New Tires For Big Blue

[Gary Lewis]

I think you've got things well in hand Gary.

Do you also go looking to see how the Coopers you have now are compared to the tires you're contemplating?

I don't really give too much weight to individuals opinions online.

They often don't have any experience with comparable items or are parroting some advertising hype.

I'm sure that some DO know what they're talking about but it's often lost in the background noise.

If you want some acrimony bordering on politics and religion perhaps you should start an oil thread???

I found what appeared to be a very good conversation about the K02's and AT3W's at Expedition Portal. Then it all went south on the 2nd page.

I don't want us to have those problems, Jim, so I'll stay away from discussing oil.

As for the Coopers I'm running, I did find this thread on Expedition Portal about the Maxx vs K02's. There are interesting things said there:

• The Cooper ST-MAXXs are much more aggressive tires - a hybrid all terrain/mud terrain tire, while the BFG KO2s are just an all-terrain tire. A more direct competitor to the KO2 would be Cooper's Discoverer AT3 which solidly outperforms the BFG KOs. While I've had many sets of KOs, I do not have any experience with the KO2s; with that said, I find the ST-MAXX to be superior on-road (although more tire hum while cornering, due to the MAXX's mud-terrain-like shoulder lugs) and world's better off-road than the KOs ever were. Cooper really nailed it with their magical rubber compound that simply doesn't care how wet the asphalt is, and their engineers somehow managed to make this aggressive tire so quiet. The ST-MAXXs also provide much deeper tread which enhances off-road traction and of course gives a longer life. The KO2s are undoubtedly upgraded over the KOs, so I'm dying to see a comparison between them and the current benchmark, the AT3s. However, I wanted a more offroad-oriented tire so I chose the ST-MAXXs.

• CR, I have a ST Maxx on my Dodge 2500, my son has KO2s on his second gen 1500 and my wife has AT3 on her Grand Cherokee. The KO2 is way more aggressive than the AT3. They are not comparative tires. The ST Maxx clears a little better in sticky mud than the KO2. Both ST Maxx and KO2 are good in snow and slush. AT3 is good in snow, not real good in mud.

  So, based on your info on the application, your best choices will between the ST Maxx and KO2. We really like both tires and the performance is really close. My son and I wheel together, the trucks are essentially the same- open diffs factory gearing, 2 in leveling kit, exact same tire size 285s, and we go at the same time. There is no discernible performance difference. Both tires perform very well with surprisingly similar characteristics.

• There's been a number of threads about the Cooper ST Maxx and I've posted on a few of them how much I liked the tire over the BFG ATs and the BFG Mud Terrains based on how they wore (chunking) and performed while off-roading on my pig big. I run the 315 x 70x 17 and they had about 9K miles on them. That said, I went out to meet some friends in Parker, AZ to run a few trails and enjoy the weekend. I drove my usual 80 mph for about 350 miles from southern Cal, arrived and called it a night. The next morning I did a walk around the vehicle as I do each time before I go off-roading. I'm sure glad I didn't forget as I noticed in three of the four tires severe cracking of the rubber about a quarter inch from where the tire meets the rim. The cracking was pretty deep and I became alarmed after the long trip at high speed in a giant truck. Don't know how it happened but didn't notice before the drive. I bowed out of the morning run and ran up to Havasu to have the tires inspected. We un-mounted them and did the ole' pull up from the inside of the tire and lift. Sure enough, those cracks were very deep. Not sure what may have caused them but they didn't have any Coopers in stock and I wasn't going to lose the weekend to bad tires. I made a decision to buy a new set and the only ones they had four of were the new K02's. Put em on and drove back to Parker. My wife, who was with me, immediately noticed how much smoother and quitter these tires were and I tended to agree but of course they aren't as aggressive. They also handled better on pavement. I was a little worried about them because I chunked up the original BFG AT's that came with the truck and I knew I'd be wheeling in steep and very rocky terrain where I thought this may happen again. I'll tell you the new AT's did a great job with zero chunking. I even had to strap tow an early 70's FJ about 12 miles through loose and steep terrain with many sharp turns. Tires performed very well. Any way, thought I'd share a seat of the pants story that just happened as its an applicable comparison.

I find the statement in the first bullet about the quietness of the Maxx tires odd since the Tire Rack info shows them to be much more noisy than the K02's or, for that matter, about anything else in that category. So I was pleased when later in the thread there was the 3rd statement that says the K02's were quieter than the Maxx tires on the same vehicle driven by the same people.

