Gas tank interference woes

[Gary Lewis]

Let me further confuse the issue, Darth is a 1986 F350 crew cab DRW model built in Aug 1986 in Oakville Ontario, Canada. My VSS for the speed control was in the cable just above the floor to firewall seam. Do not assume that changes like that were carved in stone. On the whole issue, look at a threaded speedometer cable attachment at your transfer case (go back into the 70s maybe) and a right angle 1:1 adapter so the cable can be routed up and over the transfer case.

Based on Gary's post above this one, those have the threaded connectors. I have seen some simple straight dual female end essentially tubes that a short piece of cable or even square key stock could be used to short couple a sensor or angle drive to another similar device.

Don't limit your search to just Ford, GM, Chrysler, independents and aftermarket can provide nice solutions.

Bill - You are right. This is one of those things where I'd bet Ford consolidated the remaining VSS and speedo cables from the earlier version at certain plants and installed them until they run out.

[Pete Whitstone]

Bill - You are right. This is one of those things where I'd bet Ford consolidated the remaining VSS and speedo cables from the earlier version at certain plants and installed them until they run out.

I'm very used to this in my other automotive projects. They are Italian so it's even more confusing because Italian car companies of the 70's-80's did things a lot different than in America.

Italians kind of split the job of building a car up. A design house/chassis manufacturer (called a Carrozzeria in Italian) would design the car body and chassis. The two big Carrozzeria of the time were Bertone and Pinninfarina. Bertone worked a lot with Lamborghini, while Pinninfarina worked mostly with Ferrari and Lancia, but there was some cross-over in both directions. Then the auto manufacturers (Fiat, Ferrari, Lamborghini, DeTomaso, etc.) had the chassis/body shipped to their factories and the drivetrain and all the running components were installed.

Since the production volume was often low, the Carrozzeria used parts until they ran out. So while a particular option was supposed to end or start on a model year boundary, it really did not work that way. Cars built in certain years had uncertain components or options, because they ran out of something, or had surplus of something.

I'm sure all manufacturers do it, but with Ford's manufacturing volume (and probably tighter inventory methods), I would imagine the "spillover" was not as prevalent.

 

[Pete Whitstone]

Just send me an email with your address and I'll get it out on Monday. It came off Big Blue so I know it was working.

As for part numbers vs ID/engineering #'s, just because people call the number on the part a part number doesn't make it so. If that were the case we could call black "white" and vice versa.

The function to send an email does not appear to be working for me. I fill everything out, verify I'm not a robot, and click the "send" button but nothing happens. I tried it several times and I don't think it ever did anything. The button is not grayed out or anything, just unresponsive. My email is the same as my user id, just with a period between first and last name, and the rest of it is @att.net. Shoot me an email and I'll send my snail mail address.

I agree with what you are saying about the part numbers, it's just that I haven't seen where the vendors sell parts based on the part number very much. Seems like everyone uses the engineering number to describe the part, thus making it the de facto part number. But like I said, I find the whole thing confusing and maybe the part numbers and engineering numbers are similar or the same or subsets of one another. Although that would make me wonder why there is a master cross-reference. I haven't been playing with 80's Fords long enough to know what's what.

Thanks!

[Gary Lewis]

Just send me an email with your address and I'll get it out on Monday. It came off Big Blue so I know it was working.

As for part numbers vs ID/engineering #'s, just because people call the number on the part a part number doesn't make it so. If that were the case we could call black "white" and vice versa.

The function to send an email does not appear to be working for me. I fill everything out, verify I'm not a robot, and click the "send" button but nothing happens. I tried it several times and I don't think it ever did anything. The button is not grayed out or anything, just unresponsive. My email is the same as my user id, just with a period between first and last name, and the rest of it is @att.net. Shoot me an email and I'll send my snail mail address.

I agree with what you are saying about the part numbers, it's just that I haven't seen where the vendors sell parts based on the part number very much. Seems like everyone uses the engineering number to describe the part, thus making it the de facto part number. But like I said, I find the whole thing confusing and maybe the part numbers and engineering numbers are similar or the same or subsets of one another. Although that would make me wonder why there is a master cross-reference. I haven't been playing with 80's Fords long enough to know what's what.

Thanks!

I got all of your emails. Forgot to say the function works but doesn’t look like it does.

As for the part numbers, the uneducated sell based on the ID number, but Ford dealers and those who know what they are talking about usually use the part number or both. I was educated by one of the best, Bill/Numberdummy, and choose to use the numbers correctly.

While it may look like I’m just being difficult, the documentation on this site is from Ford’s MPC and it uses part numbers. So we need to use them or people cannot look the part up.

