"Rocky" - 1981 F250 Restoration

[taskswap]

I think when you get everything together and apply the brakes hydraulically the parking brake will work well. It takes a lot of force and some wearing-in to get the shoes touching all the way around.

The parking brake on Big Blue is binary - it is either on or off. There's nothing in between. When I first got the winch I was supposed to wind the cable up the first time under tension. So I set Blue at one end of the driveway and Big Blue at the other end. Ran the cable out to Blue's trailer hitch, set Blue's park brake, and went back to Big Blue to set the park brake "a little bit". There was no "little bit". Just a bit and the wheels lock and Blue came sliding to me.

In other words, the park brake on these trucks can work very well. And I'll bet that yours does after you get the shoes to take a set and wear in.

Thanks, I hope so.

Lots of trouble today. I reinstalled the axle shafts which went well enough, but I've lost ONE axle flange bolt. I'm sure it's somewhere but meanwhile looks like I need to find a replacement. I understand it's a 7/16-14 x 1-3/8 but I can't find one with a shoulder that isn't fully threaded. So that's a research project.

Then I tried installing my master cylinder. The old one came out easily enough but I discovered my old MC has two 3/8-24 ports while the new one has a 3/8-24 for the rear and a 7/16-24 for the front my lines came off cleanly and I didn't want to have to re-flare the end of the front line to change it. But the only adapter on Amazon wouldn't come for a week and I'm just fed up waiting for parts. I need this truck running. So I spent 2 hours driving to every auto parts store in town until I found the right adapter. I still don't think it's "right" because the male end is flat, not inverse-flare. I can't imagine it's sealing properly. So I ordered the proper one as well just to be safe.

I did bench-bleed the new MC although I don't know how well I did. I didn't seem to have ANY fittings that would match up and it didn't come with good plugs, which is kind of frustrating since this is a necessary step. It would have been $0.10 for them to include the plugs you need instead of just rubber caps. But anyway I was able to make do and got bubbles out of the bottom ports, I just don't know if I did it perfectly.

Installing it was a chore too. This is the AC Delco "guaranteed to fit" part for my truck, but the casting is super rough. The bolt holes didn't line up! And what's frustrating is they were only like 1/16" out - not enough to work, but not enough to be "the wrong part" either. Fortunately it's cast iron which is pretty soft so I just dremeled a bit of clearance on both holes with a burr bit. But it was still an hour lost.

Finally I went to bleed the system. This went... badly. I want to flush the ENTIRE system given how bad the original fluid was, so I bought plenty of fluid. But when I went to bleed the fronts I'm getting nothing through the ports. Totally clogged. I tried cleaning the bleeders but couldn't quite get them flowing. The rears flowed well enough - too well. I think the Dorman castings are pretty rough and don't make a good seal around the bleeders so they let air in the moment you crack them. I added a bit of thread tape to one and was able to get some flow but not the way it's supposed to.

I threw in the towel when I ran out of time. Curiously, the parking brake and brakes in general seem to work fine although I know they're too dangerous to hit the road with, I'm certain there's air in there (as well as old fluid). But hey I guess it's something.

Parts waiting on:

- "Speed bleeders" - bought on a whim, why not try?

- Proper adapter for MC 7/16" port

- Master cylinder bleeder kit - might as well re-bleed it with a kit designed for the job

- Bleeder covers

- I don't even remember at this point

Winter storm coming. Looks like I'm going to get stuck another few days again. And (this seems to be a regular thing) eTrailer let me down again. When I ordered the camper tie-downs so I could go get the new camper with the RAM, they predicted it would arrive Monday. Great. But I just got the shipment notice on it today so I guess that dog won't hunt.

 

[Gary Lewis]

Thanks, I hope so.

Lots of trouble today. I reinstalled the axle shafts which went well enough, but I've lost ONE axle flange bolt. I'm sure it's somewhere but meanwhile looks like I need to find a replacement. I understand it's a 7/16-14 x 1-3/8 but I can't find one with a shoulder that isn't fully threaded. So that's a research project.

