Coil Springs- Love the TTB, but Hate the Leafs-Thoughts comments, or experience?

[Bulletproof250]

This idea has been in my mind for years since I've picked this truck up.

1. I want to Level or possibly lift the nose higher than the rea suspension slightly.

2. I'm really not all that interested in Front spring packs (so stiff)

3. I will most definitely cut and turn the balljoint mounts on the beams, not doing the traditional drop brackets

4. Is it easier to transplant the entire F150 TTB, and go to the Dana 44, or can I stay with the Dana 44HD

This approach brings my mind to thinking about spring rates and newer f250 Super-duty trucks spring rates and lengths

5. Possible follow on work would include different ring and pinion (possibly air locker) thus Dana 44 may be a more accessible choice?

6. Are there other options in TTB suspension that have more ring-pinion/locker options?

I do use a plow for the driveway (NOT commercially) but it it does see plow and winter use.

Has anyone done such a thing?

Happy Holidays all!

[Gary Lewis]

I'm not sure I understand. Is yours an F250HD with the leaf springs or the F250 light duty with the coil springs?

In any event, here are my takes on the two different front suspensions:

• Coils & TTB: I really like the coil spring/TTB suspension on Dad's truck as it rides and handles well. I've not measured the travel/articulation, but I'd bet it approaches that of Big Blue's at the moment.

• Leafs & TTB: I really dislike this combo. Big Blue had that and the ride was horrible. I pulled the sway bars, front and rear, and that helped but the ride was still brutal. Then one day I realized that in spite of having new front springs I had ~2" of articulation in the front. Maybe less as I could just slip my pointer finger between the spring and the bump stop when the truck was on the ground.

  The problem appears to be that the TTB's are trying to both flex the springs vertically as well as twist the springs when a bump is hit. That gives a very high spring rate and that creates the brutal ride and very limited articulation.

What I did was to install a D60 front axle using a Sky Offroad kit. Plus I used SuperDuty springs with a rear shackle kit. That transformed the truck. The ride is now dramatically better, although not as good as a coil/TTB combo. And the articulation is now 4x before at almost 8".

Plus it raised the front of the truck enough that I swapped from the 2" rear blocks to the 4" rear blocks and it was almost perfectly level with the front slightly higher than the rear. And that's with a 460, massive dual batteries, and the winch.

I can't explain how much better the truck is with this combo. I said "dramatically" but that doesn't really do it justice. I highly recommend something of this sort if you are considering a change. But there are other options, with some recently going with the later coil spring front end and D60 front axle, and that might be even better.

[Nothing Special]

I'm not sure I understand. Is yours an F250HD with the leaf springs or the F250 light duty with the coil springs?

In any event, here are my takes on the two different front suspensions:

• Coils & TTB: I really like the coil spring/TTB suspension on Dad's truck as it rides and handles well. I've not measured the travel/articulation, but I'd bet it approaches that of Big Blue's at the moment.

• Leafs & TTB: I really dislike this combo. Big Blue had that and the ride was horrible. I pulled the sway bars, front and rear, and that helped but the ride was still brutal. Then one day I realized that in spite of having new front springs I had ~2" of articulation in the front. Maybe less as I could just slip my pointer finger between the spring and the bump stop when the truck was on the ground.

  The problem appears to be that the TTB's are trying to both flex the springs vertically as well as twist the springs when a bump is hit. That gives a very high spring rate and that creates the brutal ride and very limited articulation.

What I did was to install a D60 front axle using a Sky Offroad kit. Plus I used SuperDuty springs with a rear shackle kit. That transformed the truck. The ride is now dramatically better, although not as good as a coil/TTB combo. And the articulation is now 4x before at almost 8".

Plus it raised the front of the truck enough that I swapped from the 2" rear blocks to the 4" rear blocks and it was almost perfectly level with the front slightly higher than the rear. And that's with a 460, massive dual batteries, and the winch.

I can't explain how much better the truck is with this combo. I said "dramatically" but that doesn't really do it justice. I highly recommend something of this sort if you are considering a change. But there are other options, with some recently going with the later coil spring front end and D60 front axle, and that might be even better.

Gary, I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure both the standard F-250 and the F-250HD used leaf springs with the TTB front axle.

