It's all in the timing!

[FuzzFace2]

I had the same result with the Mr Gasket springs, which I shouldn’t have tried because as you said, they’re light springs.

Also had the same results trying to adjust the vacuum can. I have a can on my old distributor I’m going to use. I know I can adjust it with a 3/32 Allen wrench. I got the can in my old distributor at NAPA BTW.

Scotty the mad porter suggested that I run a cooler thermostat, I have a 195° in there now, will go with a 180°. He stated that he’s seen problems with engines with big iron heads. Hadn’t thought of that.

I won’t be doing this till we get warmer and dryer weather. I’m working outside.

Now you tell me after I did the spring swap

I dont remember who told me of that kit number and why they are so light?

My Factory can uses a 1/8 Allen wrench and I put it back on just so I had something and was thinking if the spring worked out I could see about adjusting the vacuum side and if it worked great.

I do have one on order and should be here later today.

I dont really want to go colder on the stat because I am getting a milkshake in the dip stick tube and under the oil fill cap and if I go colder it might get worst but I dont know.

I am lucky that I have my garage with all my tools, Javelin is in the house garage now truck in my garage.

Friday I have my monthly eye needle and after I rest some I may go back out and see what I can come up with.

Dave -Sorry for the flop. And sorry for the late and short reply - we have company.

First, I don’t let Mr Gasket products in my shop, much less on my truck. I didn’t tell you that when you ordered the springs as I hoped you wouldn’t have the same experience. Sorry.

But you obviously need to find a heavier spring. Does Crane have a kit? Their stuff has always been good.

And you can test springs by hooking two together and seeing which stretches first.

I’ll try to get back on this topic tomorrow.

What you are not on here 24 / 7

Another one that did not tell me not to use Mr. Gasket kit

I did not check if Crane had a kit as I figured the Mr G kit would have worked, oh well.

When I checked the on line speed shops they kept showing springs for GM dist. not even Ford v8 dist.?

I mat have something I can use, stay tuned.

Dave, you might want to use the R18 slot, the R is for right hand rotation and 13 or 18 are the number of distributor degrees, but it might be crank degrees advance it will give you. You probably want 34° degrees total mechanical advance on a 300 due to the long stroke. So if it is crank degrees, 34° - 18° = 16° BTDC static timing.

Keep in mind, the 300 as built was a torque motor, not high rpm and by 1986 it was pretty well strangled by the emission system. Good example, my second Ford truck was a 1977 F150, 300 six and C4. PS and brakes. Fellow I worked with had a 1977 F100, essentially the same as mine. Underhood, way different, mine had PCV and Evaporative emissions only, his had the whole package, Cat, Air pump, EGR in addition to what mine had.

On springs, do you or anyone you know have a fish scale? You need a tension scale to test the springs for load. Keep in mind what I said in my earlier post about the heavy spring having a long hook on one end, this is what is used to control the amount of initial mechanical advance.

On the R13 / R18 I can put the old spring back in and change the slot and see what it dose.

I dont want to change to a different spring and the slot at the same time. You know 1 change at a time.

Its just a pain as the dist. needs to be pulled, taken apart for changes, put back together, installed and tested.

I know its not a high RPM motor as I shift at or just below 2000 RPM and most of the time working range is between 1000 & 1800 RPM that is low to a v8 working range LOL

I dont have or know anyone that has a fish scale. Wonder if HF would have something like that as I pass one on the way home from work. Also have a Northern Tool across the street from HF I can check with.

I did see the heavy spring was loose and know the weak spring works to the point of tanking the slack out of the heavy spring then the heavy spring kicks in, is that right?

Right now it looks like the weak spring is letting it advance just off idle RPM (1000 RPM) and by 1500 RPM all advance was in. I have been testing advance up to 3000 RPM but just to make sure I ran it up to 3500 RPM with no change in timing from the 1500 RPM reading.

Thanks guys for all the help.

Dave ----

[FuzzFace2]

I had the same result with the Mr Gasket springs, which I shouldn’t have tried because as you said, they’re light springs.

Also had the same results trying to adjust the vacuum can. I have a can on my old distributor I’m going to use. I know I can adjust it with a 3/32 Allen wrench. I got the can in my old distributor at NAPA BTW.