Then I tried installing my master cylinder. The old one came out easily enough but I discovered my old MC has two 3/8-24 ports while the new one has a 3/8-24 for the rear and a 7/16-24 for the front my lines came off cleanly and I didn't want to have to re-flare the end of the front line to change it. But the only adapter on Amazon wouldn't come for a week and I'm just fed up waiting for parts. I need this truck running. So I spent 2 hours driving to every auto parts store in town until I found the right adapter. I still don't think it's "right" because the male end is flat, not inverse-flare. I can't imagine it's sealing properly. So I ordered the proper one as well just to be safe.

I did bench-bleed the new MC although I don't know how well I did. I didn't seem to have ANY fittings that would match up and it didn't come with good plugs, which is kind of frustrating since this is a necessary step. It would have been $0.10 for them to include the plugs you need instead of just rubber caps. But anyway I was able to make do and got bubbles out of the bottom ports, I just don't know if I did it perfectly.

Installing it was a chore too. This is the AC Delco "guaranteed to fit" part for my truck, but the casting is super rough. The bolt holes didn't line up! And what's frustrating is they were only like 1/16" out - not enough to work, but not enough to be "the wrong part" either. Fortunately it's cast iron which is pretty soft so I just dremeled a bit of clearance on both holes with a burr bit. But it was still an hour lost.

Finally I went to bleed the system. This went... badly. I want to flush the ENTIRE system given how bad the original fluid was, so I bought plenty of fluid. But when I went to bleed the fronts I'm getting nothing through the ports. Totally clogged. I tried cleaning the bleeders but couldn't quite get them flowing. The rears flowed well enough - too well. I think the Dorman castings are pretty rough and don't make a good seal around the bleeders so they let air in the moment you crack them. I added a bit of thread tape to one and was able to get some flow but not the way it's supposed to.

I threw in the towel when I ran out of time. Curiously, the parking brake and brakes in general seem to work fine although I know they're too dangerous to hit the road with, I'm certain there's air in there (as well as old fluid). But hey I guess it's something.

Parts waiting on:

- "Speed bleeders" - bought on a whim, why not try?

- Proper adapter for MC 7/16" port

- Master cylinder bleeder kit - might as well re-bleed it with a kit designed for the job

- Bleeder covers

- I don't even remember at this point

Winter storm coming. Looks like I'm going to get stuck another few days again. And (this seems to be a regular thing) eTrailer let me down again. When I ordered the camper tie-downs so I could go get the new camper with the RAM, they predicted it would arrive Monday. Great. But I just got the shipment notice on it today so I guess that dog won't hunt.

You are really having "fun" with this project. Sorry!

On the master, I think you got one for an HD truck and yours isn't, or vice versa as that's about the difference in the bolt patterns.

As for the bleeding, that's where the later master comes into play as you can put a cap on with a fitting and give the system 3-5 psi of pressure and go bleed the system. But I'm not sure that little bit of pressure would be enough to punch through the gunk in the system. Still, it would be worth a try.

[Gsmblue]

You are really having "fun" with this project. Sorry!

On the master, I think you got one for an HD truck and yours isn't, or vice versa as that's about the difference in the bolt patterns.

As for the bleeding, that's where the later master comes into play as you can put a cap on with a fitting and give the system 3-5 psi of pressure and go bleed the system. But I'm not sure that little bit of pressure would be enough to punch through the gunk in the system. Still, it would be worth a try.

You are being made to work hard and hard work will pay off. Keep at it!

[taskswap]

You are being made to work hard and hard work will pay off. Keep at it!

Thanks guys. The encouragement always helps.

On the "gunk" topic I think I'm going to try what I did when I first replaced the rear brake cylinders. Before even connecting the hoses to the cylinders, I hooked the vacuum right to the hose and pulled fluid through the line until it ran clear. That's really easy to do for the rear lines where the hard lines connect right to the cylinder because the plastic tube for the vacuum fits right over the flare fitting.

I think it will be worth figuring out for the fronts anyway as well because I'm going to replace the lines too. In fact they just came this evening. My lines still work, but they're really cracked so I figured the end was near. When I'm installing the new line it'll give me an excuse to put some kind of fitting on the end to vacuum those as well.

