Gary Lewis Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 May have it nailed down. Pulled the ECM and cracked it open. The big blue capacitors appear burned and looks like the oil has escaped. One of them has a broken leg too. Ordered a new one and some plugs because I am sure they're are caked with soot. Also, it was radiator time. We will know in about a week if this cures.it. Man, it should run like a new one after all of this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno2 Posted December 16, 2022 Author Share Posted December 16, 2022 Man, it should run like a new one after all of this! I hope it just runs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat in tn Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 I hope it just runs... sometimes it just feels good to find something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno2 Posted December 20, 2022 Author Share Posted December 20, 2022 Ok, so new ECU and still the same thing. The NOID light showed 5678 were all getting.power to the.injectors. pulled plugs 5-8 all were extremely carboned up. No fuel smell which was weird. Throttle response is horrible. Falls on it's face and.poor acceleration. I guess it's time rock the crank with the dizzy cap off the see how much slop we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 Ok, so new ECU and still the same thing. The NOID light showed 5678 were all getting.power to the.injectors. pulled plugs 5-8 all were extremely carboned up. No fuel smell which was weird. Throttle response is horrible. Falls on it's face and.poor acceleration. I guess it's time rock the crank with the dizzy cap off the see how much slop we have. I was under the impression that the injectors always have power and the computer grounds them to pulse them open. I'll be the first to admit I'm not the most knowledgeable about these batch fire SD systems and Bill has corrected me already,. Do you have no power to the passenger side injectors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno2 Posted December 21, 2022 Author Share Posted December 21, 2022 I was under the impression that the injectors always have power and the computer grounds them to pulse them open. I'll be the first to admit I'm not the most knowledgeable about these batch fire SD systems and Bill has corrected me already,. Do you have no power to the passenger side injectors? I am not sure how the injectors are operated. I havent tested the passenger side yet because they are extremely hard to get to. Those are underneath the upper intake manifold and it looks as though that will have to be pulled to get to the connectors. I rocked the crank with the cap off of the dizzy. The breaker bar I was using is about 18" long. It was traveling about 4" before I saw the rotor move. Gary doesnt think that was excessive. The part of the problem that is bewildering me is that the problem isnt constant. Mechanical problems are constant. A broken piston ring or a valve spring is always going to be there. It wont come and go like this problem is doing. So deflection in the chain rather it's there or not probably isnt causing this. The plugs looked extremely rich on all four cylinders on the driver side. That tells me not enough air like the fuel isnt being mixed correctly. Also, it only seems to show up under load. It acts completely different in the driveway. There is no throttle hesitation or cutting out and dying when I rev the motor in park. I have tested and changed a lot of parts on the fuel delivery side of things. The only thing that hasnt been changed or tested are the injectors. However, The plugs I pulled were all consistent. There wasnt an oddball. I suppose I need to pull 1234 just to be sure. I cant find the dang crank position sensor or the harness going to it. It's next on the test list. I ordered a radiator for it because this one has a leaky tank. I planned on replacing it . So I suppose I should go ahead and pull it to get all that crap out of the way to get better access to the CPS for diagnostics. I am about 90% certain it's electronic. Whatever it is acts up fairly soon when the truck is driven. Like the failing component is getting hot. Once it's hot it causes no start issues. However, after about 20-30 minutes of the truck being off whatever it is possibly cools off and then the truck starts normal again with no problems until it's underload again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno2 Posted December 21, 2022 Author Share Posted December 21, 2022 I am not sure how the injectors are operated. I havent tested the passenger side yet because they are extremely hard to get to. Those are underneath the upper intake manifold and it looks as though that will have to be pulled to get to the connectors. I rocked the crank with the cap off of the dizzy. The breaker bar I was using is about 18" long. It was traveling about 4" before I saw the rotor move. Gary doesnt think that was excessive. The part of the problem that is bewildering me is that the problem isnt constant. Mechanical problems are constant. A broken piston ring or a valve spring is always going to be there. It wont come and go like this problem is doing. So deflection in the chain rather it's there or not probably isnt causing this. The plugs looked extremely rich on all four cylinders on the driver side. That tells me not enough air like the fuel isnt being mixed correctly. Also, it only seems to show up under load. It acts completely different in the driveway. There is no throttle hesitation or cutting out and dying when I rev the motor in park. I have tested and changed a lot of parts on the fuel delivery side of things. The only thing that hasnt been changed or tested are the injectors. However, The plugs I pulled were