Scotty the mad porter suggested that I run a cooler thermostat, I have a 195° in there now, will go with a 180°. He stated that he’s seen problems with engines with big iron heads. Hadn’t thought of that.

I won’t be doing this till we get warmer and dryer weather. I’m working outside.

Ok this is what I have to work with from my MSD dist.

From the bottom up:

Rusty (1) spring is the old factory spring.

Silver (1) Mr Gasket kit spring you can see it is a thinner wire now side by side.

Blue (2) MSD springs look to be the same wire size as factory with fewer loops but the hooks look to be in the same areas as the other 2 springs. It also feels harder to pull it apart than the factory spring. This may be the one to try?

Silver (2) MSD springs as seen are heavy wire and I cant pull it apart. I dont know if this is the same as the factory heavy spring or not? The loops on them are just like the other springs shown, no big loop as Bill pointed out with the factory spring but looks to be a little longer loop to loop?

It would be nice if I had a scale like Bill posted about and will see if I can get something before I do this party again.

So I think I may try one of the blue springs and see what that gets me as I got to start somewhere and if that dose not cut it I will put the stock spring back in as pinging was not too bad with timing set at 10* BTDC.

What you guys think?

Thanks

Dave ----

ps: Just went back over the above posts and see Gary posted "And you can test springs by hooking two together and seeing which stretches first."

I wil give that a try now with the above springs.

It pays to read posts a few times:nabble_smiley_blush:

Thanks

[grumpin]

I had the same result with the Mr Gasket springs, which I shouldn’t have tried because as you said, they’re light springs.

Also had the same results trying to adjust the vacuum can. I have a can on my old distributor I’m going to use. I know I can adjust it with a 3/32 Allen wrench. I got the can in my old distributor at NAPA BTW.

Scotty the mad porter suggested that I run a cooler thermostat, I have a 195° in there now, will go with a 180°. He stated that he’s seen problems with engines with big iron heads. Hadn’t thought of that.

I won’t be doing this till we get warmer and dryer weather. I’m working outside.

Now you tell me after I did the spring swap

I dont remember who told me of that kit number and why they are so light?

My Factory can uses a 1/8 Allen wrench and I put it back on just so I had something and was thinking if the spring worked out I could see about adjusting the vacuum side and if it worked great.

I do have one on order and should be here later today.

I dont really want to go colder on the stat because I am getting a milkshake in the dip stick tube and under the oil fill cap and if I go colder it might get worst but I dont know.

I am lucky that I have my garage with all my tools, Javelin is in the house garage now truck in my garage.

Friday I have my monthly eye needle and after I rest some I may go back out and see what I can come up with.

Dave -Sorry for the flop. And sorry for the late and short reply - we have company.

First, I don’t let Mr Gasket products in my shop, much less on my truck. I didn’t tell you that when you ordered the springs as I hoped you wouldn’t have the same experience. Sorry.

But you obviously need to find a heavier spring. Does Crane have a kit? Their stuff has always been good.

And you can test springs by hooking two together and seeing which stretches first.

I’ll try to get back on this topic tomorrow.

What you are not on here 24 / 7

Another one that did not tell me not to use Mr. Gasket kit

I did not check if Crane had a kit as I figured the Mr G kit would have worked, oh well.

When I checked the on line speed shops they kept showing springs for GM dist. not even Ford v8 dist.?

I mat have something I can use, stay tuned.

Dave, you might want to use the R18 slot, the R is for right hand rotation and 13 or 18 are the number of distributor degrees, but it might be crank degrees advance it will give you. You probably want 34° degrees total mechanical advance on a 300 due to the long stroke. So if it is crank degrees, 34° - 18° = 16° BTDC static timing.

Keep in mind, the 300 as built was a torque motor, not high rpm and by 1986 it was pretty well strangled by the emission system. Good example, my second Ford truck was a 1977 F150, 300 six and C4. PS and brakes. Fellow I worked with had a 1977 F100, essentially the same as mine. Underhood, way different, mine had PCV and Evaporative emissions only, his had the whole package, Cat, Air pump, EGR in addition to what mine had.