I think once I'm done the only brake system parts I won't have replaced are the drums (they seemed fine), rotors (so far I haven't noticed any wobble to suggest they're warped) and hard lines, plus the booster I'll start watching for. So at the very least I've cut out the vast majority of failure points, if nothing else...

 

[Gary Lewis]

Thanks guys. The encouragement always helps.

On the "gunk" topic I think I'm going to try what I did when I first replaced the rear brake cylinders. Before even connecting the hoses to the cylinders, I hooked the vacuum right to the hose and pulled fluid through the line until it ran clear. That's really easy to do for the rear lines where the hard lines connect right to the cylinder because the plastic tube for the vacuum fits right over the flare fitting.

I think it will be worth figuring out for the fronts anyway as well because I'm going to replace the lines too. In fact they just came this evening. My lines still work, but they're really cracked so I figured the end was near. When I'm installing the new line it'll give me an excuse to put some kind of fitting on the end to vacuum those as well.

I think once I'm done the only brake system parts I won't have replaced are the drums (they seemed fine), rotors (so far I haven't noticed any wobble to suggest they're warped) and hard lines, plus the booster I'll start watching for. So at the very least I've cut out the vast majority of failure points, if nothing else...

Sounds like a good plan. And if you need to replace the rotors or drums you don’t have to get into the hydraulic system.

[Gsmblue]

Sounds like a good plan. And if you need to replace the rotors or drums you don’t have to get into the hydraulic system.

When I got my 150 and Bronco I went through the brakes as the first thing. New braided lines, new pads, shoes, rear slaves, springs. I didn’t need to mess with the MC or hard lines or front calipers.

It is time and money well spent.

If you have the self adjusting rear widget, don’t forget to do some sharp braking in reverse to set it… ask me how I know!

[taskswap]

When I got my 150 and Bronco I went through the brakes as the first thing. New braided lines, new pads, shoes, rear slaves, springs. I didn’t need to mess with the MC or hard lines or front calipers.

It is time and money well spent.

If you have the self adjusting rear widget, don’t forget to do some sharp braking in reverse to set it… ask me how I know!

Thanks for the reminder on the adjusters. I still don't have the wheels on (it's on jack stands) so I did an initial run-in going in reverse and then braking, but you reminded me that when I checked them my driver's side feels set about right but passenger's side is still a little loose. I'll give it a few more clicks this weekend when the storm moves back out.

On hold again waiting for parts (and snow to go away).

[taskswap]

Thanks for the reminder on the adjusters. I still don't have the wheels on (it's on jack stands) so I did an initial run-in going in reverse and then braking, but you reminded me that when I checked them my driver's side feels set about right but passenger's side is still a little loose. I'll give it a few more clicks this weekend when the storm moves back out.

On hold again waiting for parts (and snow to go away).

Had a lot of trouble bleeding the brakes, but did make small progress. None of the bleeders had caps so they were all hopelessly clogged - I couldn't even get good flow after clearing them out with paperclips or drill bits.

I replaced my rear cylinders so those came with new bleeders, but they were so roughly made that they'd suck air around the threads if I cracked it even a quarter turn. I just couldn't get a good reliable "bleed" out of them with a vacuum pump and didn't have a helper handy (kids are at school) to do it the normal way. And with the fronts passing nothing at all, I figured I'd give these "Speed Bleeders" they sell a try.

Boy am I a fan! Easiest brake bleed I've ever done, just attach a hose to a waste catcher, crack a quarter turn, and pump the pedal like you're used to. I bled both rears until they ran clear and no air bubbles and the pedal firmed right up.

I only did the rears so far because it's cold and wet out (snowstorm last night). I have the rear wheels off, so I can get to those bleeders easily just by kneeling. For the fronts, I either have to remove the wheels (too dangerous parked on a hill with the rear axle on jack stands) or crawl under (to cold and icy from last night's snowstorm). I'll do them tomorrow or Saturday. Typical Colorado. It was -5 today with wind chill. It'll be 55 on Saturday.

