic transmission, 3.22:1
'63 Belair 2dr sdn - 283-4V, Powerglide transmission, 4.56:1
'78 Cougar XR7 - 351-2V, FMX transmission, 2.75:1 9inch
"Bruno" - '82 F150 Flareside - 302-2V, C6 transmission, 2.75:1 9inch, 31x10.50-15 BFG KO2

Dan Crowley

Re: 3G advice

In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk

Hi Gary, Do you know who sells an LRC regulator like you have, for my 200 amp 3G alternator? I have looked online but all I can find is rebuilt ones or lots of china junk. Thank you. Dan

Dan Crowley

Gary Lewis

Re: 3G advice

Administrator

Dan - My go-to place for alternator parts has been National Quick Start and they show a # F795 - Voltage Regulator, 12 Volt, A-Circuit, I-S-A Terminals, 14.6 Vset, 2.5 second LRC, For Ford 3G Series Alternators, and for $33.95 I'd hope it isn't Chinese.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

ArdWrknTrk

Re: 3G advice

Administrator

This post was updated on .

If you want genuine parts why not get it from one of the online Ford dealers? Tasca?
Ford probably has them a

I'm not sure what F4ZU-10316-AC becomes as a part number, but that is a good engineering number.

As is F5RZ-1316-A

Here's the tag off the box I got from DB Electrical.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

ArdWrknTrk

Re: 3G advice

Administrator

Ok, strike that.
It seems that both regulators are discontinued and no longer available from Ford.

https://www.fordpartsgiant.com/parts/ford-regulator-asy-volt_f5rz-10316-a.html

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: 3G advice

Administrator

DB told me they aren't selling the LRC regulators bare, so it looks like National Quick Start then. I remember researching this back when I was doing the alternator for Dad's truck and NQS was one of the few places that had them. Or, maybe I should say "will sell them". DB must have them.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: 3G advice

Administrator

I imagine anything from DB is 'China junk'
The one I sent you is definitely a refurb from Rotating Electrical Products.

Maybe NQS sources their regulators from a U.S. manufacturer?
I can't say.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: 3G advice

Administrator

Nor can I. But you'd hope that a regulator that costs half as much as a complete alternator would be American made.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: 3G advice

Administrator

I see they also have the F786 for $29.95

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: 3G advice

Administrator

Interesting. I'd missed that one.

Here's what they say about the F795:

Features:
100% New
Very low saturation voltage
Digital dash compatible
Used On: Ford (1994-2003), Mercury (1994-1999)

Replaces: Ford F4RU-10316-AA, F4ZU-10316-AA, F4ZU-10316-AC, F4ZZ-10316-A, GR814

And here's what they say about the F786:

Features:
100% New
Lamp activated
Used On: Ford (1995-2000), Ford - Europe (1993-2002), Mercury (1995-2001)

Replaces: Ford F5RU-10316-BA, F5RZ-10316-A, F5RZ-10316-B, GR818, GR819

So, what's the saturation voltage? I understand what saturation voltage for a transistor is, but how does it apply here?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: 3G advice

Administrator

I think it is the transistor that grounds the regulator causing it to output power.

Where they mention a difference between indicator light and electronic dash I'm going to make an assumption and say the 12V lamp, or the resistor across the socket is the "I" source for 786,
But with an electronic dash the regulator doesn't see battery voltage and probably needs to be triggered by 5.0V or less.
Just like your Arduino has limits to control voltages and currents, but it can output enough to switch a transistor (on a shield) that will switch those voltages and or currents.

Bill will probably chime in with details of digital dashboards, because he knows them so well.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

ArdWrknTrk

Re: 3G advice

Administrator

NOS Motorcraft for under $20

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F183534338615

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: 3G advice

Administrator

Good find. GR818, so the F786 is the equivalent. And $19.93 with free shipping is better than $29.95 + shipping.

And I agree with your assessments of the differences. But I'm not sure I understand why saturation voltage is important. If the set point is 14.6 then.....

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Rusty_S85

Re: 3G advice

Gary Lewis wrote

Good find. GR818, so the F786 is the equivalent. And $19.93 with free shipping is better than $29.95 + shipping.

