New Tires For Big Blue

[Nothing Special]

On my KO2s I had to drop the some 70 PSI that discount put the tires at and reduce it to OE pressures cause my rear tires were pizza cutters with only the center 3" of tire contacting the pavement due to the tires having such a higher weight rating than the OE tires. So I ran mine down to OE pressures and I saw no reduction in fuel economy was still getting 12 mpg city, but I did see the lower pressure resulted in the truck riding so much smoother.

My KO2s were the same weight rating as my truck had OE (load range E), and at 50/40 I'm actually running below the OE pressures of 55/80. But those pressures are recommended with the GVWR in mind, so if I'm not running at full load I don't feel like it's wise to use the OE recommended pressure.

I have also run at 60/50. I don't see any significant difference in handling from 50/40, and the ride is only slightly "crisper."

I get pretty even wear at 50/40, so I don't see any reason there to go any lower.

And if I could get 12 mpg I'd be elated! I'm pretty happy when I can stay in double digits! Running a little higher tire pressure than a chalk test might suggest might not help much. But where I'm running any help is something to grab hold of!

 

[Lima Delta]

Four of the K02's for the $1434, and that's $291.99/tire or $1167.96 for four. Tire Rack would get me a set to the house for $1167.96, obviously not including mounting, balancing and tax. So that's the $266 difference.

I'll be price checking 'cause they told me they'll match prices. But since the alignment was done at Tate Boys and they will redo it for free so the difference will have to be significant to make me want to change.

For what it's worth I had a set of BFG KOs in 235/85r16 on my truck for 10 years, and they were excellent tires. I'm not sure if the KO2s are that much different, but it seems like it would be hard to wrong with a set of those. I finally got new tires this year. The old KOs still had probably 50% tread left, but were weather cracked.

All that said, I went with a new set of Toyo open country AT3s in the same size this time. I've only had them for maybe 4 months, but already I feel like I can say they're at least as good if not better than the old KOs for what I use them for (which is winter highway driving, towing and off road/farm use). We had some pretty bad late season heavy snow and slush to deal with this year. The Toyos were chewing through 6 inches of slushy snow without any hydroplaning which is more that I can say for the BFGs even when they were new. The other day I was backing a 6000lb trailer up an uneven grassy slope and I was really impressed with the traction. Nice and quiet on the road too.

Just two cents.

Lucas

[Gary Lewis]

On my KO2s I had to drop the some 70 PSI that discount put the tires at and reduce it to OE pressures cause my rear tires were pizza cutters with only the center 3" of tire contacting the pavement due to the tires having such a higher weight rating than the OE tires. So I ran mine down to OE pressures and I saw no reduction in fuel economy was still getting 12 mpg city, but I did see the lower pressure resulted in the truck riding so much smoother.

My KO2s were the same weight rating as my truck had OE (load range E), and at 50/40 I'm actually running below the OE pressures of 55/80. But those pressures are recommended with the GVWR in mind, so if I'm not running at full load I don't feel like it's wise to use the OE recommended pressure.

I have also run at 60/50. I don't see any significant difference in handling from 50/40, and the ride is only slightly "crisper."

I get pretty even wear at 50/40, so I don't see any reason there to go any lower.

And if I could get 12 mpg I'd be elated! I'm pretty happy when I can stay in double digits! Running a little higher tire pressure than a chalk test might suggest might not help much. But where I'm running any help is something to grab hold of!

I've been running 35 psi in the Coopers and that gives even pressure across the tires and seemingly even wear. But I'll experiment on the new tires to see where they run best. Who knows, maybe they'll need 40 or more psi and I'll be over 13 MPG consistently. Wouldn't take much as I'm at 12.8 now.

[Gary Lewis]

For what it's worth I had a set of BFG KOs in 235/85r16 on my truck for 10 years, and they were excellent tires. I'm not sure if the KO2s are that much different, but it seems like it would be hard to wrong with a set of those. I finally got new tires this year. The old KOs still had probably 50% tread left, but were weather cracked.

