New Tires For Big Blue

[Nothing Special]

Rusty - I do get rocks stuck in the Coopers, so I'm glad to see the KO2's don't seem to do that.

And I wasn't aware there are two different, but similar, KO2's. However I'll be going with the LT285/75R16's, which are 33", so that shouldn't be an issue.

John - I've not ruled out the Falken, but now realize that the way I was searching didn't really include it. So I'll do some more searching to see what I find.

Looking at Tire Rack's data in my spreadsheet the Falken didn't do quite as well as the K02 in most categories, but bested the K02 in both G-Force dry and wet. Also, I note that at Tire Rack it cost $32/tire more than the K02.

As for MPG, only one of the several-tire tests that Tire Rack did includes MPG, and it didn't include the Falken. So I can't compare the K02 to the Falken. But here's what they said about the group that includes the K02:

I did see a small but noticeable improvement in gas mileage when I switched from the BFG A/Ts to Michelin Agilis. But the Michelins are a street tire, so that's not surprising. If you are looking for an on/off road tire A/Ts are the right place to be looking. I don't really need that on my pickup, which is another factor in my not wanting the KO2s, which really isn't a dig against them. They just aren't a fit for me.

[Nothing Special]

I did see a small but noticeable improvement in gas mileage when I switched from the BFG A/Ts to Michelin Agilis. But the Michelins are a street tire, so that's not surprising. If you are looking for an on/off road tire A/Ts are the right place to be looking. I don't really need that on my pickup, which is another factor in my not wanting the KO2s, which really isn't a dig against them. They just aren't a fit for me.

And thinking about that last part more, that might be a good way to look at how my opinion of the BFG A/T KO2 fits with everyone elses. The KO2 is certainly one of the best A/T tires out there. But I don't need an A/T tire.

On my pickup I need a good load range E street tire that's good on snow and ice and not incapable on wet dirt. Prior to the KO2 version, the BFG A/Ts were a good option for me, but I feel like the KO2 is a significantly less good street tire than its predecessors. It still might be one of the best A/Ts on the street, but it's not good enough for me to move to an A/T from an all-season.

On my Bronco I need good off-road tires and at least decent on-road tires. KO2s could be a fit there. But in my last iteration I'm not trying to do both with one tire. I was running 10.5/33-15 KO2s all the time as a decent compromise, but now I'm running a 12.50/33-15 M/T off road and soon I'll be switching to a 235/85-15 all season tire for on road. I think that will be a good solution for me as I am usually driving to Dairy Queen and only occasionally on trails. Switching tires for my one or two trail trips per year isn't a big deal. So there's no reason for me to use an A/T tire on the Bronco either.

I still think that the KO2 isn't a quiet tire on the street. But it's definitely quieter than most (all?) M/Ts. I don't know where it fits with currently available A/Ts because I don't have experience with any others. But in my experience it is louder than the earlier BFG A/Ts, so it wouldn't surprise me if there are quieter A/Ts out there now.

[Gary Lewis]

And thinking about that last part more, that might be a good way to look at how my opinion of the BFG A/T KO2 fits with everyone elses. The KO2 is certainly one of the best A/T tires out there. But I don't need an A/T tire.

On my pickup I need a good load range E street tire that's good on snow and ice and not incapable on wet dirt. Prior to the KO2 version, the BFG A/Ts were a good option for me, but I feel like the KO2 is a significantly less good street tire than its predecessors. It still might be one of the best A/Ts on the street, but it's not good enough for me to move to an A/T from an all-season.

On my Bronco I need good off-road tires and at least decent on-road tires. KO2s could be a fit there. But in my last iteration I'm not trying to do both with one tire. I was running 10.5/33-15 KO2s all the time as a decent compromise, but now I'm running a 12.50/33-15 M/T off road and soon I'll be switching to a 235/85-15 all season tire for on road. I think that will be a good solution for me as I am usually driving to Dairy Queen and only occasionally on trails. Switching tires for my one or two trail trips per year isn't a big deal. So there's no reason for me to use an A/T tire on the Bronco either.

I still think that the KO2 isn't a quiet tire on the street. But it's definitely quieter than most (all?) M/Ts. I don't know where it fits with currently available A/Ts because I don't have experience with any others. But in my experience it is louder than the earlier BFG A/Ts, so it wouldn't surprise me if there are quieter A/Ts out there now.

Bob - Good observations. There are differing situations in which the vehicles are used, and those situations should help determine which tire is best. (I emphasized "should" as I doubt that the vast majority of the people running A/T tires actually need them as their mall-crawlers never leave the pavement. Instead, they want the look of the aggressive tire.)

In your case you don't really need an A/T tire, much less an aggressive one like the K02, so it isn't a good fit for you. In my case I think an aggressive A/T tire is exactly what I do need since I will drive on the highway to get where I am going offroading, but sure don't want to get stuck when I do leave the road.

