It's all in the timing!

[grumpin]

Last night in bed reflecting back on the day past I got to thinking about the dist. spring swap and not remembering if I put the flat washer & E clip back on the breaker plate?

So this morning I fired up the shop heater, was 32* in the garage

and checked the dish I had the parts in and sure enough the washer & clip were in it.

So that was the first order to get that put back together as I needed the truck to take the trash to the dump.

I also seen a little coolant on the floor and took up on the lower hose clamp as that looked like were it was coming from. I hope its not the radiator as it is only 2 years old.

I also had a little gas leak when I would fill the rear tank from the fill hose.

It was always hard to see just were when it happened as you would need to lay on the ground and that was not going to happen at the station.

Well I got under there with a good light and took up a little in the 2 clamps that hold the 2 hoses to the pipe used to make the fill hose reach the fill door & tank.

When looking I seen a little hole and remembered there was a screw in the hose that I removed when making this all fit. I was lucky that it was at the pipe and the first clamp was on the wrong side of the hole so I added a 2nd clamp and hope that fixes the leak when filling. Will see at next fill up and that is not far away.

On the trash run I dont think I am getting any pinging. The noise I hear I think is exh. noise at the EFI Y pipe and front pipe. Could also be from the welded muffler as it gives a strange sound over a factory muffler.

I returned the 2nd vacuum advance can as it did not fit and did not try for another so got my money back.

Once I got the centrifugal advance set I will give the factory can a try as it does advance & adjusts I just did not know if it would be in the right range for my use.

Dave ----

I found this on RA’s website, instructions for the vacuum advance.

I did not realize you could come back to the stop. I was always careful, leery if you will, to not damage it.

When I get the timing where I like it and start with the vacuum advance, I’m going to start at the mechanical stop.

https://www.rockauto.com/genImages/154/GF3767.pdf

[Gary Lewis]

Last night in bed reflecting back on the day past I got to thinking about the dist. spring swap and not remembering if I put the flat washer & E clip back on the breaker plate?

So this morning I fired up the shop heater, was 32* in the garage

and checked the dish I had the parts in and sure enough the washer & clip were in it.

So that was the first order to get that put back together as I needed the truck to take the trash to the dump.

I also seen a little coolant on the floor and took up on the lower hose clamp as that looked like were it was coming from. I hope its not the radiator as it is only 2 years old.

I also had a little gas leak when I would fill the rear tank from the fill hose.

It was always hard to see just were when it happened as you would need to lay on the ground and that was not going to happen at the station.

Well I got under there with a good light and took up a little in the 2 clamps that hold the 2 hoses to the pipe used to make the fill hose reach the fill door & tank.

When looking I seen a little hole and remembered there was a screw in the hose that I removed when making this all fit. I was lucky that it was at the pipe and the first clamp was on the wrong side of the hole so I added a 2nd clamp and hope that fixes the leak when filling. Will see at next fill up and that is not far away.

On the trash run I dont think I am getting any pinging. The noise I hear I think is exh. noise at the EFI Y pipe and front pipe. Could also be from the welded muffler as it gives a strange sound over a factory muffler.

I returned the 2nd vacuum advance can as it did not fit and did not try for another so got my money back.

Once I got the centrifugal advance set I will give the factory can a try as it does advance & adjusts I just did not know if it would be in the right range for my use.

Dave ----

Sorry, I missed the previous post.

Glad you are getting the pinging sorted. Maybe you are "there"?

And, glad you are finding that taking up the clamps, or adding one, seems to solve minor problems.

As for the dizzy it is from a 1980 truck, and these are the possibilities:

• CALIBRATION PARTS LIST NO. 1

  (Calibration No, 0-51F-R0) - 6 Cyl. 300 C.I.D. (4.9L)

  1980 F250 - - 2/W/D-M/T exc. Calif.

  1980 F-U150/250 - - 4/W/D

• CALIBRATION PARTS LIST NO. 5

  (Calibration No. 0-51M-R0) - 6 Cyl. 300 C.I.D. (4.9L)

  1980 E250 - - M/T

• CALIBRATION PARTS LIST NO. 49

  (Calibration No. 0-51F-R10) - 6 Cyl. 300 C.I.D. (4.9L)

  1980 F250 - - 2/W/D-M/T exc. Calif.

  1980 F-U150/250 - - 4/W/D

And here's the full #1 parts list:

 

[FuzzFace2]

Last night in bed reflecting back on the day past I got to thinking about the dist. spring swap and not remembering if I put the flat washer & E clip back on the breaker plate?