[85lebaront2]

Bill - You are right. This is one of those things where I'd bet Ford consolidated the remaining VSS and speedo cables from the earlier version at certain plants and installed them until they run out.

I'm very used to this in my other automotive projects. They are Italian so it's even more confusing because Italian car companies of the 70's-80's did things a lot different than in America.

Italians kind of split the job of building a car up. A design house/chassis manufacturer (called a Carrozzeria in Italian) would design the car body and chassis. The two big Carrozzeria of the time were Bertone and Pinninfarina. Bertone worked a lot with Lamborghini, while Pinninfarina worked mostly with Ferrari and Lancia, but there was some cross-over in both directions. Then the auto manufacturers (Fiat, Ferrari, Lamborghini, DeTomaso, etc.) had the chassis/body shipped to their factories and the drivetrain and all the running components were installed.

Since the production volume was often low, the Carrozzeria used parts until they ran out. So while a particular option was supposed to end or start on a model year boundary, it really did not work that way. Cars built in certain years had uncertain components or options, because they ran out of something, or had surplus of something.

I'm sure all manufacturers do it, but with Ford's manufacturing volume (and probably tighter inventory methods), I would imagine the "spillover" was not as prevalent.

 

Italian cars, Stellantis now owns most of them. I never dealt with too many of those, other than a few Fiats and one Alfa-Romeo Giulia TI my sister had (dad bought it for her) Strange beast, was a domestic Italian model probably brought back by some one in the military. A 1964, had a Solex 2 barrel and Magneti Marelli electrics (made me appreciate Lucas). I know we could not find points for it and when the dynamo quit I think dad put a spare Chrysler alternator on, or we may still have had the 25 amp Autolite from my 1964 Falcon around.

Strangest parts, (a) a lot of people thought it was one of the newer Renaults with the square body styles and (b) due to that an Opel Cadette Rallye tried to race me one night, he figured he had me hearing that twin cam buzz up in 4th, then I went into 5th with the column shift and walked away from him.

The others I had experience with a Ferrari Dino Sideways V8 that had bent valves in both heads (loads of fun leaning over to get the front head off and on). A Cireon SM I had to reassemble the engine on and a later Ferrari Testarosa opposed 12 that had jumped time on one bank and bent several valves. That was an R&R on the head and it was sent to a shop in San Diego that specialized in Ferraris. The shop owner was extremely helpful on tips to get the head off.

[Pete Whitstone]

I got all of your emails. Forgot to say the function works but doesn’t look like it does.

As for the part numbers, the uneducated sell based on the ID number, but Ford dealers and those who know what they are talking about usually use the part number or both. I was educated by one of the best, Bill/Numberdummy, and choose to use the numbers correctly.

While it may look like I’m just being difficult, the documentation on this site is from Ford’s MPC and it uses part numbers. So we need to use them or people cannot look the part up.

Glad you got the emails. I was in doubt because on one of them I clicked the "send me a copy" option, and didn't get anything.

I don't think you're being difficult on the part numbers, I think you're trying to teach me something, and I appreciate it, so thank you. I didn't know the numbers in the documentation were actual part numbers, I thought they were the engineering numbers.

 

[Pete Whitstone]

Italian cars, Stellantis now owns most of them. I never dealt with too many of those, other than a few Fiats and one Alfa-Romeo Giulia TI my sister had (dad bought it for her) Strange beast, was a domestic Italian model probably brought back by some one in the military. A 1964, had a Solex 2 barrel and Magneti Marelli electrics (made me appreciate Lucas). I know we could not find points for it and when the dynamo quit I think dad put a spare Chrysler alternator on, or we may still have had the 25 amp Autolite from my 1964 Falcon around.

Strangest parts, (a) a lot of people thought it was one of the newer Renaults with the square body styles and (b) due to that an Opel Cadette Rallye tried to race me one night, he figured he had me hearing that twin cam buzz up in 4th, then I went into 5th with the column shift and walked away from him.

The others I had experience with a Ferrari Dino Sideways V8 that had bent valves in both heads (loads of fun leaning over to get the front head off and on). A Cireon SM I had to reassemble the engine on and a later Ferrari Testarosa opposed 12 that had jumped time on one bank and bent several valves. That was an R&R on the head and it was sent to a shop in San Diego that specialized in Ferraris. The shop owner was extremely helpful on tips to get the head off.

I haven't messed with any of the high-end stuff. I like to modify cars too much, and modding a Lambo or a Ferrari tends to devalue it. I just own and work on Fiat and (post-merger) Lancia stuff. Their mid-engine cars are as close as you can get to a street-legal go-kart and are fun as heck to drive.

[Pete Whitstone]

Switching to the center-of-the-cable VSS seems like the path forward from here, provided the speedo cable without the VSS can go in the transmission without too much bending around the gas tank.

