Gsmblue Posted March 3, 2022 Share Posted March 3, 2022 All I run are closed-end nuts, so that might explain why I’ve not seen that problem. And I do like that steering shaft, although it is very expensive. Jim/ArdWrknTrk posted on here how he made one like that for something like $35. I have a Borgeson 980 in my Bronco. It definitely feels more "connected" you feel a lot. I can see why a rag joint was used, it does suppress some of that feeling and I think some people would prefer that. Personally I like the more connected feel and I think it will work well with a blue top steering box (to be ordered mid march). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcarlisle Posted March 4, 2022 Share Posted March 4, 2022 More updates, still not good. I got the hub off. I realized I had just enough room to get a pry bar in between the hub and the back plate and I carefully worked around until it popped free. The parking brake isn't worked because the lever doesn't move at all. Neither does the adjuster. They're both rusted and jammed. One shoe is further out than the other probably for the same reason, and one of the shoes is even cracked, the corners fell out when I pulled the hub. 3" shoe so at least I got the right ones. AFAICT the hub itself it OK. I don't have a micrometer wide enough to mic it but the inner surface is smooth and not gouged or rough. I'd say it's worth reusing. I was able to get one (the worst one) of the studs out pretty easily, by the way, so I'm definitely going to replace those. Unless somebody says boo I'm going to replace them with all right-hand thread studs. Those left-hand studs on the left rear wheel drive me bonkers! The worst issue is the inner bearing basically fell apart. The rear seal is floating around on vacation, and there is a TON of play in the bearing itself with no lube to be seen. The area where the outer bearing was is dark brown from the burning, and the inner bearing is frozen on. To get it off I may have to cut off the outer race then put a torch on the inner. That said, I'd love two bits of advice, even bad advice is more than I'm going on now: 1. Has anyone had any luck with a specific bearing kit? I'd like to not have to buy this stuff piecemeal but the number of options is making my head spin. Even narrowing the field would be super helpful. 2. The FSM and other guides are super light on precise lubrication details. Should I be greasing the spindle end of the axle shaft before reinstalling it? Or should I next be diving into my rear diff? I'm not sure if the diff itself has any mechanism where its oil can get to the shaft. Or even how much oil a splined shaft even needs in the first place. All the videos I saw (all three, LOL) always had oil spilling out the shaft when this part was removed. But I wasn't sure if that was because it was SUPPOSED to (a bit of lube shared by the diff) or because it just happens that way, some spillover, no big deal... You bring up a good point, no matter what the truck is - F100 on up. If you buy an old truck, go ahead and pull those drums. I had to go buy a bigger hammer to get one of mine off. But the parts in there were junk. I had brakes before. But I didn't have faith in them and they were rusty, junky, awful. The cable for the automatic adjusters were rusted through - no cables left. The shoes had lining left, but had broken, glazed, chipped, everything bad. Front pads were worn almost to the backing plates. If you care about stopping safely, go ahead and replace your shoes and all the hardware with NEW hardware in there. This isn't to you in particular but everyone - replace everything you can possibly afford to in the brake system if it looks or feels the least bit suspect. Good luck getting it all repaired - I know you'll have it looking great soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taskswap Posted March 4, 2022 Author Share Posted March 4, 2022 You bring up a good point, no matter what the truck is - F100 on up. If you buy an old truck, go ahead and pull those drums. I had to go buy a bigger hammer to get one of mine off. But the parts in there were junk. I had brakes before. But I didn't have faith in them and they were rusty, junky, awful. The cable for the automatic adjusters were rusted through - no cables left. The shoes had lining left, but had broken, glazed, chipped, everything bad. Front pads were worn almost to the backing plates. If you care about stopping safely, go ahead and replace your shoes and all the hardware with NEW hardware in there. This isn't to you in particular but everyone - replace everything you can possibly afford to in the brake system if it looks or feels the least bit suspect. Good luck getting it all repaired - I know you'll have it looking great soon. Yeah I 100% agree here. Adding to the list today I just disconnected one of my brake cylinders to start replacing it (driver side) and a few drops of what sure looked like muddy water dribbled out. No idea what's up, the fluid in the reservoir looks normal but I know this stuff is hygroscopic. I think I'm going to flush the entire system when I bleed it. It's worth a few extra bottles of fluid to make sure I don't have ANY water in the lines. Pulled the parking brake cable today, the new one hasn't arrived but I wanted a look at the old one. Sure enough the braided/armored section is pulled away from the end fixture at the brake. Worthless. List of things wrong with my driver's side wheel: - Everything List of things wrong with my passenger's side wheel: - Bad parking brake cable - Bad bearings (literally an eighth inch of play, totally worn down and burned) - Brake cylinder stiff and heavily rusted. No fluid leaking in the dust boots but I'm sure that wold have been next... - Wheel studs a hot mess - Shoe liners literally cracked in half and corners fallen off - Adjuster rusted frozen and useless How this truck stopped at all is a huge mystery to me. The weird thing is, while it was a huge pain getting out some of the frozen bearings (I had to dremel slots in them and cold-chisel them out, even a torch wasn't doing it) all of the work involved was actually not that hard - or expensive. Spring kit, bearing kit, two parking brake cables, a pack of wheel studs, some gear oil, and two cylinders. I think I'm only out $180 for both wheels. Imagine driving a deathtrap for $180 and 4 hours labor... