Rembrant Posted November 26, 2018 Share Posted November 26, 2018 Yes, the issues with both the space for the muffler and the filling of both tanks from one filler neck have been the biggest obstacles here. I believe there is a way to cover both those obstacles with the design i've got. I sent this off to a fabrication shop today, so we'll see what they think and of course what your guys thoughts are on it too. Below is my truck and where the exhaust exits (passenger side only) - I’d like this same exhaust positioning, but one on both passenger and driver side So your plan is to run the exhaust fairly tight below the fuel tank(s) on both sides? I see in your drawing that the driveshaft is in the center of the proposed dual tank. Keep in mind the driveshaft is not in the center of the truck, so you may have to decrease the size of the passenger side tank a little bit to make it fit. The driveline is offset a couple inches to the passenger side. Remind us again why you don't want to go with a factory dual tank set-up?...lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzFace2 Posted November 26, 2018 Share Posted November 26, 2018 Yes, the issues with both the space for the muffler and the filling of both tanks from one filler neck have been the biggest obstacles here. I believe there is a way to cover both those obstacles with the design i've got. I sent this off to a fabrication shop today, so we'll see what they think and of course what your guys thoughts are on it too. Below is my truck and where the exhaust exits (passenger side only) - I’d like this same exhaust positioning, but one on both passenger and driver side So your plan is to run the exhaust fairly tight below the fuel tank(s) on both sides? Remind us again why you don't want to go with a factory dual tank set-up?...lol. And he want to put the HOT muffler between the frame rail & transfer case. There is a reason why the factory put things where they did. You DO NOT want to run the HOT exh under fuel tanks as it will heat the fuel and this is not good for vapor lock. Then you want to put that big hot muffler next to the transfer case what do you think that will do to the oil and bearings? Have you looked into an AUX tank to fit in the bed if you don't want to put one out back in the stock location. Dave ---- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtanns Posted December 2, 2018 Author Share Posted December 2, 2018 Yes, the issues with both the space for the muffler and the filling of both tanks from one filler neck have been the biggest obstacles here. I believe there is a way to cover both those obstacles with the design i've got. I sent this off to a fabrication shop today, so we'll see what they think and of course what your guys thoughts are on it too. Below is my truck and where the exhaust exits (passenger side only) - I’d like this same exhaust positioning, but one on both passenger and driver side So your plan is to run the exhaust fairly tight below the fuel tank(s) on both sides? I see in your drawing that the driveshaft is in the center of the proposed dual tank. Keep in mind the driveshaft is not in the center of the truck, so you may have to decrease the size of the passenger side tank a little bit to make it fit. The driveline is offset a couple inches to the passenger side. Remind us again why you don't want to go with a factory dual tank set-up?...lol. The exhaust will only run a foot along the frame rail and then dump out the side. it's at least a few inches off the tank. Yes, you're absolutely right re position of driveshaft. That was just an amateur sketch to get the idea on paper. Spoke with a fab shop and sounds like they're game for this. Better design though of course, without going under the driveshaft @ the front. It connects the tank at the back only, at the top of the tank, and then has a fuel pump between both sides to share fuel between each side. You can see below. the space there. The leaf springs allow for 7 1/2" of travel and there is plenty of space above to add the connection I want to do it this way because I want the fuel capacity, without mucking with relying on an electronic switch. And I want the space in the back for a permanent spare tire. Also, I'll only have one filler neck here as well. It'll have an electronic fuel pump because I'm going EFI with the Fi-Tech unit. Yes, Dave, the heat is an issue. It appears that this will resolve that though. https://www.heatshieldproducts.com/hp-sticky-shield They also have a muffler wrap that reduces heat ridiculously, by like 70%. I'm certain there is enough space in there to get a muffler and fit the exhaust. Here is a pic from the front in the engine bay, looking back.. Will keep y'all posted on the progress! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtanns Posted January 22, 2019 Author Share Posted January 22, 2019 The exhaust will only run a foot along the frame rail and then dump out the side. it's at least a few inches off the tank. Yes, you're absolutely right re position of driveshaft. That was just an amateur sketch to get the idea on paper. Spoke with a fab shop and sounds like they're game for this. Better design though of course, without going under the driveshaft @ the front. It connects the tank at the back only, at the top of the tank, and then has a fuel pump between both sides to share fuel between each side. You can see below. the space there. The leaf springs allow for 7 1/2" of travel and there is plenty of space above to add the connection I want to do it this way because I want the fuel capacity, without mucking with relying on an electronic switch. And I want the space in the back for a permanent spare tire. Also, I'll only have one filler neck here as well. It'll have an electronic fuel pump because I'm going EFI with the Fi-Tech unit. Yes, Dave, the heat is an issue. It appears that this will resolve that though. https://www.heatshieldproducts.com/hp-sticky-shield They also have a muffler wrap that reduces heat ridiculously, by like 70%. I'm certain there is enough space in there to get a muffler and fit the exhaust. Here is a pic from the front in the engine bay, looking back.. Will keep y'all posted on the progress! So lots has happened since my last post. INTERIOR: I've taken every piece out of my interior again to clean up and redo. At the pick n part I found an absolutely mint dash and wood grain interior.. all for 80 bucks no less Unfortunately, i was repainting the silver outline on the door pieces and used painters tape to keep the line straight, and then peeling the painters tape, pulled off some... a lot.. of the wood grain pattern :/ I was torn on using those anyways (if anyone wants them, let me know), but I was most stoked about the dash! Wow, what a find. So to reinforce the speaker holes, I experimented on my old dash in many different ways and found the best way is the following: Those black inserts are just paper, covered in black hockey tape, covered in packing tape. After I paint the new dash, I'm going to put those inserts in there and then spray foam behind them so that the perforations have something solid underneath and won't break (and will still look like holes because they'll be black) Here are all the pieces I'm repainting for the second time using Duplicolor Vinyl & Fabric Red. I converted my living room into a paint shop, and I've been spraying on my apartment's front deck (covered in drop sheet) after checking for watching neighbours I'm also going to paint the seatbelts in this color as well as the carpet at the bottom of the doors. BODYWORK: My fiancee's uncle has a body shop and was kind enough to take on this project for me! I also just got in my vinyl wrap, a guy I know is going to apply it when everything is ready. Went with 3M Satin Black, which has a 7 year "life". Anyways, the body shop is priming the truck in black before the vinyl wrap goes on. ENGINE: Engine is done! 351M Stroked to 400, shaved the block and cylinder heads to make 9.1:1 compression. Just hit the dyno and did 373 HP & 450 lb/ft torque.... I don't know the exact #s yet because I don't have the printout because I haven't picked up the engine, but those were the peaks. I also purchased a 2000 RPM stall converter so I can get the most out of the low end torquey powerband, and also got the Fi-Tech EFI system, which I'm very excited for to say the least! Wahoo! Got an aluminum rad and electric fan, a 160 amp alternator to run an isolated battery as well as some Hooker long tube headers. A custom fab shop is going to install the engine and link up the exhaust for me. GASTANK: A LOT of talking to insurance people etc to figure out the ins and outs of navigating the liabilities of custom gas tanks. Anyways, it's been figured and I've found a guy that will make it, now my next determination is figuring out the sending unit/fuel transfer pump between both sides. Here is the design I'm going with: Here is a write-up which is exactly what I need, but I'm in the stage of determining specifics regarding this setup: I'm currently trying to figure out this transfer pump/sending unit for the double tanks?!? Any advice would be huge! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve83 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 ...electric fan...That's a power hog - you'll get more on the ground with a mechanically-driven fan & a thermal clutch....an isolated battery...Why? Battery isolators are not only unreliable; they're dangerous when they fail; they prevent the battery from being fully charged; they're expensive & heavy; there is no benefit for a single-battery truck that's not used for camping or winching. You'd be lots of dollars ahead just connecting a good (MotorCraft) battery normally. https://supermotors.net/getfile/883860/thumbnail/starterwiringold.jpg If you plan to have 2 batteries, a relay is a VASTLY-superior way to isolate 1 as an auxilliary, and it's the way Ford did it back then: https://supermotors.net/getfile/905422/thumbnail/battrelayaux.jpgI'm currently trying to figure out this transfer pump/sending unit for the double tanks?!? Any advice would be huge!You're making a lot of problems for yourself with the funky-shaped tank. That little section above the d'shaft is more trouble than it's worth. What's its volume? Maybe a gallon or so? For that tiny bit of gas, you'll create a hundred dollars in headaches (if not $300). If you plan to drive this truck on overlanding treks, install 2 or 3 tanks. Otherwise, a single tank will do. If you MUST have that fuel capacity in that location, make 2 tanks; link them at the top rear with fuel hose (for airflow), and at the bottom front with bigger fuel hose (to allow gravity transfer between tanks). The lower hose only needs to be ~2x the diameter of the fuel supply line (to the engine). Have the fabricator add a check-ball in a cage in the "main" tank that rolls against the lower inlet to reduce flow backward to the aux tank. It doesn't matter if it leaks back slowly around the ball, or if the hose is lower than the fuel pickup - that little bit of gas doesn't matter. Route the lower hose so it absolutely cannot ever be snagged (forward across the t-case skidplate or crossmember) by driving over debris. But the factory '90-04 dual tank system is the most-reliable that doesn't require PCM control: a fuel reservoir/pump (FDM) in each tank that only requires a simple dash switch - no external valves. The fuel lines are simply branched (Y) to each tank's FDM. Using that system, you can have ANY number of tanks by simply adding fuel line branches, and changing to a switch with more throws (2-tanks: 2P2T switch; 6 tanks: 2P6T switch). This photo album's captions explain that system: https://supermotors.net/getfile/72010/thumbnail/j-3.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 Gtanns, Thanks for sharing your project. You sure have a good start on things. I too am wondering how to route an exhaust. At this point I am trying to find a 2.5" header-back exhaust with mufflers. Gary Lewis has recommended magna flow mufflers so I will likely give them a shot. The piping route is what has me scratching my head. Anyway, keep posting. I am enjoying the information everyone shares on these threads. I have a new 33 gal. tank in my Bronco. I haven't started driving it yet, but I thinking that sucker is going to hurt the wallet a little at the pump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 Gtanns, Thanks for sharing your project. You sure have a good start on things. I too am wondering how to route an exhaust. At this point I am trying to find a 2.5" header-back exhaust with mufflers. Gary Lewis has recommended magna flow mufflers so I will likely give them a shot. The piping route is what has me scratching my head. Anyway, keep posting. I am enjoying the information everyone shares on these threads. I have a new 33 gal. tank in my Bronco. I haven't started driving it yet, but I thinking that sucker is going to hurt the wallet a little at the pump Gtanns - Excellent progress! Love it. How long did all that take? As for painting in the living room, I could tell you aren't married. On the fuel tank situation, I have a 38 gallon Bronco tank that'll go in the rear of Big Blue, and the 19 gallon mid-ship tank will stay. And I'm going to use the later Fuel Delivery Modules like Steve83 mentioned. Just have to work out the resistance change from the later senders to match our gauges, and I'm good to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve83 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 Just have to work out the resistance change from the later senders to match our gauges...It would take an expensive custom module to do the conversion. It's much easier/cheaper/better to either put the '87-04 gauge into the older cluster... https://supermotors.net/getfile/65156/thumbnail/regeared_30890.jpg https://supermotors.net/getfile/76023/thumbnail/cluster-front.jpg https://supermotors.net/getfile/76022/thumbnail/cluster-back.jpg ...or (not as good) put the older sender on the later FDM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtanns Posted January 23, 2019 Author Share Posted January 23, 2019 ...electric fan...That's a power hog - you'll get more on the ground with a mechanically-driven fan & a thermal clutch....an isolated battery...Why? Battery isolators are not only unreliable; they're dangerous when they fail; they prevent the battery from being fully charged; they're expensive & heavy; there is no benefit for a single-battery truck that's not used for camping or winching. You'd be lots of dollars ahead just connecting a good (MotorCraft) battery normally. https://supermotors.net/getfile/883860/thumbnail/starterwiringold.jpg If you plan to have 2 batteries, a relay is a VASTLY-superior way to isolate 1 as an auxilliary, and it's the way Ford did it back then: https://supermotors.net/getfile/905422/thumbnail/battrelayaux.jpgI'm currently trying to figure out this transfer pump/sending unit for the double tanks?!? Any advice would be huge!You're making a lot of problems for yourself with the funky-shaped tank. That little section above the d'shaft is more trouble than it's worth. What's its volume? Maybe a gallon or so? For that tiny bit of gas, you'll create a hundred dollars in headaches (if not $300). If you plan to drive this truck on overlanding treks, install 2 or 3 tanks. Otherwise, a single tank will do. If you MUST have that fuel capacity in that location, make 2 tanks; link them at the top rear with fuel hose (for airflow), and at the bottom front with bigger fuel hose (to allow gravity transfer between tanks). The lower hose only needs to be ~2x the diameter of the fuel supply line (to the engine). Have the fabricator add a check-ball in a cage in the "main" tank that rolls against the lower inlet to reduce flow backward to the aux tank. It doesn't matter if it leaks back slowly around the ball, or if the hose is lower than the fuel pickup - that little bit of gas doesn't matter. Route the lower hose so it absolutely cannot ever be snagged (forward across the t-case skidplate or crossmember) by driving over debris. But the factory '90-04 dual tank system is the most-reliable that doesn't require PCM control: a fuel reservoir/pump (FDM) in each tank that only requires a simple dash switch - no external valves. The fuel lines are simply branched (Y) to each tank's FDM. Using that system, you can have ANY number of tanks by simply adding fuel line branches, and changing to a switch with more throws (2-tanks: 2P2T switch; 6 tanks: 2P6T switch). This photo album's captions explain that system: https://supermotors.net/getfile/72010/thumbnail/j-3.jpg Wow @Steve83... I've been looking through some of your links and files.. Holy smokes, very helpful. Thanks! For the battery -- yes, I will be running two batteries, and I think I may have mixed up my wording there. The relay is what I'm intending to have, as you describe. Your link shows also the driver side auxiliary batter tray design from Ford, which has the washerfluid container attached to it. I was scratching my head about how to do that as well... Thanks again :) Re fuel tank. My original plan was to connect both sides of the tank at the top-back and bottom-front like you describe -- but then there is a safety issue of the bottom-front portion (hose as you describe) running under the front of the driveshaft. Originally I thought creating a safety cradle under the driveshaft in case if the front U-joint blew out, the driveshaft wouldn't be bouncing/spinning off the bottom-front tank connection, but would rather be spinning around in it's safety cradle instead of bouncing around exploding stuff. Typing this now, I still think this is a decent idea, as long as the safety cradle catching the driveshaft is 100%. This design would likely completely eliminate the need for any transfer pumps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtanns Posted January 23, 2019 Author Share Posted January 23, 2019 Gtanns, Thanks for sharing your project. You sure have a good start on things. I too am wondering how to route an exhaust. At this point I am trying to find a 2.5" header-back exhaust with mufflers. Gary Lewis has recommended magna flow mufflers so I will likely give them a shot. The piping route is what has me scratching my head. Anyway, keep posting. I am enjoying the information everyone shares on these threads. I have a new 33 gal. tank in my Bronco. I haven't started driving it yet, but I thinking that sucker is going to hurt the wallet a little at the pump Yes, I was reading your thread Ferdinand and you have 4x4 like me and want the dual exhaust exit on both sides -- 4x4 makes it difficult if not impossible to come straight back off the headers. In my situation, I've gotta custom bend the driver side exhaust from the header underneath everything to the passenger side to connect to the passenger side pipe. I couldn't find any pre-built header-back exhaust outfits that worked. Yes, re fuel cost - I was just talking to my buddy in Texas ont he wknd he said it's like 2 bucks/gallon. I just converted Vancouver's price to USD/gallon...... it's $ 4.38/gallon... lol dangit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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