To the original question, I've had two trucks with leaf sprung TTB ('85 F-250HD RCLB and '97 F-250HD CCSB) and one with coil spring TTB ('95 F-150 SCSB).

My experience with the '85 F-250 is much the same as Gary's, I didn't care for the ride (and i was a lot younger then!).

On the other hand I'm pretty satisfied with the ride of my '97 F-250. I don't know what's different from the '85. Maybe it's the big block and crew cab weight? Maybe it's 100K more miles softening it up? Or maybe Ford learned something?

Most of the time I had my '95 F-150 it was on a 2.5" lift (drop brackets and longer radius arms). It definitely rode better than the '85, but I'm not sure it was better than the '97. I never minded the ride, but you wouldn't mistake it for a car.

There are people who turn the TTB into a suspension that will handle Baja prerunning. GoFastBroncos is one bulletin board I'm aware of. Coil springs (or coil-overs) are the way they go, and I think they like longer swingarms with custom geometry. Something in that line might be a good resource for you.

I don't know that I can help you much with the Dana44/Dana44HD question. I was under the impression that both of those used the same diff, but I could well be wrong. I have heard that the Dana50 TTB diff will bolt right in to a 44 or 44HD suspension. I'm not sure what all that ends up changing (not a lot else I think), but it is considered a worthwhile upgrade by some.

I'm pretty sure you can get an ARB for any of these options.

[Gary Lewis]

Gary, I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure both the standard F-250 and the F-250HD used leaf springs with the TTB front axle.

To the original question, I've had two trucks with leaf sprung TTB ('85 F-250HD RCLB and '97 F-250HD CCSB) and one with coil spring TTB ('95 F-150 SCSB).

My experience with the '85 F-250 is much the same as Gary's, I didn't care for the ride (and i was a lot younger then!).

On the other hand I'm pretty satisfied with the ride of my '97 F-250. I don't know what's different from the '85. Maybe it's the big block and crew cab weight? Maybe it's 100K more miles softening it up? Or maybe Ford learned something?

Most of the time I had my '95 F-150 it was on a 2.5" lift (drop brackets and longer radius arms). It definitely rode better than the '85, but I'm not sure it was better than the '97. I never minded the ride, but you wouldn't mistake it for a car.

There are people who turn the TTB into a suspension that will handle Baja prerunning. GoFastBroncos is one bulletin board I'm aware of. Coil springs (or coil-overs) are the way they go, and I think they like longer swingarms with custom geometry. Something in that line might be a good resource for you.

I don't know that I can help you much with the Dana44/Dana44HD question. I was under the impression that both of those used the same diff, but I could well be wrong. I have heard that the Dana50 TTB diff will bolt right in to a 44 or 44HD suspension. I'm not sure what all that ends up changing (not a lot else I think), but it is considered a worthwhile upgrade by some.

I'm pretty sure you can get an ARB for any of these options.

I didn't know if the LD F250 had leaf or coil springs. But if leaf springs then my dislike applies to them as well.

But Big Blue not only has the weight of the big block but also dual batteries and the winch, and it rode like it had no springs. So your '97 must have something different.

[salans7]

I didn't know if the LD F250 had leaf or coil springs. But if leaf springs then my dislike applies to them as well.

There were no coil spring F250 4x4's.

The light duty trucks are weird. My LD F250 parts truck still had the heavy duty lug nuts like the HD and F350 trucks. Also had kingpins rather than ball joints (4x2), even in 1986.

[Gary Lewis]

I didn't know if the LD F250 had leaf or coil springs. But if leaf springs then my dislike applies to them as well.

There were no coil spring F250 4x4's.

The light duty trucks are weird. My LD F250 parts truck still had the heavy duty lug nuts like the HD and F350 trucks. Also had kingpins rather than ball joints (4x2), even in 1986.

Learn something every day.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Hi Alex,

What is it about the leafs you dislike so much?

The fact that there's limited travel so the truck bottoms constantly?

I'm not sure what you could do with the D44 from an F-150.

Does your truck have 15" wheels and 5-5.5" lug pattern?

Would you miss the bigger calipers and rotors?