On springs, do you or anyone you know have a fish scale? You need a tension scale to test the springs for load. Keep in mind what I said in my earlier post about the heavy spring having a long hook on one end, this is what is used to control the amount of initial mechanical advance.

On the R13 / R18 I can put the old spring back in and change the slot and see what it dose.

I dont want to change to a different spring and the slot at the same time. You know 1 change at a time.

Its just a pain as the dist. needs to be pulled, taken apart for changes, put back together, installed and tested.

I know its not a high RPM motor as I shift at or just below 2000 RPM and most of the time working range is between 1000 & 1800 RPM that is low to a v8 working range LOL

I dont have or know anyone that has a fish scale. Wonder if HF would have something like that as I pass one on the way home from work. Also have a Northern Tool across the street from HF I can check with.

I did see the heavy spring was loose and know the weak spring works to the point of tanking the slack out of the heavy spring then the heavy spring kicks in, is that right?

Right now it looks like the weak spring is letting it advance just off idle RPM (1000 RPM) and by 1500 RPM all advance was in. I have been testing advance up to 3000 RPM but just to make sure I ran it up to 3500 RPM with no change in timing from the 1500 RPM reading.

Thanks guys for all the help.

Dave ----

“Dave, I tried the Mr Gasket distributor spring kit on my 460. And it pinged or knocked worse.”

This is my quote on page 2 of this thread!

Edit: typo

[FuzzFace2]

“Dave, I tried the Mr Gasket distributor spring kit on my 460. And it pinged or knocked worse.”

This is my quote on page 2 of this thread!

Edit: typo

:nabble_smiley_blush:I guess I did not read your post more than 1 time

So what did you end up doing / using to re-curve yours?

Dave ----

[Gary Lewis]

Ok this is what I have to work with from my MSD dist.

From the bottom up:

Rusty (1) spring is the old factory spring.

Silver (1) Mr Gasket kit spring you can see it is a thinner wire now side by side.

Blue (2) MSD springs look to be the same wire size as factory with fewer loops but the hooks look to be in the same areas as the other 2 springs. It also feels harder to pull it apart than the factory spring. This may be the one to try?

Silver (2) MSD springs as seen are heavy wire and I cant pull it apart. I dont know if this is the same as the factory heavy spring or not? The loops on them are just like the other springs shown, no big loop as Bill pointed out with the factory spring but looks to be a little longer loop to loop?

It would be nice if I had a scale like Bill posted about and will see if I can get something before I do this party again.

So I think I may try one of the blue springs and see what that gets me as I got to start somewhere and if that dose not cut it I will put the stock spring back in as pinging was not too bad with timing set at 10* BTDC.

What you guys think?

Thanks

Dave ----

ps: Just went back over the above posts and see Gary posted "And you can test springs by hooking two together and seeing which stretches first."

I wil give that a try now with the above springs.

It pays to read posts a few times:nabble_smiley_blush:

Thanks

Sorry, I didn't see your post until you'd already ordered so I chose not to say anything. I have a house full of company so was distracted.

The silver MSD springs are probably meant to go with the blue springs, and this manual provides some info on how they would react in the MSD dizzy. And it is important that it is in their dizzy since the weights may well not be the same.

But you want to slow things down significantly, so I think I'd try one silver and one blue MSD springs. Don't know what that will give you, but I think it'll be a lot better than what you have.

[FuzzFace2]

Sorry, I didn't see your post until you'd already ordered so I chose not to say anything. I have a house full of company so was distracted.

The silver MSD springs are probably meant to go with the blue springs, and this manual provides some info on how they would react in the MSD dizzy. And it is important that it is in their dizzy since the weights may well not be the same.

But you want to slow things down significantly, so I think I'd try one silver and one blue MSD springs. Don't know what that will give you, but I think it'll be a lot better than what you have.

I dont remember seeing the paperwork for the MSD dist. and setting up the curve in the pit box where the springs were

You are most likely right on the weight of the MSD weights and used with their springs.

I will do your "you can test springs by hooking two together and seeing which stretches first" between the blue & the old removed spring to see what one takes more pull.

I dont know if I want to replace both springs at the same time just yet.

I know if just the blue dose not work I will need to do it all over again but what if it did not advance at all?

