"Rocky" - 1981 F250 Restoration

[taskswap]

The gauges look great! Well, all save the voltmeter.

And the throttle obviously works. Engine sounds sweet. Can't wait to see the incremental updates.

Here's a tiny one.

I wanted to finish the seatbelts today but had to work fast, there was a snowstorm on the way. I got the bench seat pulled out and managed to loom up the wiring for the seat heater kits I'd bought:

But I stalled there trying to reinstall the seat. I couldn't figure out where the outer (retractable) seat belt bottom brackets went, trying to find a way to use the seat frame bolts with them and forgetting the seat belt brackets have their own bolts closer to the doors. There's an hour of my life I'll never get back.

Tomorrow once the snow stops I hope to finalize the seats and take a look at the top cover of the T18 tranny. My backup-switch wire is broken off the sensor, and I SWEAR I bought a new sensor and cable to replace it. TWICE. But if I did it hasn't arrived and I can't find any order where that happened so I'm going to try to jerry-rig it so I can close the transmission access panel and put the carpet down finally.

[Gary Lewis]

Here's a tiny one.

I wanted to finish the seatbelts today but had to work fast, there was a snowstorm on the way. I got the bench seat pulled out and managed to loom up the wiring for the seat heater kits I'd bought:

But I stalled there trying to reinstall the seat. I couldn't figure out where the outer (retractable) seat belt bottom brackets went, trying to find a way to use the seat frame bolts with them and forgetting the seat belt brackets have their own bolts closer to the doors. There's an hour of my life I'll never get back.

Tomorrow once the snow stops I hope to finalize the seats and take a look at the top cover of the T18 tranny. My backup-switch wire is broken off the sensor, and I SWEAR I bought a new sensor and cable to replace it. TWICE. But if I did it hasn't arrived and I can't find any order where that happened so I'm going to try to jerry-rig it so I can close the transmission access panel and put the carpet down finally.

Looks neat. You do good work.

You are installing seat heaters in the stock bench seat? How much current do they pull?

[taskswap]

You are installing seat heaters in the stock bench seat? How much current do they pull?

Thanks :) That is a VERY good question. I'm not sure yet. I bought this product https://www.lmctruck.com/1980-96-ford/seats/seat-heater-kits from LMC and in typical LMC fashion their product page is pretty vague on details, even the maker. It turns out to be a "WarmSeats" brand product. Their instructions list their Web site as http://warmseats.com/ but that doesn't load for me.

I'm going to go ahead and attach their instructions here in case anybody else is curious about the product.

Hopefully they're somewhat readable. Gary I can send you high res versions if you want to post them under docs somewhere but I'm not sure it's worth it. It's an OK product, but I'm not sure I'd recommend it over the many alternatives on Amazon.

There's no "specifications" section and that's all there is to the docs. Their instructions say you must connect it to a "switched source capable of driving 10 amps continuous current". They later say the resistance value is "4 ohms". They aren't specific, but this is a two-element setup (pads for bottom and back) and I suspect that's per-element. Let's say your alternator is really cranking and your V+ is around 15V. That would be 3.75A per seat.

Fine and good, a 10A (per seat) fuse is probably appropriate, or a 20A (dedicated) circuit for a pair. But the wire it comes with is only 18AWG. IMO that's a little on the thin side because the way they set this up, there's a relay unit you install under the seat that's switched on/off by a remote switch. Smart thinking, but it means you're doing a home-run from your fuse panel to your seats where the relay goes. (For some that may be in the engine compartment.) For me that's about 10'. Southwire's calculator recommends 14AWG for that length at that current draw for a max 3% voltage drop.

Now you just KNOW that inexperienced installers, installing both driver/passenger seat kits, are going to just tie those two together. I worry a lot of folks would be running their power wires pretty hot. In my case I ran 16AWG silicone (it's what I had on hand, but it's rated higher than 14AWG anyway) back from the fuse panel to a splice behind the seats, then cut the WarmSeats supply wires short so there's only a foot or two of that.

The next frustration is they give you this "smart" relay / remote switch setup, right? But the wire/connector from the relay to the seat heater unit is only about a foot long, so the relay really needs to go under the seat. But the connector for the SWITCH is only about 2' long. So unless you want to cut/splice that, you have to install the SWITCH in the seat somewhere too, not on your instrument panel. I have everything to do that of course but it's extra work I could have done without.

Finally, the installation itself was frustrating. I trucked on with it because I wanted to get my seats finished, but the pads are audibly "crinkly" under the seat covers, and the tape they give you to attach them has very weak adhesive, basically post-it note strength. It makes it very hard to keep the pads in place while you put the covers on.