Without radius arms like a 150 you really have no way to locate a 44HD/50 front axle with coil springs.

I've seen people put the softer & taller 350 springs on a 250 but always with a reverse shackle because otherwise the stock front shackle has nowhere to go

 

[Lima Delta]

Hi Alex,

I've often day-dreamed of doing something similar. I've tried numerous times to find some examples of coil conversion projects using the D44HD, but I've never had much luck. I've seen some examples using the D50, but not the D44HD for some reason. Near as I can tell it should be possible, but will require some engineering and quite a bit of custom fabrication.

[Bulletproof250]

Hi Alex,

I've often day-dreamed of doing something similar. I've tried numerous times to find some examples of coil conversion projects using the D44HD, but I've never had much luck. I've seen some examples using the D50, but not the D44HD for some reason. Near as I can tell it should be possible, but will require some engineering and quite a bit of custom fabrication.

Thanks for all of the inputs,

I hope that everyone has had great holidays, and here to the coming new year with less Truck-Fixing and more Truck-building!

I was inspired long ago (about 5 years now) by this truck: https://www.motortrend.com/features/1211or-stealth-prerunner-1982-ford-f250-4x4/

or a similar one that did a coil conversions and looked really drivable.

Yes the rides is lacking, but not that I really have any issue with it, just that it seems so close to bein able to be improved with coil springs especially since ford went to this spring type in it's later designs of the F350. Also I have had visions of the Baja 1000 (yes ONLY visions), which always drives my my style choices for my truck.

I my research of my truck and the crossover points in the best choices for suspensions I always seem to find more information for the Dana 44 i.e. aftermarket beams, differentials, and lockers. I figured if I'm to go down this path, of changing to the coil spring suspension, I had better understand what parts will be transplanted, and which parts should be upgraded.

This si not simply a all show situation I do access the offroad, not so much as a hobby, but whenever the need arises, to access fishing areas (Beach and Woods), go camping, or to simply help someone "out" of a position. and now with the "overland" trend I can see this being a capable offroad vehicle, and possibly doing some camping too.

I'll look in the gofastbroncos.com, and I'm open to anyone who can translate which front end I have ( I think that it's the D44HD, but if someone can help determine this once and for all, as I'm still looking for the concrete answer)

Once again Happy Building with that "Bullnose" style,

 

[ArdWrknTrk]

Thanks for all of the inputs,

I hope that everyone has had great holidays, and here to the coming new year with less Truck-Fixing and more Truck-building!

I was inspired long ago (about 5 years now) by this truck: https://www.motortrend.com/features/1211or-stealth-prerunner-1982-ford-f250-4x4/

or a similar one that did a coil conversions and looked really drivable.

Yes the rides is lacking, but not that I really have any issue with it, just that it seems so close to bein able to be improved with coil springs especially since ford went to this spring type in it's later designs of the F350. Also I have had visions of the Baja 1000 (yes ONLY visions), which always drives my my style choices for my truck.

I my research of my truck and the crossover points in the best choices for suspensions I always seem to find more information for the Dana 44 i.e. aftermarket beams, differentials, and lockers. I figured if I'm to go down this path, of changing to the coil spring suspension, I had better understand what parts will be transplanted, and which parts should be upgraded.

This si not simply a all show situation I do access the offroad, not so much as a hobby, but whenever the need arises, to access fishing areas (Beach and Woods), go camping, or to simply help someone "out" of a position. and now with the "overland" trend I can see this being a capable offroad vehicle, and possibly doing some camping too.

I'll look in the gofastbroncos.com, and I'm open to anyone who can translate which front end I have ( I think that it's the D44HD, but if someone can help determine this once and for all, as I'm still looking for the concrete answer)

Once again Happy Building with that "Bullnose" style,

The Dana 44 under your leaf sprung F-250 is "HD".

There were all kinds of 44 front axles produced by Dana including solid, but this generation saw Broncos and 150's get the TTB with radius arms and 250/350 (up to '85ish) trucks got the 44HD or D50 which use the springs to locate the axle fore and aft.

The biggest problem with 250's is ride height, or the distance between the beam and the snubber on the frame.

They also have very stiff leaves because of how the leaves torque and steering geometry is affected by ride height.