Big Blue's Seat Platform

[ArdWrknTrk]

Well, I think I had an epiphany today. Basically it is that you cannot stuff 20" of "stuff" in a 17" space.

 

In the shot below you can see that with the tracks extended fore and aft it is 20" from the point where the tracks are all the way forward to where they are all the way back. And since it is only 17" between the front and rear uprights of the cross pieces there's no way it is going to fit. Further, it is only 1/4" from the bottom of the lower track to the bottom of the upper track. So it really doesn't matter how high the upright of the cross pieces is, it isn't going to work without some changes.

 

 

I can only think of three ways to make it work, but perhaps y'all can think of more:

 

1. Space Up: I could put a spacer under the track that is the same height as the flange of the channel. But it would take a 1 1/2" flange to give much rigidity to the angle, and I don't want to give up that much headroom. However, I currently have a 1 1/4" spacer in there which adapts the bolt pattern of the seat to the bolt pattern of the track, so maybe I could make it shorter and use that height in a spacer?

 

Limit The Range: I could limit the range of the seat's tracks to 3" instead of 5" and probably get it to work, but I really hate doing that as I want all the movement I can get to be able to gain access to the storage area behind the seats.

 

Turn The Angle Down: Instead of having the flange of the angle pointing up I could turn it down and then there's nothing to prevent the seat from sliding.

 

Of those options I like Door #3 the best. However, there is a minor problem - the flange will hit the carpet in the center and probably prevent the seat base from moving, and that's true of even a 1 1/2" flange. But I think I can mill the flange down across the middle and weld a brace across the back, basically where the light-colored piece of angle is shown in the pic below although the flanges haven't been turned down in that pic. And I think that will provide all the strength needed.

 

Tomorrow I'm going to turn the flanges down and determine how much needs to be taken off in order to clear the floor, and that will provide a lot more input to the decision-making process. But, in the interim I'd like to see your thoughts.

 

 

"you cannot stuff 20" of "stuff" in a 17" space." There's a far less 'family friendly' turn of phrase that has come to my mind any number of times.....The whole of Big Blue is the epitome of this mindset.I asked originally about facing the angle to the floor, and considered how that would further limit fastener access.You seemed concerned about headroom and the rear window. (but you have the storage shelf back there)And then you brought up angling the seat forward 7/8"But of the three, I agree, option 3 is the best way forward.I also still think 1x2 box with the track support flush at the front and sitting on top at the rear would have solved all of this.

[Gary Lewis]

"you cannot stuff 20" of "stuff" in a 17" space."

There's a far less 'family friendly' turn of phrase that has come to my mind any number of times.....

The whole of Big Blue is the epitome of this mindset.

I asked originally about facing the angle to the floor, and considered how that would further limit fastener access.

You seemed concerned about headroom and the rear window. (but you have the storage shelf back there)

And then you brought up angling the seat forward 7/8"

But of the three, I agree, option 3 is the best way forward.

I also still think 1x2 box with the track support flush at the front and sitting on top at the rear would have solved all of this.

I've drawn up what I think you mean and it might work. But before I ask questions let me 'splain what I have, with the drawing being an end view.

• Black: That's the cross pieces of angle with a piece at the bottom tying them together

• Red: That's the wedge or 1x2 box, although its height at the rear is the same as the flange on the angle

• Blue: That's the bottom half of the seat's track, the part that gets bolted to the wedge or base, and it protrudes only about 3/16" past the upper part of the track

• Green: That's the upper part of the seat's track, the part that gets bolted to the seat and moves fore/aft, with the dashed line showing where it would go to the rear

The upper part of the track extends 2 1/2 forward of the lower part at full extension. And given that it is only 3/16" above the bottom of the lower track I'm not sure how far forward of the bottom of the track it can extend before hitting the plate on the bottom.

Also, the back of the wedge has to be basically the same height as the flange on the rear angle as the upper track has to come back above it.

So, am I understanding what you mean?

[ArdWrknTrk]

I've drawn up what I think you mean and it might work. But before I ask questions let me 'splain what I have, with the drawing being an end view.

