Larry the Lariat - My 86 F150 4x4

[chirkware]

Do you run a stock alternator or have you upgraded?

Sorry, I didn't catch this question.

After my 2G killed batteries a couple of times and then melted the wires I gave up on replacing it and went with a 130A 3G from a '92 Taurus 3.8l V6.

There's a few wiring changes involving an actual power cable and a Megafuse...

Since you have an ammeter you would need to disable it or have it converted to a voltmeter by Rocketman Innovations (~$50)

Gary has a writeup under 'Bullnose Upgrades' in the documentation.

https://www.garysgaragemahal.com/3g-conversion.html

Ok, so I took a quick look, and I don't see a voltage regulator where this diagram shows ones should be, so I'm assuming that means I have the dreaded 2g alternator?

 

[ArdWrknTrk]

Ok, so I took a quick look, and I don't see a voltage regulator where this diagram shows ones should be, so I'm assuming that means I have the dreaded 2g alternator?

"There's your problem lady!"

So your alternator has two plugs.

One grey regulator plug (ovalish) with green and yellow.wires.

And a chunkier rectangular plug with two black/orange and a white/black wire?

Test first (of course) but consider a 3G upgrade to eliminate dead batteries and the chance of fire.

[ArdWrknTrk]

"There's your problem lady!"

So your alternator has two plugs.

One grey regulator plug (ovalish) with green and yellow.wires.

And a chunkier rectangular plug with two black/orange and a white/black wire?

Test first (of course) but consider a 3G upgrade to eliminate dead batteries and the chance of fire.

When I look at the 86 EVTM it seems the stator wire does not connect to the regulator (the center pin is empty) and the stator only comes out in the rectangular charge wire plug.

This is a little different than my 87. Probably because I have a voltmeter and not an ammeter.

 

[chirkware]

"There's your problem lady!"

So your alternator has two plugs.

One grey regulator plug (ovalish) with green and yellow.wires.

And a chunkier rectangular plug with two black/orange and a white/black wire?

Test first (of course) but consider a 3G upgrade to eliminate dead batteries and the chance of fire.

Of course the wires are caked in 37 years of grime, but here's what I can see:

I can't get where I can make out the colors of those wires at the bottom, other than the obvious BLACK.

I think this is the regulator built into this 2g alternator:

Best I can tell, that's E43F-10316-AA.

I'm out of daylight for the evening, so I'm gonna read up on testing three alternator. If it's bad, and I believe it will be, sounds like the 3g upgrade is probably the way to go. I'd probably be fine just disabling the ammeter. These things seem to work well enough for a voltage meter:

BTW: After 24 hours with the battery on a 2A "maintenance" charge, it reads 13.5v. I'll leave it unhooked and see how it holds it's charge just sitting a couple of days.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Of course the wires are caked in 37 years of grime, but here's what I can see:

I can't get where I can make out the colors of those wires at the bottom, other than the obvious BLACK.

I think this is the regulator built into this 2g alternator:

Best I can tell, that's E43F-10316-AA.

I'm out of daylight for the evening, so I'm gonna read up on testing three alternator. If it's bad, and I believe it will be, sounds like the 3g upgrade is probably the way to go. I'd probably be fine just disabling the ammeter. These things seem to work well enough for a voltage meter:

BTW: After 24 hours with the battery on a 2A "maintenance" charge, it reads 13.5v. I'll leave it unhooked and see how it holds it's charge just sitting a couple of days.

Yes. ASI is the regulator connection.

The black square with an arrow pointing at a screw "ground here to test" is the integral regulator.

See if you can get the lower charge plug free from the alternator housing.

Is there corrosion on the contacts? Is the plug itself melted?

These are the initial concerns outlined in Ford TSB 96214

Hopefully your battery wasn't toasted by a bad alternator.

Feel the back of the alternator to see if it's hot(ish)

This is a sure sign that the diodes inside have failed and are passing current.

If you have a multimeter, with the key out and the doors closed, set the leads and dial to amps, place it between the negative cable and the negative battery post.

There shouldn't be any draw above say 30ma, (radio and/or clock memory)

[chirkware]

Yes. ASI is the regulator connection.

The black square with an arrow pointing at a screw "ground here to test" is the integral regulator.

See if you can get the lower charge plug free from the alternator housing.

Is there corrosion on the contacts? Is the plug itself melted?

These are the initial concerns outlined in Ford TSB 96214

Hopefully your battery wasn't toasted by a bad alternator.

Feel the back of the alternator to see if it's hot(ish)

This is a sure sign that the diodes inside have failed and are passing current.

If you have a multimeter, with the key out and the doors closed, set the leads and dial to amps, place it between the negative cable and the negative battery post.

There shouldn't be any draw above say 30ma, (radio and/or clock memory)

I think I'm just gonna go ahead and upgrade to a 3g alternator. I plan on keeping this truck a long time, so let's just eliminate a known problem area now.

I just submitted an offer on an new old stock Ford remanufactured (I guess it's ROS not NOS) 3g alternator that has one of the recommended part numbers from the conversion guide. Hopefully they accept my offer and I have an alternator for $50. 😃

I'll take some measurements to see what length wire I need. Found this eBay listing where I can get 4awg our copper battery cables made to whatever length I want. I'll get a short piece plus a longer one, and put a 175a megafuse between.

I'll order this harness pigtail as well.

I think that gets most of the parts, but I need to go back and read through the guide again to see if I'm missing anything. I think I still need a 20a fuse on the smaller wire in the harness (I'm partly documenting my thought process here).