Long story short this kit is cheap but you get what you pay for. I wouldn't really recommend these to anybody else.

[taskswap]

You are installing seat heaters in the stock bench seat? How much current do they pull?

Thanks :) That is a VERY good question. I'm not sure yet. I bought this product https://www.lmctruck.com/1980-96-ford/seats/seat-heater-kits from LMC and in typical LMC fashion their product page is pretty vague on details, even the maker. It turns out to be a "WarmSeats" brand product. Their instructions list their Web site as http://warmseats.com/ but that doesn't load for me.

I'm going to go ahead and attach their instructions here in case anybody else is curious about the product.

Hopefully they're somewhat readable. Gary I can send you high res versions if you want to post them under docs somewhere but I'm not sure it's worth it. It's an OK product, but I'm not sure I'd recommend it over the many alternatives on Amazon.

There's no "specifications" section and that's all there is to the docs. Their instructions say you must connect it to a "switched source capable of driving 10 amps continuous current". They later say the resistance value is "4 ohms". They aren't specific, but this is a two-element setup (pads for bottom and back) and I suspect that's per-element. Let's say your alternator is really cranking and your V+ is around 15V. That would be 3.75A per seat.

Fine and good, a 10A (per seat) fuse is probably appropriate, or a 20A (dedicated) circuit for a pair. But the wire it comes with is only 18AWG. IMO that's a little on the thin side because the way they set this up, there's a relay unit you install under the seat that's switched on/off by a remote switch. Smart thinking, but it means you're doing a home-run from your fuse panel to your seats where the relay goes. (For some that may be in the engine compartment.) For me that's about 10'. Southwire's calculator recommends 14AWG for that length at that current draw for a max 3% voltage drop.

Now you just KNOW that inexperienced installers, installing both driver/passenger seat kits, are going to just tie those two together. I worry a lot of folks would be running their power wires pretty hot. In my case I ran 16AWG silicone (it's what I had on hand, but it's rated higher than 14AWG anyway) back from the fuse panel to a splice behind the seats, then cut the WarmSeats supply wires short so there's only a foot or two of that.

The next frustration is they give you this "smart" relay / remote switch setup, right? But the wire/connector from the relay to the seat heater unit is only about a foot long, so the relay really needs to go under the seat. But the connector for the SWITCH is only about 2' long. So unless you want to cut/splice that, you have to install the SWITCH in the seat somewhere too, not on your instrument panel. I have everything to do that of course but it's extra work I could have done without.

Finally, the installation itself was frustrating. I trucked on with it because I wanted to get my seats finished, but the pads are audibly "crinkly" under the seat covers, and the tape they give you to attach them has very weak adhesive, basically post-it note strength. It makes it very hard to keep the pads in place while you put the covers on.

Long story short this kit is cheap but you get what you pay for. I wouldn't really recommend these to anybody else.

On an unrelated note we've had about a foot of snow here in the past week and progress has been slow. But I've also done a few things I haven't had time to post because I've been distracted. The other day, I spent an hour getting friendly with a hot-melt gun fixing two things. First, my "throttle kicker" basically fell apart in my hands as I was taking it out. I decided I did want to reinstall it, just because "it was there and working, why not" and the only damage was to the case so I hot-melted that all back together.

Also one of my instrument panel turn signal inserts was missing when I bought the truck. I found it behind the panel when I disassembled everything, so I hot-melted that back on too.

This is high-temp hot melt so it behaves better than usual even in a hot car on a sunny day. I'd never use it for anything critical/load bearing but for these two tasks I think it'll do fine.

[taskswap]

On an unrelated note we've had about a foot of snow here in the past week and progress has been slow. But I've also done a few things I haven't had time to post because I've been distracted. The other day, I spent an hour getting friendly with a hot-melt gun fixing two things. First, my "throttle kicker" basically fell apart in my hands as I was taking it out. I decided I did want to reinstall it, just because "it was there and working, why not" and the only damage was to the case so I hot-melted that all back together.

Also one of my instrument panel turn signal inserts was missing when I bought the truck. I found it behind the panel when I disassembled everything, so I hot-melted that back on too.

This is high-temp hot melt so it behaves better than usual even in a hot car on a sunny day. I'd never use it for anything critical/load bearing but for these two tasks I think it'll do fine.

Minor progress today. Too snowy and cold to do more. But I did get my seat bolted back in, this time with the seat belts attached.

Then promptly discovered that the lap belt kits LMC sells have buckle-side straps that are too short. Have to figure out how to extend them somehow. Grrrrrr.....

On the plus side I also got some super cheap plastic bed rail caps. Sometimes it's the little things. They really dress it up:

[Gary Lewis]

Minor progress today. Too snowy and cold to do more. But I did get my seat bolted back in, this time with the seat belts attached.