 

[Gary Lewis]

Had a lot of trouble bleeding the brakes, but did make small progress. None of the bleeders had caps so they were all hopelessly clogged - I couldn't even get good flow after clearing them out with paperclips or drill bits.

I replaced my rear cylinders so those came with new bleeders, but they were so roughly made that they'd suck air around the threads if I cracked it even a quarter turn. I just couldn't get a good reliable "bleed" out of them with a vacuum pump and didn't have a helper handy (kids are at school) to do it the normal way. And with the fronts passing nothing at all, I figured I'd give these "Speed Bleeders" they sell a try.

Boy am I a fan! Easiest brake bleed I've ever done, just attach a hose to a waste catcher, crack a quarter turn, and pump the pedal like you're used to. I bled both rears until they ran clear and no air bubbles and the pedal firmed right up.

I only did the rears so far because it's cold and wet out (snowstorm last night). I have the rear wheels off, so I can get to those bleeders easily just by kneeling. For the fronts, I either have to remove the wheels (too dangerous parked on a hill with the rear axle on jack stands) or crawl under (to cold and icy from last night's snowstorm). I'll do them tomorrow or Saturday. Typical Colorado. It was -5 today with wind chill. It'll be 55 on Saturday.

Progress!

I haven't used speed bleeders, but at ~$15/pair from what I see online they'd be well worth it. However, you said your castings are quite rough. Did the speed bleeders not suck air around the threads? I see that they appear to have some form of thread sealer, so does that really work?

[taskswap]

I haven't used speed bleeders, but at ~$15/pair from what I see online they'd be well worth it. However, you said your castings are quite rough. Did the speed bleeders not suck air around the threads? I see that they appear to have some form of thread sealer, so does that really work?

Actually it was the bleeders that were rough. The threads look like they were rolled around in sand or something. I'll try to get a good pic tomorrow. I did actually try the teflon tape trick but just couldn't get a good seal. I did not try grease or other things folks usually use. Mostly I was kind of already looking for an excuse to try something new, so...

I've read reviews that say these speed bleeders don't have "enough" sealant but they were on older versions that did look in photos like they only had sealant on 3-4 threads. The ones I got, the sealant was more like 7-8 threads. That must do the trick because these seemed to work fine.

But I think they would work even without sealant. Think about it, with normal bleeders if you want to go solo you usually use a vacuum pump - that's what I was doing. You draw like a 20-25psi vacuum on the bleeder then crack it. But now you have this huge vacuum right at the bleeder port so if there's even the tiniest leak around the threads, air is going to flow better than fluid and you get bubbles.

With these speed bleeders you're back to the old brake pedal method, "pushing" the fluid down to the cylinder. The MC doesn't suck fluid back to it, mostly it's just the return springs pushing it back. Since there's no strong vacuum being developed, I think you'd need little to no sealant to keep air from getting back in. Whatever token amount is there is probably more than enough.

For what it's worth while these do let you go solo I think it's still worth having an assistant if you can manage it. It's still easier than crack-step-hold-close-release-crack-step-hol.... over and over but with an assistant you can get a better look at the fluid flow so you know when the bubbles are out. Saves having to dump half a bottle of fluid "just to be sure"...

BTW I did get new soft lines for the front-left/front-right/rear-center but decided not to replace them just yet. It was too cold today and I think my lines are end of life but not a "tomorrow" project. I got all the parts - new washers, bolts, clips, lines, etc, but I noticed especially on my rear center connector that the 3/8 flare fittings are in really bad shape. I'm worried about breaking one because I don't have the materials or tools right now to repair those. So probably I'll wait and order some new hard lines as well and replace all the lines at once.

Until then these parts are small. I think I can just keep them in an "emergency repair kit" in the truck with those plus a (new, sealed) bottle of fluid. I'll keep a sharp eye on them for any signs of leaks over the next few months, and if I have to do a field repair I can manage it. I won't be driving the truck much, mostly just to a few shops for things like draining the R-12 from my A/C. I'll re-visit this in April or May once the weather warms up a bit more.