I know I need to decide what to do with the ammeter as well. Part of me says just disable it and run the little thing that plugs into a cigarette lighter.

[ArdWrknTrk]

I think I'm just gonna go ahead and upgrade to a 3g alternator. I plan on keeping this truck a long time, so let's just eliminate a known problem area now.

I just submitted an offer on an new old stock Ford remanufactured (I guess it's ROS not NOS) 3g alternator that has one of the recommended part numbers from the conversion guide. Hopefully they accept my offer and I have an alternator for $50. 😃

I'll take some measurements to see what length wire I need. Found this eBay listing where I can get 4awg our copper battery cables made to whatever length I want. I'll get a short piece plus a longer one, and put a 175a megafuse between.

I'll order this harness pigtail as well.

I think that gets most of the parts, but I need to go back and read through the guide again to see if I'm missing anything. I think I still need a 20a fuse on the smaller wire in the harness (I'm partly documenting my thought process here).

I know I need to decide what to do with the ammeter as well. Part of me says just disable it and run the little thing that plugs into a cigarette lighter.

Did you get the 95A (4 hole) or 130A (2 hole) 3G? That would influence the Megafuse you'd want.

The pigtail pair looks good if you have a crimper and some fittings.

I don't think you need to fuse LG/R the exciter wire.

You certainly don't 'need' an ammeter, or a voltmeter....

Unpinning the R/O and Y/G wires at connector (C610)will completely isolate it.

Many of these trucks only had an indicator to show charging.

Unlike Gary's instructions I'd want to know power in the cab like your USB would show.

It seems an expedient solution without opening the cluster.

 

[Gary Lewis]

Did you get the 95A (4 hole) or 130A (2 hole) 3G? That would influence the Megafuse you'd want.

The pigtail pair looks good if you have a crimper and some fittings.

I don't think you need to fuse LG/R the exciter wire.

You certainly don't 'need' an ammeter, or a voltmeter....

Unpinning the R/O and Y/G wires at connector (C610)will completely isolate it.

Many of these trucks only had an indicator to show charging.

Unlike Gary's instructions I'd want to know power in the cab like your USB would show.

It seems an expedient solution without opening the cluster.

Just to show that I'm reading the mail....

I want to know battery/alternator voltage, not after the drop through the wiring. If you want that get a Sony radio like ours, Jim, and put it on voltage display.

If you are getting the 95A alternator you might still be able to run the factory ammeter. I'm pretty sure that the shunt is sized to allow 70 amps as there was a 70A alternator available and I can't see Ford not sizing the shunt for that. I doubt the shunt would be hurt with the extra current but you might see the ammeter make some rapid swings.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Just to show that I'm reading the mail....

I want to know battery/alternator voltage, not after the drop through the wiring. If you want that get a Sony radio like ours, Jim, and put it on voltage display.

If you are getting the 95A alternator you might still be able to run the factory ammeter. I'm pretty sure that the shunt is sized to allow 70 amps as there was a 70A alternator available and I can't see Ford not sizing the shunt for that. I doubt the shunt would be hurt with the extra current but you might see the ammeter make some rapid swings.

As you know my truck came with a voltmeter in the cluster. I don't need to know how much makes it to my radio... edit: I did cycle my radio display today and see 14.1V. So a .25V drop from the 14.35V set point of my 3G regulator

State of charge will definitely show up in the cab.

Not everybody has a winch, 3,000/6,000W inverter, onboard air compressor, and a military radar station loaded in their truck.

The 95A 3G is a very viable upgrade for anyone with a 1 or 2G. It puts out a lot more at low rpm's than either of the earlier units and seems more stable.

IMHO, more than enough for a stock pickup, but if you get into something like electric fans, heated 6-way electric seats, whatever, the bigger option is the better choice.

Edit: rapid swings would be a huge improvement over the stock setup where you don't see anything unless the alternator is cooked or you have a dead short.

I still don't know that the shunt (which is all that's feeding the cab) is sized for 95A+.

In principal it can't be, as that's how it functions. The ammeter failures I've read about come from the ammeter gauge windings turning into a toaster and melting right out the back of the instrument.

If you don't notice that, it burns through the harness and sets the dash on fire.

 

[Gary Lewis]

As you know my truck came with a voltmeter in the cluster. I don't need to know how much makes it to my radio... edit: I did cycle my radio display today and see 14.1V. So a .25V drop from the 14.35V set point of my 3G regulator

State of charge will definitely show up in the cab.

Not everybody has a winch, 3,000/6,000W inverter, onboard air compressor, and a military radar station loaded in their truck.

The 95A 3G is a very viable upgrade for anyone with a 1 or 2G. It puts out a lot more at low rpm's than either of the earlier units and seems more stable.

IMHO, more than enough for a stock pickup, but if you get into something like electric fans, heated 6-way electric seats, whatever, the bigger option is the better choice.

Edit: rapid swings would be a huge improvement over the stock setup where you don't see anything unless the alternator is cooked or you have a dead short.

I still don't know that the shunt (which is all that's feeding the cab) is sized for 95A+.

In principal it can't be, as that's how it functions. The ammeter failures I've read about come from the ammeter gauge windings turning into a toaster and melting right out the back of the instrument.

If you don't notice that, it burns through the harness and sets the dash on fire.

I was with you 'til we got to the radar station. Perhaps that the front/rear cameras & GPS? Or the Garmin GPS?

Yes, I have a lot of electrical load available. But that 130A 3G I got from you does the job. So a 95A unit would be a nice upgrade for most people.