• Black: That's the cross pieces of angle with a piece at the bottom tying them together

• Red: That's the wedge or 1x2 box, although its height at the rear is the same as the flange on the angle

• Blue: That's the bottom half of the seat's track, the part that gets bolted to the wedge or base, and it protrudes only about 3/16" past the upper part of the track

• Green: That's the upper part of the seat's track, the part that gets bolted to the seat and moves fore/aft, with the dashed line showing where it would go to the rear

The upper part of the track extends 2 1/2 forward of the lower part at full extension. And given that it is only 3/16" above the bottom of the lower track I'm not sure how far forward of the bottom of the track it can extend before hitting the plate on the bottom.

Also, the back of the wedge has to be basically the same height as the flange on the rear angle as the upper track has to come back above it.

So, am I understanding what you mean?

Not really.

You're showing 1 1/2" of angle while you only want 7/8".

I meant making a frame of 1x2 box (on the flat) and having your 1x1 box track supports coped over the front and rear. So the cut away 11Ga. Box would become 7/8 above the frame at the rear.

I use bed frames for things like knocking together welding carts and shelf brackets.

When I care, i go for sections without sharp corners.

 

[Gary Lewis]

Not really.

You're showing 1 1/2" of angle while you only want 7/8".

I meant making a frame of 1x2 box (on the flat) and having your 1x1 box track supports coped over the front and rear. So the cut away 11Ga. Box would become 7/8 above the frame at the rear.

I use bed frames for things like knocking together welding carts and shelf brackets.

When I care, i go for sections without sharp corners.

Oh! I obviously misunderstood. Let me think through that idea.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Oh! I obviously misunderstood. Let me think through that idea.

I know I can be confusing at times.

I try to use a proper vocabulary and break things out in paragraphs (double return, no tab on my phone) so my thoughts are not some big stream of consciousness wall of text.

But I also know that sometimes I'm thick as a brick and can't grasp what someone else is trying to explain.

Sorry...

[Gary Lewis]

I know I can be confusing at times.

I try to use a proper vocabulary and break things out in paragraphs (double return, no tab on my phone) so my thoughts are not some big stream of consciousness wall of text.

But I also know that sometimes I'm thick as a brick and can't grasp what someone else is trying to explain.

Sorry...

Don't be sorry. I appreciate your input and your efforts to make it clear to me. But I miss the obvious frequently, so it isn't your fault.

In this case, while I like the idea of making a very neat base using tubing, I want to figure out what will work first. To me it is a very complex issue with angles and movement of two adjustment mechanisms at the same time. So I'm probably going to do it fairly quick and dirty to figure out what I like and then I can see about how to make it better, neater, and cleaner.

So tomorrow I'm going to flip the angles over and see how much needs to be trimmed. And after I get the base figured out I'll bolt the bucket seat brackets to the base and raise the rear with spacers between the bench seat brackets and the floor. That will let me test the seat angle and adjust if I think I need to do so.

Once I have it figured out then I can see about making it pretty. And easier to install. For instance, I need to improve the way I have the cross pieces bolted to the bench seat mounts. I'm using flanged-head 5/16" screws with Torx heads and my Torx bit is so long that I have to pull the bench seat mounts off the floor in order to tighten those screws. But it takes a special screw head to go in there w/o hitting the rollers in the mounts. Maybe I just need a Torx "Allen" wrench? Or a Torx bit w/o a socket?

Anyway, there's a lot of tweaking that needs to be done to make this "right", and I want to get something going so I can then improve it.

[Gary Lewis]

Don't be sorry. I appreciate your input and your efforts to make it clear to me. But I miss the obvious frequently, so it isn't your fault.

In this case, while I like the idea of making a very neat base using tubing, I want to figure out what will work first. To me it is a very complex issue with angles and movement of two adjustment mechanisms at the same time. So I'm probably going to do it fairly quick and dirty to figure out what I like and then I can see about how to make it better, neater, and cleaner.

So tomorrow I'm going to flip the angles over and see how much needs to be trimmed. And after I get the base figured out I'll bolt the bucket seat brackets to the base and raise the rear with spacers between the bench seat brackets and the floor. That will let me test the seat angle and adjust if I think I need to do so.

