Making a TDC finder

[ArdWrknTrk]

Thanks for your reply. As I am 73, and my knees aren't what they used to be, I'm trying to find the least physically demanding method to check timing. I'll try the finger and straw method.

BTW, what size socket do I need for the crank nut? I also try to save steps back and forth to the tool box. If memory serves, it's 1 1/4".

My but feels better already...

15/16" deep (so the breaker bar or ratchet clears the crank pulley)

You still have a few years to catch up to Gary and Bill! 😃

Welcome to the forum.

[Gary Lewis]

15/16" deep (so the breaker bar or ratchet clears the crank pulley)

You still have a few years to catch up to Gary and Bill! 😃

Welcome to the forum.

Yep, you are 2 years behind me and 3 behind Bill. But I hope you don’t catch either of us for a long, long time. 😉

[mat in tn]

Yep, you are 2 years behind me and 3 behind Bill. But I hope you don’t catch either of us for a long, long time. 😉

is there a discussion here about what problem and symptoms you have that you are trying to solve? i looked briefly but did not see one. maybe someone here can help find a direction at least before digging too much deeper into the engine.

[ArdWrknTrk]

is there a discussion here about what problem and symptoms you have that you are trying to solve? i looked briefly but did not see one. maybe someone here can help find a direction at least before digging too much deeper into the engine.

Mat, thank you.

This is very much my point. (assessment and diagnosis... first)

I didn't mean to come off as combative or even as an "expert" but I have timed a few engines and replaced more than a few distributors in my day.

This is why I asked Chuck if there is a reason he didn't feel confident with the marks on the damper, and only stated that a degree wheel is much more accurate than a weird method of finding TDC if there are no marks to go by

He replied that he hadn't even looked at the damper, and I came back with 'this is a basic and necessary step for changing and timing any new distributor '

While I do understand that someone who hasn't worked on a vehicle in 30 years may be unsure about its condition and want a baseline, to me that baseline is the damper's timing marks. (I don't see a reason to 'dig deeper' unless damage or decay is evident)

[mat in tn]

Mat, thank you.

This is very much my point. (assessment and diagnosis... first)

I didn't mean to come off as combative or even as an "expert" but I have timed a few engines and replaced more than a few distributors in my day.

This is why I asked Chuck if there is a reason he didn't feel confident with the marks on the damper, and only stated that a degree wheel is much more accurate than a weird method of finding TDC if there are no marks to go by

He replied that he hadn't even looked at the damper, and I came back with 'this is a basic and necessary step for changing and timing any new distributor '

While I do understand that someone who hasn't worked on a vehicle in 30 years may be unsure about its condition and want a baseline, to me that baseline is the damper's timing marks. (I don't see a reason to 'dig deeper' unless damage or decay is evident)

one of the biggest benefits of this forum is that a group of like-minded people, at least in our trucks, can join heads and help each other out. i know i have learned a lot from this and i have been dealing with these since 91 at least and exclusively for ten years or more. i am always learning and i do this every day. i certainly hope that i never come across as hostile or even impatient. however sometimes it does take someone asking about the a,b,c's in diagnosis. if we all assume that they have checked what we consider basic then we miss the opportunity to teach the basics to those following along.

[ArdWrknTrk]

one of the biggest benefits of this forum is that a group of like-minded people, at least in our trucks, can join heads and help each other out. i know i have learned a lot from this and i have been dealing with these since 91 at least and exclusively for ten years or more. i am always learning and i do this every day. i certainly hope that i never come across as hostile or even impatient. however sometimes it does take someone asking about the a,b,c's in diagnosis. if we all assume that they have checked what we consider basic then we miss the opportunity to teach the basics to those following along.

Amen brother!

Often enough I find tips, tricks or information I otherwise would have looked right past, while reading this forum.

And Gary has amassed an incredible amount of factory documentation that few of us would ever have physical access to.

I do bicker with Gary. It is all in good fun. 😇

Hopefully we contribute to the knowledge of others in the process.

 

[Gary Lewis]

I do bicker with Gary. It is all in good fun. 😇

Hopefully we contribute to the knowledge of others in the process.