And I agree with your assessments of the differences. But I'm not sure I understand why saturation voltage is important. If the set point is 14.6 then.....

GR819 is another number as well.

This is the one I bought on ebay $18.95 Motorcraft one with a number of F5RU-10316-BA on the regulator itself. Lists the following part numbers

F5RU-10316-BA, F5RZ-10316-A, F5RZ-10316-B, GR818, and GR819.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-OEM-FORD-REGULATOR-1995-00-FORD-MERCURY-LESTER-7774-7775-7789-7792-F786/291875990238?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

Dan Crowley

Re: 3G advice

Hey, thank you everybody, you all were a great help to me. I bought my F-250HD 4x4 diesel new in 84, used it to haul my slide on camper to the beach on week ends and in 95 I took it off the road to rebuild it. I was just going to repair the rust but because of a head gasket problem ended up having the motor done. Well after buying new doors, fenders, hood, and a replacement bed that my next door neighbors tree crushed and a ton of nos parts from eBay, which I bought some twice and I am still buying more, I had to let it sit do to lack of funds and a serious back injury, bad back surgery, and several other surgeries. But now I hope to get going on it and have learned a great deal from this site. Thanks again. Dan

Dan Crowley

Gary Lewis

Re: 3G advice

Administrator

Sorry to hear of your troubles, Dan. But glad you are now seemingly able to work on it, and hope you can get it back on the road soon.

It is great to see an original owner with one of these trucks. We don't have many of those.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: 3G advice

Administrator

In reply to this post by Dan Crowley

I'm glad you're finding the help you need here, Dan!

And I'll second Gary in saying it's great to see original owners here keeping their trucks on the road.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

ArdWrknTrk

Re: 3G advice

Administrator

In reply to this post by Rusty_S85

I promised John some pics of the 8.25" 130A alternator installed in my truck.
What I can't show is how tight it was with the stock bracket..

And just for kicks, here are some pics of how I mounted the Megafuse and relay box.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Machspeed

Re: 3G advice

Administrator

Thanks Jim, very kind of you! Can you tell me about that Megafuse and relay box?

Interesting, was thinking you had a two belt set up on that alternator.....makes me feel better now in what I'm doing. I stuck the alternator in that I got from AZ a couple of days ago just to confirm that I could make it fit. It goes back tomorrow and the DB unit that you recommended comes today supposedly.

John

"Blackie" - 1986 F150 4x4 - Mildly warmed over 351W HO - Original owner

1234567

3G advice

Re: 3G advice

Re: 3G advice

Re: 3G advice

Re: 3G advice

Re: 3G advice

Re: 3G advice

Re: 3G advice

Re: 3G advice

Re: 3G advice

Re: 3G advice

Re: 3G advice

Features: 100% New Very low saturation voltage Digital dash compatible Used On: Ford (1994-2003), Mercury (1994-1999) Replaces: Ford F4RU-10316-AA, F4ZU-10316-AA, F4ZU-10316-AC, F4ZZ-10316-A, GR814

Features: 100% New Lamp activated Used On: Ford (1995-2000), Ford - Europe (1993-2002), Mercury (1995-2001) Replaces: Ford F5RU-10316-BA, F5RZ-10316-A, F5RZ-10316-B, GR818, GR819

Re: 3G advice

Re: 3G advice

Re: 3G advice

Re: 3G advice

Re: 3G advice

Re: 3G advice

Re: 3G advice

Re: 3G advice

Re: 3G advice

Features:
100% New
Very low saturation voltage
Digital dash compatible
Used On: Ford (1994-2003), Mercury (1994-1999)

Replaces: Ford F4RU-10316-AA, F4ZU-10316-AA, F4ZU-10316-AC, F4ZZ-10316-A, GR814

Features:
100% New
Lamp activated
Used On: Ford (1995-2000), Ford - Europe (1993-2002), Mercury (1995-2001)

Replaces: Ford F5RU-10316-BA, F5RZ-10316-A, F5RZ-10316-B, GR818, GR819