all consistent. There wasnt an oddball. I suppose I need to pull 1234 just to be sure. I cant find the dang crank position sensor or the harness going to it. It's next on the test list. I ordered a radiator for it because this one has a leaky tank. I planned on replacing it . So I suppose I should go ahead and pull it to get all that crap out of the way to get better access to the CPS for diagnostics. I am about 90% certain it's electronic. Whatever it is acts up fairly soon when the truck is driven. Like the failing component is getting hot. Once it's hot it causes no start issues. However, after about 20-30 minutes of the truck being off whatever it is possibly cools off and then the truck starts normal again with no problems until it's underload again. The condition of the plugs like I stated is being caused by something either not mixing the air and fuel right or possibly bad ignition timing?? During some of the extended cranking the motor acted as if it was becoming hard to turn as if the timing wasnt being retarded? I need to test the ignition control module on the dizzy as well I suppose. I am going to look for some test procedures on it as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 The condition of the plugs like I stated is being caused by something either not mixing the air and fuel right or possibly bad ignition timing?? During some of the extended cranking the motor acted as if it was becoming hard to turn as if the timing wasnt being retarded? I need to test the ignition control module on the dizzy as well I suppose. I am going to look for some test procedures on it as well. First, did anything come from changing out the fuel filter? If not, then I'd say the "fuel system" is good because it does this with either tank, and each tank has its own pump. On the injectors, they are provided power when the key is turned on and then fired by the ECU grounding them. So if any injector in the "bank" is firing then it is likely they are all firing. As for the condition of the plugs, if you've not driven it much then they may still be showing the condition from when the ECU was bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat in tn Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 First, did anything come from changing out the fuel filter? If not, then I'd say the "fuel system" is good because it does this with either tank, and each tank has its own pump. On the injectors, they are provided power when the key is turned on and then fired by the ECU grounding them. So if any injector in the "bank" is firing then it is likely they are all firing. As for the condition of the plugs, if you've not driven it much then they may still be showing the condition from when the ECU was bad. if we are talking about dry soot. flat in appearance and the engine were to be run on the highway with a good tune that will clear up some. burn off. if it is wet and shiny then it is either gas or oil (possibly coolant but that would have to be a major problem to be on more than one). dry soot is not likely to resist sparking and should not really even be noticed. rich fuel air mixture will be. if they are rich then the injectors are working. it seems as though they are doing as told. now to look for why. vacuum leak being sensed by the map? tps above idle range? ect out of range? iac out of range? egr not closing? there is no crank position sensor on a bullnose, brick nose, or obs. they use the distributor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno2 Posted December 22, 2022 Author Share Posted December 22, 2022 if we are talking about dry soot. flat in appearance and the engine were to be run on the highway with a good tune that will clear up some. burn off. if it is wet and shiny then it is either gas or oil (possibly coolant but that would have to be a major problem to be on more than one). dry soot is not likely to resist sparking and should not really even be noticed. rich fuel air mixture will be. if they are rich then the injectors are working. it seems as though they are doing as told. now to look for why. vacuum leak being sensed by the map? tps above idle range? ect out of range? iac out of range? egr not closing? there is no crank position sensor on a bullnose, brick nose, or obs. they use the distributor. So... today we pulled the radiator because the new one is due tomorrow during the blizzard. While we were at it I pulled the throttle body to clean it up because the inside was filthy. I decided since it was off we should install the new Motorcraft TPS we had laying around. The old one tested to be in spec, but while we were in there why not. We also had a new EGR, actuator and gasket branded Motorcraft laying around. We had the piping that went to the exhaust as well. That came in handy because I had to take the air hammer to the old one to get it off. All of that went back together fine. I don't think this will solve the problem though. Funny story: I was rocking the crank while watching the dizzy rotor yesterday. I just had the cap laying willy nilly on the dizzy with the rotor exposed. I called Gary to discuss the events of the diagnostics. He suggested I do the fuel filter to leave no stones unturned. So I ran to the parts store to get one. Came back, battled with the retainer clips and it was installed. I turned the key a few times to prime the system. Then cranked away with no start. Primed again and cranked away with no start. Then it dawned on me I never put the cap on the dizzy. I looked under the hood to see the cap was in the perfect position to absolutely shred the rotor. So back to the parts store. When I put it in the truck fired right up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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