Dragging/Binding Starter

[LARIAT 85]

Lucille has developed a problem that has happened twice the last three times I have driven her. The first time was after stopping to get gas. I went to re-start the engine, and the starter began to turn, but it dragged way too slow to turn the motor over, then it seemed to bind up, and then it kicked back. I tried three more times and got the same result. So I went out and tapped the starter motor and the starter relay with a wrench. And then the engine started normally. Except it put one heck of a drain on the battery. It took about 15 minutes of driving to get the ammeter back to the correct spot on the gauge.

The next drive was a week later, and everything worked perfectly normal.

Today, it acted up again. Same symptoms as described above, except I was home this time after a 30-minute drive. So I got out and tapped the starter motor and tried again. No change. So then I tapped the starter relay, and that got the starter to work normally again.

In both instances, the starter worked perfectly normal when the engine was cold.

So what is the problem?

Bad starter relay?

Or bad starter motor?

[Gsmblue]

Sure sounds like the starter to me.

I suspect if it was the relay it would either not engage, do the click thing or would "stick".

[grumpin]

Could be bad contacts in the starter relay.

[mat in tn]

Could be bad contacts in the starter relay.

definitely start by cleaning the contacts at the cable terminals on the solenoid on the fender

[ratdude747]

Are you using the stock "moving shoe" starter or a later model PMGR? If you do swap starters, a PMGR conversion is recommended due to the relative ease of the swap (move the power cable to battery + and run a 12 gauge wire from the relay to the motor's solenoid), lower current draw, and faster cranking speed.

[Machspeed]

Lucille has developed a problem that has happened twice the last three times I have driven her. The first time was after stopping to get gas. I went to re-start the engine, and the starter began to turn, but it dragged way too slow to turn the motor over, then it seemed to bind up, and then it kicked back. I tried three more times and got the same result. So I went out and tapped the starter motor and the starter relay with a wrench. And then the engine started normally. Except it put one heck of a drain on the battery. It took about 15 minutes of driving to get the ammeter back to the correct spot on the gauge.

The next drive was a week later, and everything worked perfectly normal.

Today, it acted up again. Same symptoms as described above, except I was home this time after a 30-minute drive. So I got out and tapped the starter motor and tried again. No change. So then I tapped the starter relay, and that got the starter to work normally again.

In both instances, the starter worked perfectly normal when the engine was cold.

So what is the problem?

Bad starter relay?

Or bad starter motor?

Exactly what mine did. Started up great when cold but after running a bit, would drag. Couple times thought it was going to leave me stranded. I just replaced it this past weekend. My starter was the OEM unit and I suspect the bushings were wore out. I replaced it with a PMGR unit from a 90's model F150, which is much smaller, lighter, and far more efficient. The PMGR starter is a great improvement over the original starter type.

 

[ArdWrknTrk]

Have your headers finally cooked your starter?

Is the DSII starter retard function still working with your module?

Where is your static timing set?

Installing a later PMGR style starter is a definite improvement if you end up having to replace it anyhow.

If the headers are tight consider a reflective shield made of stainless steel or something.

Quality fender relays usually don't go out on their own. They succumb to the increased amperage demand of bad cables/connections or a starter whose windings have cooked.

Then the contacts weld together and you can't get the starter to stop without rapping the relay.

A 90's style PMGR takes most of the load off the relay because the solenoid on the starter is switching the current.

You can make it look stock(ish) by using the 'Y' shaped starter cable from the same '95 truck that takes the geared starter.

A word to the wise... eliminate the troublesome spade connector on the solenoid and fit a ring terminal to the trigger wire.

Those connectors would get corroded because they take so much water when driven in the rain. (this may not be as critical in climates that don't use salt in winter)

[Rembrant]

Is the DSII starter retard function still working with your module?

Where is your static timing set?

That's what I was going to ask! Pretty sure he was running quite a bit of advance (16btdc?) because I was doing the same with my 5.0 (around 17btdc).

When I tried that new "Motorcraft" DSII module (without the retard function) my 302 became very hard to start when hot...like the starter would drag and barely move the engine..

Could pull the static back to the factory 8btdc or so and see if it's better.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Is the DSII starter retard function still working with your module?

Where is your static timing set?

That's what I was going to ask! Pretty sure he was running quite a bit of advance (16btdc?) because I was doing the same with my 5.0 (around 17btdc).

When I tried that new "Motorcraft" DSII module (without the retard function) my 302 became very hard to start when hot...like the starter would drag and barely move the engine..

Could pull the static back to the factory 8btdc or so and see if it's better.

When I re-read Rick's post and he says "and then it kicked back" it makes me think the timing is too far advanced.

Maybe his starter is getting weak, but it sure sounds like the timing isn't being retarded.

Which ignition module did you end up using Cory?

[grumpin]

When I re-read Rick's post and he says "and then it kicked back" it makes me think the timing is too far advanced.

Maybe his starter is getting weak, but it sure sounds like the timing isn't being retarded.

Which ignition module did you end up using Cory?

I here you guys on the timing, but I wouldn’t think tapping on the starter and relay would help.