Black Bear Pass

[Bruce moose4x4]

Just saw this on the news feed at work. Thought you guys might be interested.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/enthusiasts/colorado-s-black-bear-pass-could-close-for-off-roaders-under-proposed-forest-plan/ar-AARCk2S?ocid=winp1taskbar

[Gary Lewis]

Thanks, Bruce. It would be a bummer if they close off Black Bear and Imogene. We didn't come down the dangerous part of Black Bear, but we did do all of Imogene. And I'd still like to go back and do all of Black Bear.

[Nothing Special]

Thanks, Bruce. It would be a bummer if they close off Black Bear and Imogene. We didn't come down the dangerous part of Black Bear, but we did do all of Imogene. And I'd still like to go back and do all of Black Bear.

I also think it would be too bad if more trails are closed. I don't know that I'll ever do Black Bear again, but I'd still hate to see it closed.

And off the topic of it closing, but here are a couple of videos of Black Bear I found recently.

shows a full size Ram crew cab short box. I skipped most of the video and only watched him on the little of the switchbacks that they showed (it seems like all of the Black Bear videos end after the second switchback). Anyway, for anyone thinking of taking a fullsize truck down Black Bear, that second switchback (the Ram starts on it around 18:00 on the video) will be the hardest thing to do, and you're already pretty well into the one-way section, as well as a long way down a trail with no room to pass. So going back isn't an option. The video is entirely from the left side of the truck, so you can't see how close he's getting to the rock on the inside of the turn. And the camera position doesn't show the drop in front, so you can't see how close he's getting there. But the fact that it takes about 6 minutes of video for him to move about 30 feet gives an idea of how hard it is to make that turn.

While that video shows the difficulty,

emphasizes the danger. It starts just before the second switchback and shows the rarely seen third and fourth switchbacks. At the very end of this video he rolls it on the 4th switchback. There's also a

that shows during the roll and

that show a bit of the aftermath. To spoil the suspense a bit, he did not roll off the trail, so it wasn't nearly as bad as it could've been. But a warning to the squeamish, the second video does show a closeup of a finger that was not kept inside the vehicle at all times. And all video is from inside the vehicle, so it doesn't show as much as it might (and nothing of the recovery). But as I said, it does emphasize the danger. (And yes, the driver made some pretty obvious mistakes. But this trail freaks people out enough that it's easy to make mistakes.)

[FuzzFace2]

I also think it would be too bad if more trails are closed. I don't know that I'll ever do Black Bear again, but I'd still hate to see it closed.

And off the topic of it closing, but here are a couple of videos of Black Bear I found recently.

shows a full size Ram crew cab short box. I skipped most of the video and only watched him on the little of the switchbacks that they showed (it seems like all of the Black Bear videos end after the second switchback). Anyway, for anyone thinking of taking a fullsize truck down Black Bear, that second switchback (the Ram starts on it around 18:00 on the video) will be the hardest thing to do, and you're already pretty well into the one-way section, as well as a long way down a trail with no room to pass. So going back isn't an option. The video is entirely from the left side of the truck, so you can't see how close he's getting to the rock on the inside of the turn. And the camera position doesn't show the drop in front, so you can't see how close he's getting there. But the fact that it takes about 6 minutes of video for him to move about 30 feet gives an idea of how hard it is to make that turn.

While that video shows the difficulty,

emphasizes the danger. It starts just before the second switchback and shows the rarely seen third and fourth switchbacks. At the very end of this video he rolls it on the 4th switchback. There's also a

that shows during the roll and

that show a bit of the aftermath. To spoil the suspense a bit, he did not roll off the trail, so it wasn't nearly as bad as it could've been. But a warning to the squeamish, the second video does show a closeup of a finger that was not kept inside the vehicle at all times. And all video is from inside the vehicle, so it doesn't show as much as it might (and nothing of the recovery). But as I said, it does emphasize the danger. (And yes, the driver made some pretty obvious mistakes. But this trail freaks people out enough that it's easy to make mistakes.)

From the first roll over video it looked like he was going to fast, running high range and not low range and let the motor do all the work.

Did the LC have a lift kit and stiff suspension?

The stock suspension with longer shackles works vary good for Off Roading at least on mine it did.

As you can see in the last video LC are tuff trucks. I rolled mine racing a few times.

Set it on its wheels, look it over and go racing again.

Dave ----

[Gary Lewis]

I also think it would be too bad if more trails are closed. I don't know that I'll ever do Black Bear again, but I'd still hate to see it closed.

And off the topic of it closing, but here are a couple of videos of Black Bear I found recently.

shows a full size Ram crew cab short box. I skipped most of the video and only watched him on the little of the switchbacks that they showed (it seems like all of the Black Bear videos end after the second switchback). Anyway, for anyone thinking of taking a fullsize truck down Black Bear, that second switchback (the Ram starts on it around 18:00 on the video) will be the hardest thing to do, and you're already pretty well into the one-way section, as well as a long way down a trail with no room to pass. So going back isn't an option. The video is entirely from the left side of the truck, so you can't see how close he's getting to the rock on the inside of the turn. And the camera position doesn't show the drop in front, so you can't see how close he's getting there. But the fact that it takes about 6 minutes of video for him to move about 30 feet gives an idea of how hard it is to make that turn.