So this morning I fired up the shop heater, was 32* in the garage

and checked the dish I had the parts in and sure enough the washer & clip were in it.

So that was the first order to get that put back together as I needed the truck to take the trash to the dump.

I also seen a little coolant on the floor and took up on the lower hose clamp as that looked like were it was coming from. I hope its not the radiator as it is only 2 years old.

I also had a little gas leak when I would fill the rear tank from the fill hose.

It was always hard to see just were when it happened as you would need to lay on the ground and that was not going to happen at the station.

Well I got under there with a good light and took up a little in the 2 clamps that hold the 2 hoses to the pipe used to make the fill hose reach the fill door & tank.

When looking I seen a little hole and remembered there was a screw in the hose that I removed when making this all fit. I was lucky that it was at the pipe and the first clamp was on the wrong side of the hole so I added a 2nd clamp and hope that fixes the leak when filling. Will see at next fill up and that is not far away.

On the trash run I dont think I am getting any pinging. The noise I hear I think is exh. noise at the EFI Y pipe and front pipe. Could also be from the welded muffler as it gives a strange sound over a factory muffler.

I returned the 2nd vacuum advance can as it did not fit and did not try for another so got my money back.

Once I got the centrifugal advance set I will give the factory can a try as it does advance & adjusts I just did not know if it would be in the right range for my use.

Dave ----

I was given some links & info on the dist. numbers, mainly the lower number.

9J 27

9 = year

J = month think I seen they don’t use "I" so this would be the 9th month

27 = day

Sept 27 1979

This could be from the motor that was in my truck as the truck was made 11/80 and if I under stand motors could be built a year before the body.

Being the motor had gray paint I think it is a later year, the exh. manifold would not take the trucks head pipe so the dist was swapped over.

Just my guess

Dave ----

[FuzzFace2]

I was given some links & info on the dist. numbers, mainly the lower number.

9J 27

9 = year

J = month think I seen they don’t use "I" so this would be the 9th month

27 = day

Sept 27 1979

This could be from the motor that was in my truck as the truck was made 11/80 and if I under stand motors could be built a year before the body.

Being the motor had gray paint I think it is a later year, the exh. manifold would not take the trucks head pipe so the dist was swapped over.

Just my guess

Dave ----

Ran to HF a few towns away, 105 miles round trip, truck run great and no pining so was happy with that.

First real driving since the spring swap that was more than around the block.

A little later, almost dark, my son helped do the timing curve mapping after the MSD blue spring to replace the weak Mr. Gasket spring.

Idle 850 14* BTDC

1000 14*

1500 14*

2000 14*

2500 16*

3000 23*

3500 29*

4000 30*

I then hooked up the factory vacuum can and IIRC it is turned CW to the end.

I dont remember where it starts to pull at and was to dark to hook up the vacuum gauge and the new hand vacuum pump was not working right to test.

Idle 850 14* BTDC

1000 15*

1500 15*

2000 24*

2500 44*

3000 51*

3500 55*

4000 58*

I am going to take the truck to work, vacuum not hooked up, and before the trip home I will hook up the vacuum and see how it runs. If it pings I can pull over and remove the hose and plug, trip in will be to dark for this if needed.

I also like where the AF meter has been reading, between mid 14's and high 15's most of the time.

Dave ----

[Gary Lewis]

Ran to HF a few towns away, 105 miles round trip, truck run great and no pining so was happy with that.

First real driving since the spring swap that was more than around the block.

A little later, almost dark, my son helped do the timing curve mapping after the MSD blue spring to replace the weak Mr. Gasket spring.

Idle 850 14* BTDC

1000 14*

1500 14*

2000 14*

2500 16*

3000 23*

3500 29*

4000 30*

I then hooked up the factory vacuum can and IIRC it is turned CW to the end.

I dont remember where it starts to pull at and was to dark to hook up the vacuum gauge and the new hand vacuum pump was not working right to test.

