ArdWrknTrk Posted January 6, 2023 Share Posted January 6, 2023 Thanks Gary! Start crank = 3V Engine running = 7.8V Like Bill said, just swap out your old Motorcraft cap for the two spade choke cap that comes on the Holley I see you've already cut off the female bullet connector though.... Ford uses stator power so the choke spring only gets heated if the engine is turning. Some model year H.O. engines did have a choke relay as stock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whisler Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 Like Bill said, just swap out your old Motorcraft cap for the two spade choke cap that comes on the Holley I see you've already cut off the female bullet connector though.... Ford uses stator power so the choke spring only gets heated if the engine is turning. Some model year H.O. engines did have a choke relay as stock The relay setup works well on the Edelbrock on my 351W, pulled in by the stator wire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBrother-84 Posted January 7, 2023 Author Share Posted January 7, 2023 The relay setup works well on the Edelbrock on my 351W, pulled in by the stator wire. Thanks Gentlemen, I'll take a look to my old carb tomorrow (we had friends for dinner tonight, I wasn't able to work on the truck). Looking at the picts that I took last summer, is it possible to confirm the model? Talked with another friend today, about that investigation. He said that a higher voltage will open the choke flap faster, which is not necessarily desirable under our cold weather... Any advice about this theory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 Thanks Gentlemen, I'll take a look to my old carb tomorrow (we had friends for dinner tonight, I wasn't able to work on the truck). Isn't that illegal in Canada? Did you fry them? Boil them? Or what? I don't know Holley carbs so I'll let the others respond to that. But the real question is what the black plastic choke heater says. 12V? As for the flap opening too quickly, I don't think that will be an issue as the choke system was designed to use whatever voltage is stated on the heater. But if you want to try to dial the choke in using the 7.8V you have now it might work. When the engine is cold loosen the three screws holding the choke heater, but only just enough to rotate it. With the throttle held off the idle stop a bit rotate the choke cap until you get about 1/16" of gap between the choke butterfly and the carb body. In other words, you want the choke to almost be closed, but not quite. Put the air cleaner back on and take the truck for a drive. See how easily it starts and how it drives. If it starts easily great, but if you have to pump the throttle several times to get it to start then you'll need to reset the choke to close a bit more when cold - but only a bit. Use drill bits to gauge it. As you drive and the coolant temp comes up note whether the engine "loads up", meaning it acts like it has too much choke. It might even blow black smoke out the exhaust. If that's the case then the choke isn't coming off fast enough, which is caused by too low of voltage. On the other hand, it is remotely possible that you don't have enough choke and the engine doesn't want to run w/o pumping the gas. I doubt that will be the case, but watch for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 Thanks Gentlemen, I'll take a look to my old carb tomorrow (we had friends for dinner tonight, I wasn't able to work on the truck). Looking at the picts that I took last summer, is it possible to confirm the model? Talked with another friend today, about that investigation. He said that a higher voltage will open the choke flap faster, which is not necessarily desirable under our cold weather... Any advice about this theory? Jeff, you have a Holley for Motorcraft 4180-C carburetor. You can tell this by the Ford part # E6HE-9510-GB. and Holley for Motorcraft on the front of the bowl. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a little aluminum calibration tag affixed. This is usually under one of the secondary diaphragm cover screws. Choke coils are a unit onto themselves. Motorcraft covers are calibrated for the ~7V that comes from the stator coil. Holley universal chokes (with two spades) are set up for 12V from some other source. Holley used to have all the list numbers under the technical files on their website, and probably still do, but my old bookmarks are 404. Build number shows as 28th day of 1987 so it must have been swapped for a remanufactured OEM emissions carb at some point. You also don't have the bowl vent elbows attached to the float bowls so I'd imagine the carb dries up in a couple of days and would require extended cranking to get primed. The side effect of this is lots of crusty residue ends up in the bowls. Dried out gasoline, air in contact with the pot metal.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBrother-84 Posted January 7, 2023 Author Share Posted January 7, 2023 Isn't that illegal in Canada? Unfortunately not! Had two full Holidays weeks, there was so much people here, coming in & out, lunch, dinner, sleeping, playing... had lot of fun, but I admit Big Bro was a bit neglected. Anyway, last kid went back to school and last friends are gone, we're going back to normal life. As for the flap opening too quickly [...] I remember my youth when I was driving a Renault 5. Flap choke was manually operated by a cable, life seemed simpler. Should find some time for Big Bro today... before going back to my office next Monday. Thanks so much for your support! Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBrother-84 Posted January 7, 2023 Author Share Posted January 7, 2023 Jeff, you have a Holley for Motorcraft 4180-C carburetor. You can tell this by the Ford part # E6HE-9510-GB. and Holley for Motorcraft on the front of the bowl. [...] Build number shows as 28th day of 1987 so it must have been swapped for a remanufactured OEM emissions carb at some point. Jim, thanks for this info. I tried to find the answer by myself, from Holley's web site, but I admit I was rapidly lost. You also don't have the bowl vent elbows attached to the float bowls so I'd imagine the carb dries up in a couple of days and would require extended cranking to get primed. That could explain why Big Bro was always difficult to start and needed pumping to crank. But I was expecting that giving him a new carb would fix this behavior... This is unfortunately not the case, I still have to pump after a long parked delay (couple of days). I hope that fine tuning the choke issue will help! Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 Jeff, you have a Holley for Motorcraft 4180-C carburetor. You can tell this by the Ford part # E6HE-9510-GB. and Holley for Motorcraft on the front of the bowl. [...] Build number shows as 28th day of 1987 so it must have been swapped for a remanufactured OEM emissions carb at some point. Jim, thanks for this info. I tried to find the answer by myself, from Holley's web site, but I admit I was rapidly lost. You also don't have the bowl vent elbows attached to the float bowls so I'd imagine the carb dries up in a couple of days and would require extended cranking to get primed. That could explain why Big Bro was always difficult to start and needed pumping to crank. But I was expecting that giving him a new carb would fix this behavior... This is unfortunately not the case, I still have to pump after a long parked delay (couple of days). I hope that fine tuning the choke issue will help! Holley used to have scans of their paper books in the technical support section. IIRC the 4180's were across the top of pgs. 56 & 57, but alas you now have to punch in a list# and yours comes up "nothing found" My truck has a mechanical fuel pump so it takes a lot of cranking if I let it sit too long. Sometimes (if I know it's been a week) I resort to using a syringe to fill the bowls through the primary vent tube sticking up in the choke horn. This saves wear and tear on my starter and battery. The 'Hot Fuel' 460's with electric pumps bypass the oil pressure safety switch and prime while the starter is engaged. I expect this is the case for 351's with electric pumps as well, but can't be certain without looking at the EVTM. I have to look now.... 'pumping' an empty bowl may give you something to do while the carburetor fills but I doubt it really accomplishes anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBrother-84 Posted January 7, 2023 Author Share Posted January 7, 2023 My truck has a mechanical fuel pump so it takes a lot of cranking if I let it sit too long. [...] 'pumping' an empty bowl may give you something to do while the carburetor fills but I doubt it really accomplishes anything. Wow! Jim, that is very interesting. Big Bro is also equipped with a mechanical fuel pump. Never thought about it, but it's logical: If the engine is off and not cranking, pumping the pedal doesn't push fuel to the carb. The engine must be turning to activate the fuel pump and provide fuel to the carb. So, the full-pedal-to-the-floor move before cranking is only to close the choke flap, am I right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 My truck has a mechanical fuel pump so it takes a lot of cranking if I let it sit too long. [...] 'pumping' an empty bowl may give you something to do while the carburetor fills but I doubt it really accomplishes anything. Wow! Jim, that is very interesting. Big Bro is also equipped with a mechanical fuel pump. Never thought about it, but it's logical: If the engine is off and not cranking, pumping the pedal doesn't push fuel to the carb. The engine must be turning to activate the fuel pump and provide fuel to the carb. So, the full-pedal-to-the-floor move before cranking is only to close the choke flap, am I right? The cam eccentric is what actuates the fuel pump lever so if the engine isn't turning the pump isn't filling the carb. Certainly, when stone cold one press of the pedal will set the choke. If there's still gas in the primary bowl, multiple pumps of the pedal will push raw fuel into the plenum and provide the very rich mixture you need for the engine to catch (because the fuel doesn't want to atomize and condenses on the floor of the intake manifold) If the truck sat long enough for the bowls to evaporate, then yes there's nothing for the accelerator pump to push. Pumping like mad will be sure to catch those first drops and get them into the intake. This is the reason for the exhaust crossover that heats directly under your carb. Obviously the engine has to get running for that to have any effect.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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