Once I have it figured out then I can see about making it pretty. And easier to install. For instance, I need to improve the way I have the cross pieces bolted to the bench seat mounts. I'm using flanged-head 5/16" screws with Torx heads and my Torx bit is so long that I have to pull the bench seat mounts off the floor in order to tighten those screws. But it takes a special screw head to go in there w/o hitting the rollers in the mounts. Maybe I just need a Torx "Allen" wrench? Or a Torx bit w/o a socket?

Anyway, there's a lot of tweaking that needs to be done to make this "right", and I want to get something going so I can then improve it.

Well, another epiphany - when you put the flange down it runs into the bench seat base when you try to slide back.

When did I have that epiphany? After I'd already trimmed the front cross piece to clear the carpet.

So I turned the flanges back up, although part of the front flange is cut out, and tacked in two pieces of angle to create a flat mounting surface, as shown on the left. I'm not sure how much flex that is going to introduce, but at least I have something on which I can put the seat for measurements.

And on the right is the seat sitting on the base w/o tracks or spacers. The angle gauge shows it angled back at 13 degrees, which is 3 degrees less than with the other base. So I need to see if the top of the seatback hits the window, but I'm sure it will. And the seat is at 13 3/8" above the door threshold, which is 7/8" lower than with the factory seat base and the tracks.

Speaking of the tracks, I'm wondering if I should dispense with the tracks on the buckets and just use the tracks on the base. There's actually more travel in the bench tracks than the bucket tracks, so I wouldn't be losing anything. And while that means both seats would adjust at the same time, that's exactly what the bench seat did and it wasn't a problem. It sure would simplify things.

Thoughts, please?

 

[ArdWrknTrk]

Well, another epiphany - when you put the flange down it runs into the bench seat base when you try to slide back.

When did I have that epiphany? After I'd already trimmed the front cross piece to clear the carpet.

So I turned the flanges back up, although part of the front flange is cut out, and tacked in two pieces of angle to create a flat mounting surface, as shown on the left. I'm not sure how much flex that is going to introduce, but at least I have something on which I can put the seat for measurements.

And on the right is the seat sitting on the base w/o tracks or spacers. The angle gauge shows it angled back at 13 degrees, which is 3 degrees less than with the other base. So I need to see if the top of the seatback hits the window, but I'm sure it will. And the seat is at 13 3/8" above the door threshold, which is 7/8" lower than with the factory seat base and the tracks.

Speaking of the tracks, I'm wondering if I should dispense with the tracks on the buckets and just use the tracks on the base. There's actually more travel in the bench tracks than the bucket tracks, so I wouldn't be losing anything. And while that means both seats would adjust at the same time, that's exactly what the bench seat did and it wasn't a problem. It sure would simplify things.

Thoughts, please?

Personally I think the nice thing about buckets is that each can be adjusted independently.

I also don't know how you intend to add the 9° or 7/8" or whatever... wedge to get the seating angle you seem to want.

But I'm out of thoughts and ideas.

I would have moved on to the swing gate to make better use of secure storage, clearing the spare and fuel out of the bed.

[Gary Lewis]

Personally I think the nice thing about buckets is that each can be adjusted independently.

I also don't know how you intend to add the 9° or 7/8" or whatever... wedge to get the seating angle you seem to want.

But I'm out of thoughts and ideas.

I would have moved on to the swing gate to make better use of secure storage, clearing the spare and fuel out of the bed.

I do like the individual adjustability, but I'm not coming up with a good plan for that and the height and angle I want at the same time. That's because the tracks add close to 1" of height by themselves, and then there's the angle.

However, that reminds me that there is another approach I forgotten about. Part of the problem is that the bolt pattern for the top of the tracks is different than the bolt pattern for the seats. Ford put a spacer in there and that spacer has the right spacing on the bottom for the tracks and on the top for the seat. However that spacer raises the front of the seat, which is not what I want to do and the spacer can't be turned around as it has cutouts for the mechanism and those cutouts don't work the other way 'round.