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 You bring up a good point, no matter what the truck is - F100 on up. If you buy an old truck, go ahead and pull those drums. I had to go buy a bigger hammer to get one of mine off. But the parts in there were junk. I had brakes before. But I didn't have faith in them and they were rusty, junky, awful. The cable for the automatic adjusters were rusted through - no cables left. The shoes had lining left, but had broken, glazed, chipped, everything bad. Front pads were worn almost to the backing plates. If you care about stopping safely, go ahead and replace your shoes and all the hardware with NEW hardware in there. This isn't to you in particular but everyone - replace everything you can possibly afford to in the brake system if it looks or feels the least bit suspect. Good luck getting it all repaired - I know you'll have it looking great soon. Yeah I 100% agree here. Adding to the list today I just disconnected one of my brake cylinders to start replacing it (driver side) and a few drops of what sure looked like muddy water dribbled out. No idea what's up, the fluid in the reservoir looks normal but I know this stuff is hygroscopic. I think I'm going to flush the entire system when I bleed it. It's worth a few extra bottles of fluid to make sure I don't have ANY water in the lines. Pulled the parking brake cable today, the new one hasn't arrived but I wanted a look at the old one. Sure enough the braided/armored section is pulled away from the end fixture at the brake. Worthless. List of things wrong with my driver's side wheel: - Everything List of things wrong with my passenger's side wheel: - Bad parking brake cable - Bad bearings (literally an eighth inch of play, totally worn down and burned) - Brake cylinder stiff and heavily rusted. No fluid leaking in the dust boots but I'm sure that wold have been next... - Wheel studs a hot mess - Shoe liners literally cracked in half and corners fallen off - Adjuster rusted frozen and useless How this truck stopped at all is a huge mystery to me. The weird thing is, while it was a huge pain getting out some of the frozen bearings (I had to dremel slots in them and cold-chisel them out, even a torch wasn't doing it) all of the work involved was actually not that hard - or expensive. Spring kit, bearing kit, two parking brake cables, a pack of wheel studs, some gear oil, and two cylinders. I think I'm only out $180 for both wheels. Imagine driving a deathtrap for $180 and 4 hours labor... You are doing it right - fix it while you are there. And brakes are a big thing - just not all that expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taskswap Posted March 5, 2022 Author Share Posted March 5, 2022 You are doing it right - fix it while you are there. And brakes are a big thing - just not all that expensive. Here are some photos for the bored or curious. Sometimes digging into an old vehicle that you don't know the history on is like being an archaeologist. If you pay close attention you can sometimes make an educated guess about what the previous owners were up to. The brake shoes are not original so they were replaced. That part number isn't Ford, there's a Bendix stamp on each shoe so I assume it's a Bendix #. As you can see there was actually a lot of liner material left but they were still a trash item, the liners were heavily glazed and one of them was cracked in the center with the bottom all torn off, while another was wearing unevenly (warped shoe). I suspect this damage was related to high heat caused by bearing failure. The driver's side bearings were dry, no oil at all. I'm going to pull the diff cover next to see if there might be some blockage to explain that, but either way the bearings were totally cooked. With my investigator hat on I suspect this was actually recent damage both because if it had gone on for long it would have caught fire, it was that bad, and also because although they were scorched, they actually still rolled very well, with only a tiny bit of visible wear to the inner races and rollers. I think this was a "caught in the nick of time" type thing. There is minor wear to the spindle but the spindle shaft is still very smooth and cleaned up pretty well with emery paper. Since the spindles were "passable" rather than replacing them and delaying the project another week (these are hard to find and expensive) I'm going to throw on the parts I have (arriving Monday) and kick the ball down the road. At some point I'd like to put on a disc brake conversion kit, so rather than sink more money into these I'll just make a note of it and budget to do that in the next year. (As a backup plan if i find a good axle at a junkyard or Craigslist listing, I may grab it and do a transplant.) The parking brake cable is original, I would bet on it. It's rusted into oblivion and broken off the end mount, but it has that "Ford" quality you know what I mean? You can just tell when you're holding something from Dorman or Bendix vs something that came off the line with the truck. So I suspect that's just always been broken. This is supported by absolutely no wear marks on the bolt head or threads on the adjuster. I figure the previous owner(s) just accepted it and maybe lived on a level street and never cared. The brake fluid was just lousy