But there's a lot of confusion there too, in my mind. On the documentation on this site, there is this info:

"The 1980 - 85 speed sensor is part number D4AZ 9E731-B, as shown below, and is Motorcraft DY-145 and is marked D4AF 9E731. Then in 1986 they changed to the sensor that went in the tranny or t-case, which is part number E3AZ 9E731-A and it is Motorcraft DY-382. Then in April of 1989 they introduced a new sensor with part number E9TZ 9E731-A, which replaced the E3 part but still uses the same cable."

So when I add that up with the illustrations, it looks like the 80-85 sensor is by the brake booster in the middle of the speedo cable, and I need a Motorcraft DY-145. My searching so far has not turned up any available parts by that description. Presumably the VSS I have is the 1986-89 one, as it clearly goes in the Trans or TC. The part given for that is the -A suffix.

However, I see this on eBay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/184597047388?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=184597047388&targetid=1263433204694&device=c&mktype=&googleloc=9026833&poi=&campaignid=14859008593&mkgroupid=130497710760&rlsatarget=pla-1263433204694&abcId=9300678&merchantid=108712546&gclid=Cj0KCQiAqvaNBhDLARIsAH1Pq52OE-iWSzVRH_tgsLLwhQ3QFNIFSmH9OnzrjoXQfs0PdxztCoYQ5SwaAhlnEALw_wcB

This is described as Motorcraft DY-144, and has the part number D4AZ-9E731-A. So according to what is above, this should be the 86-89 part. But it is clearly a middle-of-the-cable part, as it has screw threads on both sides.

I'm pretty sure it's the part I need if I go the mid-cable route. Does anyone know any different?

So going down this mid-speed-cable route, I know I need the upper and lower speedo cables. I started digging through what I had, and earlier on before I learned about the long 1-piece cable with the VSS in the TC/Trans, I had ordered some speedo cables. Here are the Pioneer part numbers I have.

And here is what the ends look like (not sure which one is which Pioneer part number).

So of the 4 ends, I know the gold colored end with the white plastic thing goes on the speedo. I am assuming the other end of it, with the smaller threaded connection, will go on the VSS. But the other cable has me wondering. I assume both sides of the VSS will have the same thread size/pitch. So that leaves the big threaded end to go to the transfer case.

But what needs to plug into the TC needs to be shaped like this.

So either I'm missing a part, or I've got the wrong lower cable, I'm not sure which. Any advice? Thanks!

[FuzzFace2]

Let me further confuse the issue, Darth is a 1986 F350 crew cab DRW model built in Aug 1986 in Oakville Ontario, Canada. My VSS for the speed control was in the cable just above the floor to firewall seam. Do not assume that changes like that were carved in stone. On the whole issue, look at a threaded speedometer cable attachment at your transfer case (go back into the 70s maybe) and a right angle 1:1 adapter so the cable can be routed up and over the transfer case.

Based on Gary's post above this one, those have the threaded connectors. I have seen some simple straight dual female end essentially tubes that a short piece of cable or even square key stock could be used to short couple a sensor or angle drive to another similar device.

Don't limit your search to just Ford, GM, Chrysler, independents and aftermarket can provide nice solutions.

I was going to say you might be able to find a 90* unit to fit the TC and the cable would then screw into it.

You can check with drive line venders that sell R&P gear sets and bearings.

I cant think of the people I bought my gears and install kit for my K10 blazer when I did a gear swap and the drag car gear, install kit and Detroit locker from

Think it was https://www.drivetrainspecialists.com/

When I did the Blazer I did not want to mess with the TC / cable gears so they sent an adapter that fixed it, little box that went in the trans and the cable screwed into it.

Dave ----

[Gary Lewis]

So going down this mid-speed-cable route, I know I need the upper and lower speedo cables. I started digging through what I had, and earlier on before I learned about the long 1-piece cable with the VSS in the TC/Trans, I had ordered some speedo cables. Here are the Pioneer part numbers I have.

And here is what the ends look like (not sure which one is which Pioneer part number).

So of the 4 ends, I know the gold colored end with the white plastic thing goes on the speedo. I am assuming the other end of it, with the smaller threaded connection, will go on the VSS. But the other cable has me wondering. I assume both sides of the VSS will have the same thread size/pitch. So that leaves the big threaded end to go to the transfer case.

But what needs to plug into the TC needs to be shaped like this.

So either I'm missing a part, or I've got the wrong lower cable, I'm not sure which. Any advice? Thanks!

I’m out and can’t look up the numbers now, but will when I get home. However I think you have the cable from the VSS to the speed. But the one to the tranny doesn’t look right. As you said, it needs to be like the other VSS.