While that video shows the difficulty,

emphasizes the danger. It starts just before the second switchback and shows the rarely seen third and fourth switchbacks. At the very end of this video he rolls it on the 4th switchback. There's also a

that shows during the roll and

that show a bit of the aftermath. To spoil the suspense a bit, he did not roll off the trail, so it wasn't nearly as bad as it could've been. But a warning to the squeamish, the second video does show a closeup of a finger that was not kept inside the vehicle at all times. And all video is from inside the vehicle, so it doesn't show as much as it might (and nothing of the recovery). But as I said, it does emphasize the danger. (And yes, the driver made some pretty obvious mistakes. But this trail freaks people out enough that it's easy to make mistakes.)

Wow! Several thoughts.

First, the 2020 Power Wagon has a wheelbase of 149.3" vs Big Blue's 133". And overall length is 238.9" vs 208.3. So Big Blue is 30" shorter with a 16" shorter wheelbase. So if that Power Wagon can make it so can BB. In fact, the only thing I see he has over BB is the automatic tranny, which makes it easier to back up smoothly. What am I missing?

Second, the guy that rolled the FJ was going a lot faster than I was comfortable with in the first video, and obviously too fast when he rolled it. Rick and I kept BB "on the boil" going up the passes where we weren't in danger of rolling. But on descents we were much more cautious - and you can see why that makes sense.

Third, he obviously got too close to the left/high side, and did so w/o a spotter. Had his friend gotten out and talked him through it that wouldn't have happened.

[Nothing Special]

Wow! Several thoughts.

First, the 2020 Power Wagon has a wheelbase of 149.3" vs Big Blue's 133". And overall length is 238.9" vs 208.3. So Big Blue is 30" shorter with a 16" shorter wheelbase. So if that Power Wagon can make it so can BB. In fact, the only thing I see he has over BB is the automatic tranny, which makes it easier to back up smoothly. What am I missing?

You're not missing anything. I'm not trying to talk you (or anyone else) out of it. I just want to make sure people know what they're getting into.

Second, the guy that rolled the FJ was going a lot faster than I was comfortable with in the first video, and obviously too fast when he rolled it. Rick and I kept BB "on the boil" going up the passes where we weren't in danger of rolling. But on descents we were much more cautious - and you can see why that makes sense.

Third, he obviously got too close to the left/high side, and did so w/o a spotter. Had his friend gotten out and talked him through it that wouldn't have happened.

I don't want to bad-mouth anyone based on what I see of them in a few minutes on YouTube. But yeah, it looked like he was going faster than I'd be comfortable with.

And this is the second Black Bear roll I've seen on YouTube where someone ran up on the high side and rolled it. The first was in a straight section after the first switchback. I think that driver was scared of the low side, so got too close to the high side. And this one I suspect was trying to swing the turn as wide as he could to make the switchback easier, but clearly he swung it wider than he could.

Anyway, two points from this. One, as I said before, this trail is dangerous. So are highways, so I'm not saying no one should drive it. But don't be complacent about it (and Gary, I'm not worried that you would get complacent here). And two, stay on the trail! Yeah, you don't want to drive off the low side, that can kill you. But driving off the high side can be just as bad.

[Gary Lewis]

Wow! Several thoughts.

First, the 2020 Power Wagon has a wheelbase of 149.3" vs Big Blue's 133". And overall length is 238.9" vs 208.3. So Big Blue is 30" shorter with a 16" shorter wheelbase. So if that Power Wagon can make it so can BB. In fact, the only thing I see he has over BB is the automatic tranny, which makes it easier to back up smoothly. What am I missing?

You're not missing anything. I'm not trying to talk you (or anyone else) out of it. I just want to make sure people know what they're getting into.

Second, the guy that rolled the FJ was going a lot faster than I was comfortable with in the first video, and obviously too fast when he rolled it. Rick and I kept BB "on the boil" going up the passes where we weren't in danger of rolling. But on descents we were much more cautious - and you can see why that makes sense.

Third, he obviously got too close to the left/high side, and did so w/o a spotter. Had his friend gotten out and talked him through it that wouldn't have happened.

I don't want to bad-mouth anyone based on what I see of them in a few minutes on YouTube. But yeah, it looked like he was going faster than I'd be comfortable with.

And this is the second Black Bear roll I've seen on YouTube where someone ran up on the high side and rolled it. The first was in a straight section after the first switchback. I think that driver was scared of the low side, so got too close to the high side. And this one I suspect was trying to swing the turn as wide as he could to make the switchback easier, but clearly he swung it wider than he could.

Anyway, two points from this. One, as I said before, this trail is dangerous. So are highways, so I'm not saying no one should drive it. But don't be complacent about it (and Gary, I'm not worried that you would get complacent here). And two, stay on the trail! Yeah, you don't want to drive off the low side, that can kill you. But driving off the high side can be just as bad.

Complacent I'm not, nor will I be. What others probably can't see is how steep those places really are. But I remember quite well how steep they are, and that FJ was cruising faster than I would.

Anyway, I've passed links to this thread on to my brother and my son. We shall see.