All that said, I went with a new set of Toyo open country AT3s in the same size this time. I've only had them for maybe 4 months, but already I feel like I can say they're at least as good if not better than the old KOs for what I use them for (which is winter highway driving, towing and off road/farm use). We had some pretty bad late season heavy snow and slush to deal with this year. The Toyos were chewing through 6 inches of slushy snow without any hydroplaning which is more that I can say for the BFGs even when they were new. The other day I was backing a 6000lb trailer up an uneven grassy slope and I was really impressed with the traction. Nice and quiet on the road too.

Just two cents.

Lucas

Thanks, Lucas. I'll read up on those tires.

[Littlebeefy]

Thanks, Lucas. I'll read up on those tires.

Autoweek just put out a review of all-terrain tires. This may be based on payola:

https://www.autoweek.com/gear/g40559896/best-all-terrain-tires

[Gary Lewis]

Autoweek just put out a review of all-terrain tires. This may be based on payola:

https://www.autoweek.com/gear/g40559896/best-all-terrain-tires

Thanks, Chad. And I really do appreciate you giving us that link. However, that's interesting but ... (what was it that Arte Johnsen said?)

They said these two things, with the emphasis added by me:

• We've consulted with our friends at Tire Rack to examine some of the top all terrain tire options. Tire Rack is notorious for its testing and evaluation procedures, and we trust them to help our readers find the best tire, no matter what style they're after.

• We turned to the vehicle manufacturers that offer trucks and SUVs with serious off-road capability to see which all-terrain tires they use as standard equipment. The automakers' engineers work closely with tire manufacturers to develop all-terrain tires that meet rigorous requirements for off-road performance, on-road ride-and-handling, noise level, resistance to punctures, wear, quality, and cost.

So they didn't do any testing. They simply did what I've been doing and perused the Tire Rack tests, and then checked to see what the OEM's put on their vehicles.

And they categorized applications by trucks & SUV's, Jeeps, etc. But I have a pickup I'm using as a Jeep. What tire should I use for that? And, does it really matter what vehicle it is on? Wouldn't it be more for the usage of that vehicle?

Also they said the OEM's choose the tire based on many factors, including cost. So if BFG cut a deal with them to sell the K02's at $2 less/tire than Falken did the A/T3W's then they would probably go that way - especially since there is almost a cult following of that tire.

Again, Chad, I appreciate it. But I'm not impressed with that "review". I have the same info available to me, and I disagree with how they arrived at their results. Tires have certain capabilities, like traction in various conditions and noise on various pavements, regardless of the vehicle you put them on. So to say you want this tire based on the vehicle and not the usage is flawed.

Also, do know what "notorious" means? What are they saying about Tire Rack?

[Littlebeefy]

Thanks, Chad. And I really do appreciate you giving us that link. However, that's interesting but ... (what was it that Arte Johnsen said?)

They said these two things, with the emphasis added by me:

• We've consulted with our friends at Tire Rack to examine some of the top all terrain tire options. Tire Rack is notorious for its testing and evaluation procedures, and we trust them to help our readers find the best tire, no matter what style they're after.

• We turned to the vehicle manufacturers that offer trucks and SUVs with serious off-road capability to see which all-terrain tires they use as standard equipment. The automakers' engineers work closely with tire manufacturers to develop all-terrain tires that meet rigorous requirements for off-road performance, on-road ride-and-handling, noise level, resistance to punctures, wear, quality, and cost.

So they didn't do any testing. They simply did what I've been doing and perused the Tire Rack tests, and then checked to see what the OEM's put on their vehicles.

And they categorized applications by trucks & SUV's, Jeeps, etc. But I have a pickup I'm using as a Jeep. What tire should I use for that? And, does it really matter what vehicle it is on? Wouldn't it be more for the usage of that vehicle?

Also they said the OEM's choose the tire based on many factors, including cost. So if BFG cut a deal with them to sell the K02's at $2 less/tire than Falken did the A/T3W's then they would probably go that way - especially since there is almost a cult following of that tire.

Again, Chad, I appreciate it. But I'm not impressed with that "review". I have the same info available to me, and I disagree with how they arrived at their results. Tires have certain capabilities, like traction in various conditions and noise on various pavements, regardless of the vehicle you put them on. So to say you want this tire based on the vehicle and not the usage is flawed.

Also, do know what "notorious" means? What are they saying about Tire Rack?

All true, Gary. Good to have the links for further research but definitely not for the well informed.