Think Friday will be the next time I will have time to work on it and it will be cold in the garage got to make sure I had LP for the heater.

Thanks

Dave ----

[grumpin]

“Dave, I tried the Mr Gasket distributor spring kit on my 460. And it pinged or knocked worse.”

This is my quote on page 2 of this thread!

Edit: typo

:nabble_smiley_blush:I guess I did not read your post more than 1 time

So what did you end up doing / using to re-curve yours?

Dave ----

I miss stuff all the time!

I’ve got the recurved distributor in there with the vacuum advance disconnected until we get some warmer and dryer weather, then I’ll get an adjustable vacuum can in there and replace the thermostat with a 180°.

I thought it better to have a 195° thermostat in there too. But now I think I’d rather have some “milkshake” than knocking.

 

[FuzzFace2]

“Dave, I tried the Mr Gasket distributor spring kit on my 460. And it pinged or knocked worse.”

This is my quote on page 2 of this thread!

Edit: typo

:nabble_smiley_blush:I guess I did not read your post more than 1 time

So what did you end up doing / using to re-curve yours?

Dave ----

I miss stuff all the time!

I’ve got the recurved distributor in there with the vacuum advance disconnected until we get some warmer and dryer weather, then I’ll get an adjustable vacuum can in there and replace the thermostat with a 180°.

I thought it better to have a 195° thermostat in there too. But now I think I’d rather have some “milkshake” than knocking.

Did you do the re-curve or someone else?

If you did it or know what springs were used and where did you get them?

The MSD springs look good side by side but till I do the"pull test" like Gary posted I will not know if they will work.

I also picked up the new vacuum advance can it is a Standard product #VC-210 and it is adjustable other wise I would have left it and looked into if Crane Cams makes one.

Dave ----

[Whisler]

“Dave, I tried the Mr Gasket distributor spring kit on my 460. And it pinged or knocked worse.”

This is my quote on page 2 of this thread!

Edit: typo

:nabble_smiley_blush:I guess I did not read your post more than 1 time

So what did you end up doing / using to re-curve yours?

Dave ----

I miss stuff all the time!

I’ve got the recurved distributor in there with the vacuum advance disconnected until we get some warmer and dryer weather, then I’ll get an adjustable vacuum can in there and replace the thermostat with a 180°.

I thought it better to have a 195° thermostat in there too. But now I think I’d rather have some “milkshake” than knocking.

Did you do the re-curve or someone else?

If you did it or know what springs were used and where did you get them?

The MSD springs look good side by side but till I do the"pull test" like Gary posted I will not know if they will work.

I also picked up the new vacuum advance can it is a Standard product #VC-210 and it is adjustable other wise I would have left it and looked into if Crane Cams makes one.

Dave ----

I used the Crane kit in my 351 and it worked really well. If Crane makes one for the 300 c.i. engine, I bet it would work well.

[grumpin]

“Dave, I tried the Mr Gasket distributor spring kit on my 460. And it pinged or knocked worse.”

This is my quote on page 2 of this thread!

Edit: typo

:nabble_smiley_blush:I guess I did not read your post more than 1 time

So what did you end up doing / using to re-curve yours?

Dave ----

I miss stuff all the time!

I’ve got the recurved distributor in there with the vacuum advance disconnected until we get some warmer and dryer weather, then I’ll get an adjustable vacuum can in there and replace the thermostat with a 180°.

I thought it better to have a 195° thermostat in there too. But now I think I’d rather have some “milkshake” than knocking.

Did you do the re-curve or someone else?

If you did it or know what springs were used and where did you get them?

The MSD springs look good side by side but till I do the"pull test" like Gary posted I will not know if they will work.

I also picked up the new vacuum advance can it is a Standard product #VC-210 and it is adjustable other wise I would have left it and looked into if Crane Cams makes one.

Dave ----

Dave, I bought a recurved distributor from Scotty the mad porter. Learned about him here. I don’t know what springs he used.

Highly recommend him. He’s been very helpful. I’ve never had so much trouble getting an engine tuned.

I didn’t want to wait for my distributor to be done so I bought one from him.

http://parklandautomachine.com/

He’s in Tacoma Washington.