My Coopers have massive balance weights on them, as has been discussed in many posts. And that seems to be fairly common with these tires. Very heavy and not well balanced. Fortunately both the K02's and A/T3W's are said to be easy to balance.

So I plan to move away from the Maxx tires.

[ArdWrknTrk]

I found what appeared to be a very good conversation about the K02's and AT3W's at Expedition Portal. Then it all went south on the 2nd page.

I don't want us to have those problems, Jim, so I'll stay away from discussing oil.

As for the Coopers I'm running, I did find this thread on Expedition Portal about the Maxx vs K02's. There are interesting things said there:

• The Cooper ST-MAXXs are much more aggressive tires - a hybrid all terrain/mud terrain tire, while the BFG KO2s are just an all-terrain tire. A more direct competitor to the KO2 would be Cooper's Discoverer AT3 which solidly outperforms the BFG KOs. While I've had many sets of KOs, I do not have any experience with the KO2s; with that said, I find the ST-MAXX to be superior on-road (although more tire hum while cornering, due to the MAXX's mud-terrain-like shoulder lugs) and world's better off-road than the KOs ever were. Cooper really nailed it with their magical rubber compound that simply doesn't care how wet the asphalt is, and their engineers somehow managed to make this aggressive tire so quiet. The ST-MAXXs also provide much deeper tread which enhances off-road traction and of course gives a longer life. The KO2s are undoubtedly upgraded over the KOs, so I'm dying to see a comparison between them and the current benchmark, the AT3s. However, I wanted a more offroad-oriented tire so I chose the ST-MAXXs.

• CR, I have a ST Maxx on my Dodge 2500, my son has KO2s on his second gen 1500 and my wife has AT3 on her Grand Cherokee. The KO2 is way more aggressive than the AT3. They are not comparative tires. The ST Maxx clears a little better in sticky mud than the KO2. Both ST Maxx and KO2 are good in snow and slush. AT3 is good in snow, not real good in mud.

  So, based on your info on the application, your best choices will between the ST Maxx and KO2. We really like both tires and the performance is really close. My son and I wheel together, the trucks are essentially the same- open diffs factory gearing, 2 in leveling kit, exact same tire size 285s, and we go at the same time. There is no discernible performance difference. Both tires perform very well with surprisingly similar characteristics.

• There's been a number of threads about the Cooper ST Maxx and I've posted on a few of them how much I liked the tire over the BFG ATs and the BFG Mud Terrains based on how they wore (chunking) and performed while off-roading on my pig big. I run the 315 x 70x 17 and they had about 9K miles on them. That said, I went out to meet some friends in Parker, AZ to run a few trails and enjoy the weekend. I drove my usual 80 mph for about 350 miles from southern Cal, arrived and called it a night. The next morning I did a walk around the vehicle as I do each time before I go off-roading. I'm sure glad I didn't forget as I noticed in three of the four tires severe cracking of the rubber about a quarter inch from where the tire meets the rim. The cracking was pretty deep and I became alarmed after the long trip at high speed in a giant truck. Don't know how it happened but didn't notice before the drive. I bowed out of the morning run and ran up to Havasu to have the tires inspected. We un-mounted them and did the ole' pull up from the inside of the tire and lift. Sure enough, those cracks were very deep. Not sure what may have caused them but they didn't have any Coopers in stock and I wasn't going to lose the weekend to bad tires. I made a decision to buy a new set and the only ones they had four of were the new K02's. Put em on and drove back to Parker. My wife, who was with me, immediately noticed how much smoother and quitter these tires were and I tended to agree but of course they aren't as aggressive. They also handled better on pavement. I was a little worried about them because I chunked up the original BFG AT's that came with the truck and I knew I'd be wheeling in steep and very rocky terrain where I thought this may happen again. I'll tell you the new AT's did a great job with zero chunking. I even had to strap tow an early 70's FJ about 12 miles through loose and steep terrain with many sharp turns. Tires performed very well. Any way, thought I'd share a seat of the pants story that just happened as its an applicable comparison.

I find the statement in the first bullet about the quietness of the Maxx tires odd since the Tire Rack info shows them to be much more noisy than the K02's or, for that matter, about anything else in that category. So I was pleased when later in the thread there was the 3rd statement that says the K02's were quieter than the Maxx tires on the same vehicle driven by the same people.