This discussion is helping me get my head around "tires", and I appreciate it. So let me try to state what I think I'm learning:

As it turns out, within the A/T category itself there are large variations in design, as we've seen with the K02's vs the Yokohama A/T G015. The K02 is obviously a more aggressive tire than the G015, and that probably explains why in the "review" on TireWheelGuide the G015 is a little quieter than the K02 but the latter is much better offroad. (That site has links for many different "reviews", using the term lightly, of both of those tires vs other tires, so is a good place to start research.)

But there are other micro-categories within the A/T tires, like On-/Off-Road Commercial Traction for my current Cooper S/T Maxx tires. And looking at the specs I see that my tires are 62 lbs each while the same sized K02's or the Falken A/T3W's are 59 lbs. So that extra 3 lbs may make a difference in both ride and MPG.

And then there are the subjective owner's ratings on Tire Rack, which are questionable in my book since they are just opinions w/o quantitative testing. But the owners rate the Maxx at 7.1 on ride quality and 6.7 on noise while the K02 owners rate them at 8.5 and 8.2. And the Falken owners rate them at 8.9 and 8.3 respectively. Since it isn't likely that the same person owns both tires, much less all three, I wouldn't put much faith in minor differences. But the difference between a 6.7 and an 8.2 is significant, so I expect that a K02 or an A/T3W is noticeably quieter than the tires I have - especially since the tires I have are scalloped and have chunks missing.

Oddly enough, the owners of the Yokohama Geolandar M/T G003's rate them as a 8.8 for ride quality and an 8.2 for noise. So using those numbers you'd expect that the G003's would ride better and create the same noise as the K02's. But I suspect that those people are comparing those tires to other M/T tires they've owned, so you probably shouldn't compare ratings between categories.

 

[Rusty_S85]

Rusty - I do get rocks stuck in the Coopers, so I'm glad to see the KO2's don't seem to do that.

And I wasn't aware there are two different, but similar, KO2's. However I'll be going with the LT285/75R16's, which are 33", so that shouldn't be an issue.

John - I've not ruled out the Falken, but now realize that the way I was searching didn't really include it. So I'll do some more searching to see what I find.

Looking at Tire Rack's data in my spreadsheet the Falken didn't do quite as well as the K02 in most categories, but bested the K02 in both G-Force dry and wet. Also, I note that at Tire Rack it cost $32/tire more than the K02.

As for MPG, only one of the several-tire tests that Tire Rack did includes MPG, and it didn't include the Falken. So I can't compare the K02 to the Falken. But here's what they said about the group that includes the K02:

https://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/file/n121419/Tire_Rack_Fuel_Mileage.jpg

Yep the P-Metric and the LT rated tires they would be a little different in shape than the old measurements like mine 31x10.50-15. It was odd that they did that but I had a guy at work he has KO2s on his diesel truck they are roughly the same heigth 31" as mine but his was the LT I think version and the knobs on the shoulder didnt look as aggressive as the knobs on mine. I could never get BFG to give me an answer why the 31x10.50-15 KO2s look different than the other sizes of the same/similar dimensions. I dont think it changes the performance any of the tire, it just when you look at them side by side they just dont look the same even if they are of similar dimensions.

You and everyone else might not notice something like that but for me its something my eyes picked up on cause it caught my attention.

[Rusty_S85]

And thinking about that last part more, that might be a good way to look at how my opinion of the BFG A/T KO2 fits with everyone elses. The KO2 is certainly one of the best A/T tires out there. But I don't need an A/T tire.

On my pickup I need a good load range E street tire that's good on snow and ice and not incapable on wet dirt. Prior to the KO2 version, the BFG A/Ts were a good option for me, but I feel like the KO2 is a significantly less good street tire than its predecessors. It still might be one of the best A/Ts on the street, but it's not good enough for me to move to an A/T from an all-season.

On my Bronco I need good off-road tires and at least decent on-road tires. KO2s could be a fit there. But in my last iteration I'm not trying to do both with one tire. I was running 10.5/33-15 KO2s all the time as a decent compromise, but now I'm running a 12.50/33-15 M/T off road and soon I'll be switching to a 235/85-15 all season tire for on road. I think that will be a good solution for me as I am usually driving to Dairy Queen and only occasionally on trails. Switching tires for my one or two trail trips per year isn't a big deal. So there's no reason for me to use an A/T tire on the Bronco either.

I still think that the KO2 isn't a quiet tire on the street. But it's definitely quieter than most (all?) M/Ts. I don't know where it fits with currently available A/Ts because I don't have experience with any others. But in my experience it is louder than the earlier BFG A/Ts, so it wouldn't surprise me if there are quieter A/Ts out there now.