But I have drilled a hole in two of the tracks that lets them be bolted directly to the seat w/o the spacer. And while placing a bolt in that hole takes ~1" of travel out of the tracks because the roller hits the bolt head, there is still 4" of travel left.

So I could bolt them in with those tracks and go from 5" of travel now to 10" of travel, with 6" being in the bench tracks and 4" in the bucket tracks. But that will raise the seat by ~1", and when I raise the rear to change the angle I don't think I'd like the height.

Given that I think I'll drill the angle to bolt the seat in w/o tracks and see what I think. I can always drill and put the tracks in later.

As for the spare tire carrier, I lost a lot of sleep over that Tuesday night after our son called and we mutually postponed the trip. I really want to build that bumper/spare tire carrier, but after looking at drawing at length on Wednesday morning I came to the conclusion that doing so is going to have the truck out of service for quite a while as I want to attach things to it bit by bit, then tack welding them and pull the collection off for welding. And with the addition of the air bag gauge and the rear camera I need to think about where and how to mount them.

But we have several things that we want to do with the truck this spring. In a couple of weeks we are headed to western OK to check out the Sugar Creek Loop. Then on March 25th we are considering going to eastern OK for a car show that a neighbor invited us to. And then at the end of April we hope to head to NM to meet our son and he and I'll take the truck overlanding. So there are only a few weeks between outings and I came to the conclusion there isn't time to do the bumper. But there is time to do the seat base before the Sugar Creek Loop trip, and then I'm hoping to get the front camera and put on before the NM trip.

However, then there's SUMMER!

[ArdWrknTrk]

I do like the individual adjustability, but I'm not coming up with a good plan for that and the height and angle I want at the same time. That's because the tracks add close to 1" of height by themselves, and then there's the angle.

However, that reminds me that there is another approach I forgotten about. Part of the problem is that the bolt pattern for the top of the tracks is different than the bolt pattern for the seats. Ford put a spacer in there and that spacer has the right spacing on the bottom for the tracks and on the top for the seat. However that spacer raises the front of the seat, which is not what I want to do and the spacer can't be turned around as it has cutouts for the mechanism and those cutouts don't work the other way 'round.

But I have drilled a hole in two of the tracks that lets them be bolted directly to the seat w/o the spacer. And while placing a bolt in that hole takes ~1" of travel out of the tracks because the roller hits the bolt head, there is still 4" of travel left.

So I could bolt them in with those tracks and go from 5" of travel now to 10" of travel, with 6" being in the bench tracks and 4" in the bucket tracks. But that will raise the seat by ~1", and when I raise the rear to change the angle I don't think I'd like the height.

Given that I think I'll drill the angle to bolt the seat in w/o tracks and see what I think. I can always drill and put the tracks in later.

As for the spare tire carrier, I lost a lot of sleep over that Tuesday night after our son called and we mutually postponed the trip. I really want to build that bumper/spare tire carrier, but after looking at drawing at length on Wednesday morning I came to the conclusion that doing so is going to have the truck out of service for quite a while as I want to attach things to it bit by bit, then tack welding them and pull the collection off for welding. And with the addition of the air bag gauge and the rear camera I need to think about where and how to mount them.

But we have several things that we want to do with the truck this spring. In a couple of weeks we are headed to western OK to check out the Sugar Creek Loop. Then on March 25th we are considering going to eastern OK for a car show that a neighbor invited us to. And then at the end of April we hope to head to NM to meet our son and he and I'll take the truck overlanding. So there are only a few weeks between outings and I came to the conclusion there isn't time to do the bumper. But there is time to do the seat base before the Sugar Creek Loop trip, and then I'm hoping to get the front camera and put on before the NM trip.

However, then there's SUMMER!

What Pormido say about the new front camera is promising.

Hopefully those promises are delivered.

I was under the impression that you were going to cut bumper brackets out of plate and work off that.

I must not understand what's difficult about getting the bumper to width and tacking it in place before pulling off to weld it out. Aren't the gate and latch drawn up and scaled? It seems none of that requires the truck.

But that was also so far back that you intended to use the bumper as an air reserve....