My Coopers have massive balance weights on them, as has been discussed in many posts. And that seems to be fairly common with these tires. Very heavy and not well balanced. Fortunately both the K02's and A/T3W's are said to be easy to balance.

So I plan to move away from the Maxx tires.

I knew you were ditching the ST MAXX but wondered if meaningful comparisons made with them would give you some idea what to expect from other tires you might mount on Big Blue.

Do you plan to buy five, and keep the spare in rotation?

[Gary Lewis]

of course, there are other variables that must be factored in yet are way too often overlooked or even ignored. not everyone writing a review is aware or even recognizes the affect of proper geometry and alignment, or shocks. we all tend to take these for granted now and then. once any of these allows irregular wear the noises can show up and then take a very long time to "wear in" to the point of cleaning up, if they ever do. I have seen a bad component need to get replaced and tire wear was a result which caused a roar and it never cleared up. I know these are known potential issues but many who are writing reviews may be only aware of their new tire purchases and may not be mechanically savvy.

Matt - I missed your post as I was typing. But you are right, I don't think many of those posting are aware of or care about the other issues. That's why I was pleased to find that post about the guy replacing the Maxx tires with the K02's. Nothing changed, so that should have been a fair comparison - although the original tires may have flat-spotted due to problems previously, and that would make a difference in noise. (Which may well be the case with Big Blue.)

[Gary Lewis]

I knew you were ditching the ST MAXX but wondered if meaningful comparisons made with them would give you some idea what to expect from other tires you might mount on Big Blue.

Do you plan to buy five, and keep the spare in rotation?

Yes, I think those comparisons are telling me - the Coopers are noisy.

As for the spare, the Cooper is in good shape so I'm thinking about buying only 4 and rotating just them. Thoughts?

Another approach would be to buy another wheel and tire so I have two spares. But I don't really think I need that if I have a good patch kit and the air compressor.

[grumpin]

Yes, I think those comparisons are telling me - the Coopers are noisy.

As for the spare, the Cooper is in good shape so I'm thinking about buying only 4 and rotating just them. Thoughts?

Another approach would be to buy another wheel and tire so I have two spares. But I don't really think I need that if I have a good patch kit and the air compressor.

This is interesting.

Seems the one way to tell if you like them is to buy them and drive them.

I think the KO2’s are quiet. I have Coopers (I think Discoverers), on my Xterra and the GMC. I hear them a little in the Xterra, but a lot in my GMC. To the point I was worried about the front bearings.

I had BFG Terrain Trail or something like that on the Xterra. Couldn’t get KO2’s in that size, and there’s not room without modification for bigger tires.

I opted for the Coopers this go around. The BFG’s wore well but I think that contributed to them not doing as well in ice and snow. The Coopers have done well in ice and snow, but I’ll probably try something else next time.

[grumpin]

Yes, I think those comparisons are telling me - the Coopers are noisy.

As for the spare, the Cooper is in good shape so I'm thinking about buying only 4 and rotating just them. Thoughts?

Another approach would be to buy another wheel and tire so I have two spares. But I don't really think I need that if I have a good patch kit and the air compressor.

My thinking is, if you have two spares you’ll never need one. If you have one spare you’ll need three!

[ArdWrknTrk]

Yes, I think those comparisons are telling me - the Coopers are noisy.

As for the spare, the Cooper is in good shape so I'm thinking about buying only 4 and rotating just them. Thoughts?

Another approach would be to buy another wheel and tire so I have two spares. But I don't really think I need that if I have a good patch kit and the air compressor.

I was just wondering.

I know your tires aren't that old.

I like to keep an eye on my undermount spare and swap it out periodically.

I'm sure it doesn't match.

[Nothing Special]

.... Seems the one way to tell if you like them is to buy them and drive them....

... for a long time. When I got my KO2s in 2016 I posted on FTE:

That was all a few weeks ago, so now with over 1000 miles on it I can report on the KO2s. I have kind of mixed feelings about them. I don't like the looks of them nearly as much as the older BFGs. The heavy tread extending up the sidewall is "hip" now, but I really don't care for it. Also the truck now pulls back and forth with road grooves. I haven't had that happen with any truck with BFGs before. On the plus side they're as quiet as I expected and they're GREAT in snowy roads. I'll definitely keep them until they wear out, but the jury is still out on whether I'll go back to them when these need replacing.