Its like the KO1s the previous version of the A/Ts, they were great they were an A/T tire but they discontinued it for the KO2 with its knobbier shoulders for improved off road traction and while they still look good, it caused an issue I never had before with my tires and that is at lock the shoulder rubs my suspension arm. Never did it with 31x10.50-15 KO1s, never did it with 31x10.50-15 Discount brand Pathfinders. But threw on the 31x10.50-15 KO2s and at lock they rub the suspension and the knobs at slow enough speed will lock the tire up so it greatly reduced my swb turning radius that I had with previous tires. If I could get the KO1s I would go with it, but when I go to replace the KO2s in a couple years when they hit 7 years old I dont know if I will go back with them even though I think they are great tires. I just dont like how I cant turn lock to lock on my truck because of those stupid shoulder knobs.

[mat in tn]

Rusty - I do get rocks stuck in the Coopers, so I'm glad to see the KO2's don't seem to do that.

And I wasn't aware there are two different, but similar, KO2's. However I'll be going with the LT285/75R16's, which are 33", so that shouldn't be an issue.

John - I've not ruled out the Falken, but now realize that the way I was searching didn't really include it. So I'll do some more searching to see what I find.

Looking at Tire Rack's data in my spreadsheet the Falken didn't do quite as well as the K02 in most categories, but bested the K02 in both G-Force dry and wet. Also, I note that at Tire Rack it cost $32/tire more than the K02.

As for MPG, only one of the several-tire tests that Tire Rack did includes MPG, and it didn't include the Falken. So I can't compare the K02 to the Falken. But here's what they said about the group that includes the K02:

the only comment I can or would dare offer would be from my own personal experience.

I had bfg ko2 on my lifted van. they were sure footed and firm riding and did well on the highway, but I could hear them for sure. I could not say about off road performance because it was just a two-wheel drive and I only had it for a year before moving it on.

the second that i had the bfg ko2 on was my expedition. 265/75/17. i just replaced them a few weeks back because i could not stand the noise anymore. I'm actually sorry to my wife for not replacing them sooner since she drives it the most. I rarely go off the pavement in it unless we are crossing grass to get to a campsite etc. it's not a woods truck.

I do have the Falken Wild peak at3 on bubba. 32/11.5/15. on 10" wheels. it's a lifted 2wd with a "tight" trac loc. I go anywhere I want to go but I don't go mudding or rock crawling without 4wd. they are the quietest at tires I have ever known, and this is my second set. drive is great. ride is great. wet or dry traction is great. if I spin, I'm trying to, or I am empty giving no grip. traction does require force against force after all.

[ArdWrknTrk]

I'm not going to have any input Gary, but I'm following along to see what's said.

I have some mismatched tires now since I needed a clean pair for the front when I had it rebuilt and aligned.

My use case is probably 97% street but we do have to deal with snow and ice in winter.

The path to the paddock is rutted and can get muddy, as can job sites.

So I have a pair of remoulded Treadwright's on the rear and some Khumo AT51's on the front in stock 235/85 size.

Definitely not premium tires but they seem to suit my needs and wallet.

I was happy with the Treadwright's but couldn't get another pair when I needed them.

[Gary Lewis]

And thinking about that last part more, that might be a good way to look at how my opinion of the BFG A/T KO2 fits with everyone elses. The KO2 is certainly one of the best A/T tires out there. But I don't need an A/T tire.

On my pickup I need a good load range E street tire that's good on snow and ice and not incapable on wet dirt. Prior to the KO2 version, the BFG A/Ts were a good option for me, but I feel like the KO2 is a significantly less good street tire than its predecessors. It still might be one of the best A/Ts on the street, but it's not good enough for me to move to an A/T from an all-season.

On my Bronco I need good off-road tires and at least decent on-road tires. KO2s could be a fit there. But in my last iteration I'm not trying to do both with one tire. I was running 10.5/33-15 KO2s all the time as a decent compromise, but now I'm running a 12.50/33-15 M/T off road and soon I'll be switching to a 235/85-15 all season tire for on road. I think that will be a good solution for me as I am usually driving to Dairy Queen and only occasionally on trails. Switching tires for my one or two trail trips per year isn't a big deal. So there's no reason for me to use an A/T tire on the Bronco either.

I still think that the KO2 isn't a quiet tire on the street. But it's definitely quieter than most (all?) M/Ts. I don't know where it fits with currently available A/Ts because I don't have experience with any others. But in my experience it is louder than the earlier BFG A/Ts, so it wouldn't surprise me if there are quieter A/Ts out there now.