with rust and water. It's a testament to the massive brakes on these trucks that I was able to stop at all (I had great stopping power). The reservoir was full of gross brown watery sludge and the lines were too. But i need to get this truck on the road so although I'll probably get a replacement/rebuilt booster/reservoir soon, it did look like it was in acceptable shape and the top cover seal looks really good, considering. Again, investigator hat on, I suspect this was a new issue. Most likely since brake fluid is hygroscopic, that top cover is actually not as good as it looks and it's letting moisture in. I'll replace it, but for now I just siphoned out the reservoir and absorbed every drop/bit of sludge I could with shop towels, then vacuumed two bottles of fresh fluid through the system (while pumping the brakes) until it ran clean at the left rear. (I have that cylinder off right now to prepare to replace it.) I'll do the same at the left rear until that runs clean, then once I have the rear brakes/wheels sorted out and remounted, I'll bleed the front discs until they run clear as well. Some other telling signs. If you look closely at the driver's side axle nut (shown) you can see it was clearly removed with a lot of gouging and scoring, probably by vice grips by somebody without the right socket. My guess is the most recent owner "tried" to tackle some of these problems, got partway into the system, realized it was beyond him, and repeated the same mistakes re-assembling it all. Hope you're all having good weekends... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 Here are some photos for the bored or curious. Sometimes digging into an old vehicle that you don't know the history on is like being an archaeologist. If you pay close attention you can sometimes make an educated guess about what the previous owners were up to. The brake shoes are not original so they were replaced. That part number isn't Ford, there's a Bendix stamp on each shoe so I assume it's a Bendix #. As you can see there was actually a lot of liner material left but they were still a trash item, the liners were heavily glazed and one of them was cracked in the center with the bottom all torn off, while another was wearing unevenly (warped shoe). I suspect this damage was related to high heat caused by bearing failure. The driver's side bearings were dry, no oil at all. I'm going to pull the diff cover next to see if there might be some blockage to explain that, but either way the bearings were totally cooked. With my investigator hat on I suspect this was actually recent damage both because if it had gone on for long it would have caught fire, it was that bad, and also because although they were scorched, they actually still rolled very well, with only a tiny bit of visible wear to the inner races and rollers. I think this was a "caught in the nick of time" type thing. There is minor wear to the spindle but the spindle shaft is still very smooth and cleaned up pretty well with emery paper. Since the spindles were "passable" rather than replacing them and delaying the project another week (these are hard to find and expensive) I'm going to throw on the parts I have (arriving Monday) and kick the ball down the road. At some point I'd like to put on a disc brake conversion kit, so rather than sink more money into these I'll just make a note of it and budget to do that in the next year. (As a backup plan if i find a good axle at a junkyard or Craigslist listing, I may grab it and do a transplant.) The parking brake cable is original, I would bet on it. It's rusted into oblivion and broken off the end mount, but it has that "Ford" quality you know what I mean? You can just tell when you're holding something from Dorman or Bendix vs something that came off the line with the truck. So I suspect that's just always been broken. This is supported by absolutely no wear marks on the bolt head or threads on the adjuster. I figure the previous owner(s) just accepted it and maybe lived on a level street and never cared. The brake fluid was just lousy with rust and water. It's a testament to the massive brakes on these trucks that I was able to stop at all (I had great stopping power). The reservoir was full of gross brown watery sludge and the lines were too. But i need to get this truck on the road so although I'll probably get a replacement/rebuilt booster/reservoir soon, it did look like it was in acceptable shape and the top cover seal looks really good, considering. Again, investigator hat on, I suspect this was a new issue. Most likely since brake fluid is hygroscopic, that top cover is actually not as good as it looks and it's letting moisture in. I'll replace it, but for now I just siphoned out the reservoir and absorbed every drop/bit of sludge I could with shop towels, then vacuumed two bottles of fresh fluid through the system (while pumping the brakes) until it ran clean at the left rear. (I have that cylinder off right now to prepare to replace it.) I'll do the same at the left rear until that runs clean, then once I have the rear brakes/wheels sorted out and remounted, I'll bleed the front discs until they run clear as well. Some other telling signs. If you look closely at the driver's side axle nut (shown) you can see it was clearly removed with a lot of gouging and scoring, probably by vice grips by somebody without the right socket. My guess is the most recent owner "tried" to tackle some of these problems, got partway into the system, realized it was beyond him, and repeated the same mistakes re-assembling it all. Hope you're all having good weekends... Are you sure that truck hasn't been in Florida? I really looks like had his way with it. But you'll get it sorted. And the brakes will work great for a long time - including the parking brake. As for my weekend, I have six Saturdays