Idle 850 14* BTDC

1000 15*

1500 15*

2000 24*

2500 44*

3000 51*

3500 55*

4000 58*

I am going to take the truck to work, vacuum not hooked up, and before the trip home I will hook up the vacuum and see how it runs. If it pings I can pull over and remove the hose and plug, trip in will be to dark for this if needed.

I also like where the AF meter has been reading, between mid 14's and high 15's most of the time.

Dave ----

Man, that made a huge difference in the advance. You shouldn't have pinging even with the vacuum advance connected.

But on the way to work w/o the vacuum advance see if you think the truck has as much power as it previously had. I think you may have given some away with the slow centrifugal advance. You may want to put that heavy MSD spring in if it is lighter than the factory heavy spring.

And I'll bet on the way home with the vacuum connected the part-throttle response is better. However, since the vacuum, and there for the advance, goes away with much throttle I fear you are still leaving power on the table. Maybe boost the initial to 16 degrees if it starts ok?

[FuzzFace2]

Man, that made a huge difference in the advance. You shouldn't have pinging even with the vacuum advance connected.

But on the way to work w/o the vacuum advance see if you think the truck has as much power as it previously had. I think you may have given some away with the slow centrifugal advance. You may want to put that heavy MSD spring in if it is lighter than the factory heavy spring.

And I'll bet on the way home with the vacuum connected the part-throttle response is better. However, since the vacuum, and there for the advance, goes away with much throttle I fear you are still leaving power on the table. Maybe boost the initial to 16 degrees if it starts ok?

That did make a big difference, I was shocked when I saw the readings.

I think the power is pretty good the way it is.

The way it was when pinging you had to get out of the throttle to stop the pinging were now you don't, you can give more throttle climbing hills now.

I do think I left some on the table but now I can sneak up on it were before the pinging was in my face.

More adjusting and testing and I will get it dialed in.

Thanks

Dave ----

[Gary Lewis]

That did make a big difference, I was shocked when I saw the readings.

I think the power is pretty good the way it is.

The way it was when pinging you had to get out of the throttle to stop the pinging were now you don't, you can give more throttle climbing hills now.

I do think I left some on the table but now I can sneak up on it were before the pinging was in my face.

More adjusting and testing and I will get it dialed in.

Thanks

Dave ----

That's the right approach - sneak up on it. And since earlier it seemed to be starting ok at 16 BTDC I think I'd dial in up to that pretty quickly. You want to get your initial + centrifugal timing nailed down before working on the vacuum advance.

But you should be at work right now, having driven the truck to work with the initial at 14 BTDC and no vacuum. Then you'll connect vacuum to the can for the drive home, so I'm looking for a report when you get home.

I believe what you will find on the vacuum is that will give you a whole bunch of advance. That's because it is set up for EGR but you don't have EGR enabled on the engine, right? The addition of exhaust gas to the air/fuel mix slows the combustion significantly so they had to dial in a whole bunch of advance to compensate. However, the exhaust gas is only added when the engine vacuum is high, so they added the advance through the vacuum advance unit, so those vacuum units can add a whole bunch of advance.

Looking at your previous notes your unit appears to give 35 degrees of advance with the screw all the way CW. I believe that may be too much, but maybe not with the really slow centrifugal advance. Still, I'd want to get the initial set to 16 before I did much tuning on the vacuum.

Good luck!

[FuzzFace2]

That's the right approach - sneak up on it. And since earlier it seemed to be starting ok at 16 BTDC I think I'd dial in up to that pretty quickly. You want to get your initial + centrifugal timing nailed down before working on the vacuum advance.

But you should be at work right now, having driven the truck to work with the initial at 14 BTDC and no vacuum. Then you'll connect vacuum to the can for the drive home, so I'm looking for a report when you get home.

I believe what you will find on the vacuum is that will give you a whole bunch of advance. That's because it is set up for EGR but you don't have EGR enabled on the engine, right? The addition of exhaust gas to the air/fuel mix slows the combustion significantly so they had to dial in a whole bunch of advance to compensate. However, the exhaust gas is only added when the engine vacuum is high, so they added the advance through the vacuum advance unit, so those vacuum units can add a whole bunch of advance.

Looking at your previous notes your unit appears to give 35 degrees of advance with the screw all the way CW. I believe that may be too much, but maybe not with the really slow centrifugal advance. Still, I'd want to get the initial set to 16 before I did much tuning on the vacuum.