Its like the KO1s the previous version of the A/Ts, they were great they were an A/T tire but they discontinued it for the KO2 with its knobbier shoulders for improved off road traction and while they still look good, it caused an issue I never had before with my tires and that is at lock the shoulder rubs my suspension arm. Never did it with 31x10.50-15 KO1s, never did it with 31x10.50-15 Discount brand Pathfinders. But threw on the 31x10.50-15 KO2s and at lock they rub the suspension and the knobs at slow enough speed will lock the tire up so it greatly reduced my swb turning radius that I had with previous tires. If I could get the KO1s I would go with it, but when I go to replace the KO2s in a couple years when they hit 7 years old I dont know if I will go back with them even though I think they are great tires. I just dont like how I cant turn lock to lock on my truck because of those stupid shoulder knobs.

Thanks, Rusty.

And thanks, Matt. Good info about the K02's being noisy and the Falkens quiet. To get that info from one person is very helpful. Oddly enough that doesn't fit with some of what I am reading, but I know you and don't know them so believe you more than them.

Jim - Glad you are following along. If you see me go off the reservation please let me know.

I've done a bit more reading about the K02 vs the Falken AT3W. And it is CONFUSING!!!!! Man, people have their opinions and want to share them. Reading about these tires on other forums is like looking in your email spam folder. I'm sure glad you guys are civil and share your experiences in a humble way.

I'm still taking input, so please keep it coming. But I found a couple of places that seem to have reasonable information:

• CompareTheTire: Overall this seems to favor the Falken, with the only downsides being that it doesn't have stone ejectors and, due to the higher void ratio will produce more sound.

• Blackcircles Canada: This was done in Feb of this year and it does have the AT3W. But it doesn't say a lot save for: "Both offer good traction on paved roads, but the Falken Wildpeak AT3W delivers a less comfortable ride. It is noisier and does not absorb road vibrations. The BF Goodrich KO2 offers better overall comfort on paved roads."

[ArdWrknTrk]

Thanks, Rusty.

And thanks, Matt. Good info about the K02's being noisy and the Falkens quiet. To get that info from one person is very helpful. Oddly enough that doesn't fit with some of what I am reading, but I know you and don't know them so believe you more than them.

Jim - Glad you are following along. If you see me go off the reservation please let me know.

I've done a bit more reading about the K02 vs the Falken AT3W. And it is CONFUSING!!!!! Man, people have their opinions and want to share them. Reading about these tires on other forums is like looking in your email spam folder. I'm sure glad you guys are civil and share your experiences in a humble way.

I'm still taking input, so please keep it coming. But I found a couple of places that seem to have reasonable information:

• CompareTheTire: Overall this seems to favor the Falken, with the only downsides being that it doesn't have stone ejectors and, due to the higher void ratio will produce more sound.

• Blackcircles Canada: This was done in Feb of this year and it does have the AT3W. But it doesn't say a lot save for: "Both offer good traction on paved roads, but the Falken Wildpeak AT3W delivers a less comfortable ride. It is noisier and does not absorb road vibrations. The BF Goodrich KO2 offers better overall comfort on paved roads."

I think you've got things well in hand Gary.

Do you also go looking to see how the Coopers you have now are compared to the tires you're contemplating?

I don't really give too much weight to individuals opinions online.

They often don't have any experience with comparable items or are parroting some advertising hype.

I'm sure that some DO know what they're talking about but it's often lost in the background noise.

If you want some acrimony bordering on politics and religion perhaps you should start an oil thread???

[mat in tn]

Thanks, Rusty.

And thanks, Matt. Good info about the K02's being noisy and the Falkens quiet. To get that info from one person is very helpful. Oddly enough that doesn't fit with some of what I am reading, but I know you and don't know them so believe you more than them.

Jim - Glad you are following along. If you see me go off the reservation please let me know.

I've done a bit more reading about the K02 vs the Falken AT3W. And it is CONFUSING!!!!! Man, people have their opinions and want to share them. Reading about these tires on other forums is like looking in your email spam folder. I'm sure glad you guys are civil and share your experiences in a humble way.

I'm still taking input, so please keep it coming. But I found a couple of places that seem to have reasonable information:

• CompareTheTire: Overall this seems to favor the Falken, with the only downsides being that it doesn't have stone ejectors and, due to the higher void ratio will produce more sound.

• Blackcircles Canada: This was done in Feb of this year and it does have the AT3W. But it doesn't say a lot save for: "Both offer good traction on paved roads, but the Falken Wildpeak AT3W delivers a less comfortable ride. It is noisier and does not absorb road vibrations. The BF Goodrich KO2 offers better overall comfort on paved roads."

of course, there are other variables that must be factored in yet are way too often overlooked or even ignored. not everyone writing a review is aware or even recognizes the affect of proper geometry and alignment, or shocks. we all tend to take these for granted now and then. once any of these allows irregular wear the noises can show up and then take a very long time to "wear in" to the point of cleaning up, if they ever do. I have seen a bad component need to get replaced and tire wear was a result which caused a roar and it never cleared up. I know these are known potential issues but many who are writing reviews may be only aware of their new tire purchases and may not be mechanically savvy.