Then promptly discovered that the lap belt kits LMC sells have buckle-side straps that are too short. Have to figure out how to extend them somehow. Grrrrrr.....

On the plus side I also got some super cheap plastic bed rail caps. Sometimes it's the little things. They really dress it up:

We just had a discussion about belt extenders, but there are three different versions depending on the manufacturer of the belt. And since yours came from LMC there's no way knowing which one, if any, would fit.

Anyway, the bed caps do look good.

[taskswap]

We just had a discussion about belt extenders, but there are three different versions depending on the manufacturer of the belt. And since yours came from LMC there's no way knowing which one, if any, would fit.

Anyway, the bed caps do look good.

Yeah so frustrating. One belt is long enough, the other two are short:

As you can see this is me routing the seat belts around the back of the seat - I had hoped to not have to cut the cover, despite there being a bit of a "cut here" tab sewn in. If I do, it would buy maybe an inch- just enough to be worth it, not enough to be "pleasant".

What I might do is fashion a pair of 90-degree tabs out of a piece of 1"x2" angle iron, which is how the retractable shoulder belts attach. The receiver portions of the belt mount via a flat plate under a bolt, so rotating them 90 degrees gains you a bit, shifting them up onto the angle iron gains a bit more, and with routing them through the seat cover as well I think I could gain as much as 3" total. That's probably enough...

[Gary Lewis]

Yeah so frustrating. One belt is long enough, the other two are short:

As you can see this is me routing the seat belts around the back of the seat - I had hoped to not have to cut the cover, despite there being a bit of a "cut here" tab sewn in. If I do, it would buy maybe an inch- just enough to be worth it, not enough to be "pleasant".

What I might do is fashion a pair of 90-degree tabs out of a piece of 1"x2" angle iron, which is how the retractable shoulder belts attach. The receiver portions of the belt mount via a flat plate under a bolt, so rotating them 90 degrees gains you a bit, shifting them up onto the angle iron gains a bit more, and with routing them through the seat cover as well I think I could gain as much as 3" total. That's probably enough...

I think I'd do the angle iron instead of cutting the cover. You can always remove the angle iron, but can't un-cut the cover.

[taskswap]

I think I'd do the angle iron instead of cutting the cover. You can always remove the angle iron, but can't un-cut the cover.

I agree. Actually I went a little overboard. I noticed Jegs has a right-angle seat belt mounting bracket kit. It's way too expensive at $14 (each) for what amounts to a piece of 1x2 angle, two holes, and a bolt but... I must be exactly the kind of sucker they make these for because the time savings was worth it to me. Once again, setting the seats aside at "almost done" for another project while I wait for the parts to arrive...

It's supposed to be warmer today but it isn't there yet. I think I may try to tackle two small projects: upgrading the dome light to the dome/map light unit, and hacking together my reverse-sensor-switch wire somehow so I can close the transmission cover and get the carpet laid down. The one thing holding me back is I'm noticing some water on the floor of the driver's side. I think it's dripping in as the snow melts through the hole I used to add the wire loom for the door, so I guess I need to seal that better. It may be time to break out the Lexel...

[FuzzFace2]

I agree. Actually I went a little overboard. I noticed Jegs has a right-angle seat belt mounting bracket kit. It's way too expensive at $14 (each) for what amounts to a piece of 1x2 angle, two holes, and a bolt but... I must be exactly the kind of sucker they make these for because the time savings was worth it to me. Once again, setting the seats aside at "almost done" for another project while I wait for the parts to arrive...

It's supposed to be warmer today but it isn't there yet. I think I may try to tackle two small projects: upgrading the dome light to the dome/map light unit, and hacking together my reverse-sensor-switch wire somehow so I can close the transmission cover and get the carpet laid down. The one thing holding me back is I'm noticing some water on the floor of the driver's side. I think it's dripping in as the snow melts through the hole I used to add the wire loom for the door, so I guess I need to seal that better. It may be time to break out the Lexel...

On the back up light switch / wire what is it you are dealing with?

You have the switch but not the wire with the plug or got the wire but the plug is busted?

I ask because I had the switch and wire but the plug on the end of the wire was bad.

I hunted down what I had on hand and found a weather pack 2 prong plug would fit the switch.

Yea it did not have a clip to hold it in place like the factory had but it stays in place and has been good for 2+ years and 17K miles.

It worked with the T18 the truck first had and now with the NP435 transmission. Guess they use the same switch?

Now because I had the wire from the frame harness to the transmission I dont know what type of plug is used at that end if you had to make a harness from the frame harness to transmission, sorry.

Dave ----