I'd like to throw one other piece of info out related to tires that most people don't know. Tire manufactures now produce N-specification tires. The "N-Spec" is a designation of the version of the tire design. You can find it printed on the tire as N1, N2, etc.

When a vehicle manufacturer designs a car, they often work with the tire manufacturer to customize an N-spec to their particular needs. When you produce enough cars, you get to custom order your tires, essentially. It is EXTREMELY common on newer European cars and tire retailers will often match your required N-spec without you even being aware (or they may not).

Even though our trucks may pre-date an N-spec tire, those tires are still out there new so there are some differences in tires that may seem otherwise identical. Two people may think they have the same tire but there may be subtle differences. Although it isn't brought up much, the N-spec matters; it means there is something different that the vehicle engineers wanted.

[Littlebeefy]

All true, Gary. Good to have the links for further research but definitely not for the well informed.

I'd like to throw one other piece of info out related to tires that most people don't know. Tire manufactures now produce N-specification tires. The "N-Spec" is a designation of the version of the tire design. You can find it printed on the tire as N1, N2, etc.

When a vehicle manufacturer designs a car, they often work with the tire manufacturer to customize an N-spec to their particular needs. When you produce enough cars, you get to custom order your tires, essentially. It is EXTREMELY common on newer European cars and tire retailers will often match your required N-spec without you even being aware (or they may not).

Even though our trucks may pre-date an N-spec tire, those tires are still out there new so there are some differences in tires that may seem otherwise identical. Two people may think they have the same tire but there may be subtle differences. Although it isn't brought up much, the N-spec matters; it means there is something different that the vehicle engineers wanted.

Let me clarify one thing. N-spec is an example for European vehicle tires. Different auto manufactures use different designations for tire versions and most don't use any at all. I just want to make people aware that those types of designation exist and to be cognizant of them.

[Gary Lewis]

Let me clarify one thing. N-spec is an example for European vehicle tires. Different auto manufactures use different designations for tire versions and most don't use any at all. I just want to make people aware that those types of designation exist and to be cognizant of them.

Chad - Thanks. I wasn't aware of the N-spec. But it makes sense that high-volume OEM's can get things custom made to better fit their vehicles.

Lucas - I found that Tire Rack did a test of the Toyo Open Country AT3s vs three other tires, and I added those results to the s/s. I wondered why I hadn't found that test before. But I finally figured it out when I looked up the spec's for an LT285/75R16 - none of those four tires come in my size.

So at this point I think the Falken Wildpeak A/T3W is the leading candidate, with the K02 coming in a very close second. And the wet stopping distance of 135' vs 149', respectively, is a big deciding factor. (And it'll make my son happy that I listened to him.)

I looked on Discount Tire's website and they want $324/tire, which is $32/tire more than Tate Boys and Tire Rack show on their websites. I think I'm just about ready to pull the trigger. Last call!

 

[ArdWrknTrk]

David - To give you a bit more of an idea about the tires, here's the left front. It was the worst of them for cracking, but not the worst for having chunks taken out by the rocks.

I think the issue is that the tires are 10 years old and are hard. So when we aired them down to 15 psi for running the trails they had to flex a lot and they just weren't up for that and cracked. And then when the hard rubber edges of the tread came in contact with the rocks on the trail chunks were torn out.

As said, I don't want to drive all that far and fast on them. I've been ok with day trips as we could get home on the spare. But I don't want to take off for multiple days and have problems on Day 1 and wind up ruining the trip.

You know Gary a lot of stiff carcass (10 ply) tires are not meant to be run at ridiculous low pressures.

I'm not saying your ten year old STT's aren't ozone cracked but under inflation is far worse than over inflation and can lead to a lot of this type of damage.

Mostly because of a stiff carcass causing a lot of heat when forced to flex much more than designed.

I'm reminded of the Firestone ATX/Wilderness tire debacle with the early Exploders... and that was Ford running them only 4 psi below nominal.

Belt separation and chunking caused more than a few deaths.

If you're going to be driving "aired down" over miles of trails (instead of just airing down across challenges) I'd suggest you stop looking at the door sticker and start looking at something like a load C flotation tire.

https://ok4wd.com/blog/what-are-flotation-tires/

At least they would stand a fighting chance.