Someone once said “like an old married couple”. But it is in good fun, and it has helped me immensely as it causes me to rethink things. 👍

[Les Kerf]

I'm still trying to understand your first question.

If you want to use a gauge you've already got gutted of its check valve, why don't you find a foot or two of heater hose like in the video?

You don't need any kind of fitting, just a seal.

I would never trust this technique to precisely determine TDC.

You're better off with a plastic straw down the plug hole.

Why do you have any suspicion of the balancer marks if you haven't even bothered to look at it?

If your balancer is in such poor shape that you don't trust it, replace it as a matter of course. (anything rubber is a maintenance item)

Honestly I haven't seen that much (and I've been working on absolute junk since the '70's)

Piston stop and a degree wheel are for doing things like setting an adjustable cam gear, and is usually accomplished on an engine stand not in the truck.

Ouch! I probably won't sit comfortable for a week at least.

As I mentioned,, I haven't done any vehicle maintenance like this in over 30 years. I don't know what the PO may or may not have done prior to my buying this project. He just threw money and parts at the truck. I am just trying to find a bullit proof starting point for the resurrection of this red mess.

I read of the balancer shifting and making the TDC tool here, I have the tools, so what harm would result from making it? The PO had issues with timing. Short of pulling the timing cover and aligning the timing marks, I thought the TDC tool was pretty bullit proof.

Pardon me for not having your experience or knowledge on these engines... I guess my best option is to just read the forum and not ask dumb questions.

The physical piston stop is the best method for accurately finding TDC and verifying timing marks.

That said, I will offer another REALLY weird method to get mighty close, and it's pretty easy.

This method does require some sort of screw-in adapter; I use appropriate end of my compression tester.

Just slip a toy balloon over it and rotate the engine by hand to TDC; the balloon will inflate, the start to deflate when it passes TDC. By rocking back-and-forth you can get it pretty close, within a degree or so. If your balancer has not slipped it will then agree with the balloon.

I have never seen a balancer slip by only a degree or two; when they do let go they move quite a bit.

My Brother-in-law taught me this method; he uses it to time his Onan generator in his motor home; there is no way to see timing marks on that engine when it is installed.

[Gary Lewis]

The physical piston stop is the best method for accurately finding TDC and verifying timing marks.

That said, I will offer another REALLY weird method to get mighty close, and it's pretty easy.

This method does require some sort of screw-in adapter; I use appropriate end of my compression tester.

Just slip a toy balloon over it and rotate the engine by hand to TDC; the balloon will inflate, the start to deflate when it passes TDC. By rocking back-and-forth you can get it pretty close, within a degree or so. If your balancer has not slipped it will then agree with the balloon.

I have never seen a balancer slip by only a degree or two; when they do let go they move quite a bit.

My Brother-in-law taught me this method; he uses it to time his Onan generator in his motor home; there is no way to see timing marks on that engine when it is installed.

That’s a neat approach! Thanks for sharing as I’d never have thought of that.

And yes, balancers don’t usually slip a degree or two. I’ve seen the slip every time the AC compressor comes on and I’ve seen them cock sideways. But they don’t seem to stay lined up and just slip frequently.

[chucketn]

The physical piston stop is the best method for accurately finding TDC and verifying timing marks.

That said, I will offer another REALLY weird method to get mighty close, and it's pretty easy.

This method does require some sort of screw-in adapter; I use appropriate end of my compression tester.

Just slip a toy balloon over it and rotate the engine by hand to TDC; the balloon will inflate, the start to deflate when it passes TDC. By rocking back-and-forth you can get it pretty close, within a degree or so. If your balancer has not slipped it will then agree with the balloon.

I have never seen a balancer slip by only a degree or two; when they do let go they move quite a bit.

My Brother-in-law taught me this method; he uses it to time his Onan generator in his motor home; there is no way to see timing marks on that engine when it is installed.

Thanks for that technique, Les. I'm a long while from installing the new distributor. Had to order the Painless DSII harness and it has an 8 week lead time. Lots of other stuff to do...