Then 4 1/2 years later I posted:

That's what I thought of the BFG All-Terrian KO2s after 1000 miles back in 2016 when I had just bought them. Now it was time to replace them and the jury came back with a verdict of guilty. Up to this point every tire I've bought for any of my trucks (including a CJ5 and me early Bronco) has been BFG. 9 sets of ATs and 3 sets of MTs. That streak is over. I don't like the KO2s. I never got to like the more aggressive look of the tread extending way up the sidewalls, the "tracking" with road grooves didn't improve, and they didn't stay quiet. They developed a whine that was getting pretty annoying.

(not meaning to try to trump any one. I just thought about the fact that I did post on the tires when it was fresh in my mind and thought that might be useful.

[Gary Lewis]

I was just wondering.

I know your tires aren't that old.

I like to keep an eye on my undermount spare and swap it out periodically.

I'm sure it doesn't match.

Dane - There are several Cooper Discoverer tires in my size of LT285/75R16: Discoverer AT3 XLT called an On-/Off-Road All-Terrain; Discoverer S/T MAXX called an On-/Off-Road Commercial Traction; & Discoverer STT PRO called an Off-Road Maximum Traction. And then there's the Evolution M/T that's also called an Off-Road Maximum Traction. You can see them here.

As for a spare or two, I have a second spare tire on what is likely to be the original spare wheel. Although it is a narrow tire I think it is the same diameter as the ones I have on the truck so would make a reasonable 2nd spare. The tire itself seems ok as it was under the truck and didn't see much UV. I'll check to see if it is thin enough to sit on top of the existing spare in the bed and still have the cover close. If so it won't take up much room, although I doubt the HiLift jack would fit on top of the two under the cover, so I'd have to figure something out for it.

 

[Gary Lewis]

.... Seems the one way to tell if you like them is to buy them and drive them....

... for a long time. When I got my KO2s in 2016 I posted on FTE:

That was all a few weeks ago, so now with over 1000 miles on it I can report on the KO2s. I have kind of mixed feelings about them. I don't like the looks of them nearly as much as the older BFGs. The heavy tread extending up the sidewall is "hip" now, but I really don't care for it. Also the truck now pulls back and forth with road grooves. I haven't had that happen with any truck with BFGs before. On the plus side they're as quiet as I expected and they're GREAT in snowy roads. I'll definitely keep them until they wear out, but the jury is still out on whether I'll go back to them when these need replacing.

Then 4 1/2 years later I posted:

That's what I thought of the BFG All-Terrian KO2s after 1000 miles back in 2016 when I had just bought them. Now it was time to replace them and the jury came back with a verdict of guilty. Up to this point every tire I've bought for any of my trucks (including a CJ5 and me early Bronco) has been BFG. 9 sets of ATs and 3 sets of MTs. That streak is over. I don't like the KO2s. I never got to like the more aggressive look of the tread extending way up the sidewalls, the "tracking" with road grooves didn't improve, and they didn't stay quiet. They developed a whine that was getting pretty annoying.

(not meaning to try to trump any one. I just thought about the fact that I did post on the tires when it was fresh in my mind and thought that might be useful.

That is useful, Bob. Especially the part about "They developed a whine that was getting pretty annoying." That would certainly upset me.

On the road groove issue, I'm sure you played with tire pressures. I ask because I remember so very well a 1980 Chevy Citation X11 we bought new. It had wide tires and on I-70 headed to Colorado I had to constantly fight it as it did NOT play nicely with the grooves. Turned out that raising the tire pressure a few pounds above the recommended level fixed that as it got the center of the tire carrying more of the load instead of the edges. But I'll bet you tried that and it didn't work.

One thing that I read a lot about the K02s is that they are poor in the wet. In fact, apparently my son read the same thing as when I told him that I'm considering the K02s that was the first thing he said. Given that, if I were to buy today I think I'd go with the Falken WildPeak A/T3W's. They are a little bit better in the wet than the K02's are, as shown in the excerpt from the spreadsheet below. So I can tell him I listened.

Manufacturer BF Goodrich Falken

Tire BFG T/A KO2 WildPeak A/T3W

Road Ride

Ride Quality 6.86 6.63

Noise 7.05 6.75

Steering 7.07 6.63

Overall Road 6.99 6.67

 

Wet Test Track

Braking 6.63 6.50

Steering 6.60 6.00

Cornering 6.24 6.50

Handling 6.32 6.00

Overall Rating 6.45 6.25

 

Stopping - Dry 100.30 99.70

Stopping - Wet 148.50 135.20

G-Force - Dry 0.69 0.79

G-Force - Wet 0.50 0.60