Good luck!

Report:

Drive to work: timing set to 14* BTDC, no vacuum advance, it ran like it did on the 105 mile trip, I thought pretty good.

Drive home from work: (vacuum was hooked up only as a test) Started it up to warm up a little as it was 48*f. While warming up I hooked up the vacuum to the advance can. Start up / hook vacuum up / close hood and drive. Even cold it was pinging.

Anything below 1500 RPM it pinged and forget around 1000 RPM!

It seam to ping at light throttle but stop at WOT.

It felt like it had more get up & go with vacuum hooked up.

I only drove about 5 miles and I pulled over to pull the hose off and plug it for the rest of the drive.

Now when I was working I was looking over my notes and I figured with the can turned all the way CW the vacuum would kick in sooner to make up for the late centrifugal. It did not like vacuum hooked up.

I would have adjusted it just to see what would happen but did not have the tool with me and it was just a test.

So I may do as you said and replace the heavy factory spring with the weaker MSD heavy spring and see if I can get the centrifugal to kick in a little earlier.

The only thing that you pointed out, or was it Bill?, before was the factory spring has a longer loop at 1 end where the MSD dose not so dont know what that may do to the readings?

You are also right on not having a working EGR

More testing & tuning to come!

Dave ----

[Gary Lewis]

Report:

Drive to work: timing set to 14* BTDC, no vacuum advance, it ran like it did on the 105 mile trip, I thought pretty good.

Drive home from work: (vacuum was hooked up only as a test) Started it up to warm up a little as it was 48*f. While warming up I hooked up the vacuum to the advance can. Start up / hook vacuum up / close hood and drive. Even cold it was pinging.

Anything below 1500 RPM it pinged and forget around 1000 RPM!

It seam to ping at light throttle but stop at WOT.

It felt like it had more get up & go with vacuum hooked up.

I only drove about 5 miles and I pulled over to pull the hose off and plug it for the rest of the drive.

Now when I was working I was looking over my notes and I figured with the can turned all the way CW the vacuum would kick in sooner to make up for the late centrifugal. It did not like vacuum hooked up.

I would have adjusted it just to see what would happen but did not have the tool with me and it was just a test.

So I may do as you said and replace the heavy factory spring with the weaker MSD heavy spring and see if I can get the centrifugal to kick in a little earlier.

The only thing that you pointed out, or was it Bill?, before was the factory spring has a longer loop at 1 end where the MSD dose not so dont know what that may do to the readings?

You are also right on not having a working EGR

More testing & tuning to come!

Dave ----

Dave - I wouldn't bother to pull the dizzy and change out the spring until I'd tried turning the vacuum advance full CCW. Maybe that will back enough out to make it work.

Then, if that doesn't work I'd go for the big spring. It probably won't work, but it is a whole lot easier than pulling the dizzy, and you really should start with the least vacuum advance and add some until it pings and then back off instead of starting with all you can get.

As for the loop in the heavy factory spring, it lets you get a little advance early on and then slows it down when you hit the end of the loop. But I really don't think you want to start the advance early, so the MSD spring might do the trick.

 

[FuzzFace2]

Dave - I wouldn't bother to pull the dizzy and change out the spring until I'd tried turning the vacuum advance full CCW. Maybe that will back enough out to make it work.

Then, if that doesn't work I'd go for the big spring. It probably won't work, but it is a whole lot easier than pulling the dizzy, and you really should start with the least vacuum advance and add some until it pings and then back off instead of starting with all you can get.

As for the loop in the heavy factory spring, it lets you get a little advance early on and then slows it down when you hit the end of the loop. But I really don't think you want to start the advance early, so the MSD spring might do the trick.

Well it is easy enough to adjust the can and put the hose on & off so I may give that a try.

Pulling the dist. and swapping the springs is not bad once you have done it.

I think I could have it done in and hour, R&R and running.

Think I will do the adjusting and / or spring swap later in the week if I have time.

Tomorrow the high here is 38*f and if I have to spend time out in it for work like today, cement you have to watch the gauges outside, I will not want to work on the truck.

Besides I put the Javelin back in my garage so I would have to move it out, truck in, fire up the heater, etc. after a long day so it can wait.

Dave ----