and one Sunday. The hard part is knowing which Saturday is the one before Sunday, and I think that's today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taskswap Posted March 5, 2022 Author Share Posted March 5, 2022 Are you sure that truck hasn't been in Florida? I really looks like had his way with it. But you'll get it sorted. And the brakes will work great for a long time - including the parking brake. As for my weekend, I have six Saturdays and one Sunday. The hard part is knowing which Saturday is the one before Sunday, and I think that's today. That's a good quote, I'm going to steal it. :D Started re-assembly today. Nothing major, most of my parts arrive Monday. But since I have my replacement wheel cylinders I figured I'd throw them on. Nothing really remarkable, it's a bit of a fumble getting the bolts and hydraulic line all lined up properly (I followed a Youtube video's advice and connected my hydraulic line first, hand tight, and that helped). But it's frankly a pretty simple job. I vacuum'd the passenger side first to get out what old fluid I could. I haven't seen any brake parts kits that include the little steel pins that go into the drum brake cylinders, so I assume they're meant to be reused. I cleaned mine up with some brake cleaner and 600 grit and they seem fine... Gary, is it worth closing/deleting threads or just let sleeping dogs lie? I opened a thread for Bullwinkle, the camper rebuild that was going to be Rocky's "friend". But in a twist I found a listing for a truck camper that was affordable and a perfect fit for my needs. I've decided to get that instead of rebuilding the other one, so I won't be posting there any further. The bonus is this will give me time to really focus on "do it right" stuff for Rocky. Next two projects are the front winch and rear gas tank, but I may add a rebuild of the front brakes and steering components now that I'll have time to do it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 That's a good quote, I'm going to steal it. :D Started re-assembly today. Nothing major, most of my parts arrive Monday. But since I have my replacement wheel cylinders I figured I'd throw them on. Nothing really remarkable, it's a bit of a fumble getting the bolts and hydraulic line all lined up properly (I followed a Youtube video's advice and connected my hydraulic line first, hand tight, and that helped). But it's frankly a pretty simple job. I vacuum'd the passenger side first to get out what old fluid I could. I haven't seen any brake parts kits that include the little steel pins that go into the drum brake cylinders, so I assume they're meant to be reused. I cleaned mine up with some brake cleaner and 600 grit and they seem fine... Gary, is it worth closing/deleting threads or just let sleeping dogs lie? I opened a thread for Bullwinkle, the camper rebuild that was going to be Rocky's "friend". But in a twist I found a listing for a truck camper that was affordable and a perfect fit for my needs. I've decided to get that instead of rebuilding the other one, so I won't be posting there any further. The bonus is this will give me time to really focus on "do it right" stuff for Rocky. Next two projects are the front winch and rear gas tank, but I may add a rebuild of the front brakes and steering components now that I'll have time to do it... It is a tough job, but I'm happy to take it on. And I declare that today is the Saturday before Sunday! Seriously though, I'm glad you found a camper so you won't have to rebuild Bullwinkle. But you could put a post in that thread to tell everyone what you are doing. That will kind of close off that thread, although there's no need to delete it. And I think the extra time achieved by buying the camper will be well spent on things like the brakes and the winch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpin Posted March 6, 2022 Share Posted March 6, 2022 That's a good quote, I'm going to steal it. :D Started re-assembly today. Nothing major, most of my parts arrive Monday. But since I have my replacement wheel cylinders I figured I'd throw them on. Nothing really remarkable, it's a bit of a fumble getting the bolts and hydraulic line all lined up properly (I followed a Youtube video's advice and connected my hydraulic line first, hand tight, and that helped). But it's frankly a pretty simple job. I vacuum'd the passenger side first to get out what old fluid I could. I haven't seen any brake parts kits that include the little steel pins that go into the drum brake cylinders, so I assume they're meant to be reused. I cleaned mine up with some brake cleaner and 600 grit and they seem fine... Gary, is it worth closing/deleting threads or just let sleeping dogs lie? I opened a thread for Bullwinkle, the camper rebuild that was going to be Rocky's "friend". But in a twist I found a listing for a truck camper that was affordable and a perfect fit for my needs. I've decided to get that instead of rebuilding the other one, so I won't be posting there any further. The bonus is this will give me time to really focus on "do it right" stuff for Rocky. Next two projects are the front winch and rear gas tank, but I may add a rebuild of the front brakes and steering components now that I'll have time to do it... You almost have to call this camper Bullwinkle! Might need that thread to report on your “new” one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzFace2 Posted March 6, 2022 Share Posted March 6, 2022 You almost have to call this camper Bullwinkle! Might need that thread to report on your “new” one. I would post what happened on the rebuild of Bullwinkle 1.0 and the start of Bullwinkle 2.0 You could keep 2.0 in that post / thread as it is still Bullwinkle. Dave ---- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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