The Deuce Build Thread

[Gary Lewis]

I've seen blocks with core shift such that the cam bearings aren't lined up perfectly. (And the mains weren't either.) I'm wondering if that's the problem here.

Core shift is the only conclusion I can come to. I put the cam on V blocks and indicated it while I rotated it, it is arrow straight.

Assuming the engine is used and the old cam didn't break, the shift apparently isn't too bad. But the bearings will have to wear to line things up.

[Pete Whitstone]

A little bit of progress on the engine build. I got the block completely cleaned and painted.

I then installed the cam bearings. I decided to slide the camshaft in place to make sure it rotated freely. It went in fine until the last bearing on the front of the engine. It did not really want to slide in the last 3/4" or so. I gently tapped on the end with a mallet, but after it slid a little more in, it was impossible to turn. Something definitely not right here!

So I used a prybar to push the cam back out, but as it slid out, the #1 bearing came out on the camshaft. Very curious - that says that the press fit onto the camshaft was tighter than the press fit into the block! I verified the cam bearing was the right one, then gently tried to separate it from the camshaft. I was successful with that, and didn't nick the bearing or the camshaft as far as I can tell.

I was wondering if the bearing was the wrong size or something. Measuring it outside the block, it is definitely oval-shaped, but I imagine that will change when it's in the block. It appears to be the right size. Then I started looking closely at the camshaft journal, and found a couple small areas that need some polishing. Nothing major, but if you can catch your fingernail on it, it's probably at least a thousandth. Since the clearance between the camshaft and bearing is between 1 and 2 thousandths, I think that's probably the issue. I'm going to try to polish the camshaft journal tonight and see if I can get it all to fit properly.

I am positive the #1 bearing was in its bore squarely, I don't think anything was cocked or anything. More to come.

Oh, and a question - what's the wisdom on using a bit of red or blue loctite on that camshaft bearing, in order to make sure it's locked in place? Good idea, or bad?

Engine assembly continues. I'm shooting for installing over the July 4th weekend.

The crank was measuring just under the spec on both the rod and main journals, although it does not appear excessively worn. Or worn at all, for that matter. I sent it out for polishing and measured everything carefully when it got back. I determined the clearances were large enough that .001 undersize bearings were called for. With those installed, both the rod and main bearing clearances came in at between .001 and .0015. The spec is .0008 to .0015, with up to .0024 allowable, so I'm happy that they are all in spec.

I got higher compression forged pistons for it, probably overkill at this HP level, but the selection of forged is a lot better than the selection of cast or hypereutectic. I weighed the pistons, pins and rings, old vs new, and found about 4 ounces of difference between them, not surprising I guess since the old is cast and the new is forged. So the crank was sent out for balancing. It came back on Tuesday so on with the assembly.

I did a quick deglazing hone on each cylinder and mocked up the #1 to see how far down in the hole the piston is. Stock is .023 I think, and these pistons had a compression height that was .001 smaller than stock, so I was expecting about .024. However, initial measurements indicated more like .026. I'm going to try to get some more accurate measurements today. Rods were not rebuilt, so no changes there. They were fitted with ARP Wave-Loc fasteners, however.

With that measurement (or at least within a couple thou) I could order head gaskets. .027 compressed thickness was as small as I could get without resorting to copper, which isn't really good for the street. Cometic MLS gaskets were ordered from Jegs and should be here the middle of next week.

Last night I got all the ring packages installed and put the pistons in. So that's where it sits now.

Next up, oil pump & pan, timing chain, then on to the heads. One thing that might throw a kink in the July 4th install date is the need to order custom pushrods. If worse comes to worst, the engine will go in on July 4th, and the pushrods and manifold at a later date. I'm hoping for no downtime for the truck other than the holiday weekend though.

[Gary Lewis]

Engine assembly continues. I'm shooting for installing over the July 4th weekend.

The crank was measuring just under the spec on both the rod and main journals, although it does not appear excessively worn. Or worn at all, for that matter. I sent it out for polishing and measured everything carefully when it got back. I determined the clearances were large enough that .001 undersize bearings were called for. With those installed, both the rod and main bearing clearances came in at between .001 and .0015. The spec is .0008 to .0015, with up to .0024 allowable, so I'm happy that they are all in spec.

I got higher compression forged pistons for it, probably overkill at this HP level, but the selection of forged is a lot better than the selection of cast or hypereutectic. I weighed the pistons, pins and rings, old vs new, and found about 4 ounces of difference between them, not surprising I guess since the old is cast and the new is forged. So the crank was sent out for balancing. It came back on Tuesday so on with the assembly.

I did a quick deglazing hone on each cylinder and mocked up the #1 to see how far down in the hole the piston is. Stock is .023 I think, and these pistons had a compression height that was .001 smaller than stock, so I was expecting about .024. However, initial measurements indicated more like .026. I'm going to try to get some more accurate measurements today. Rods were not rebuilt, so no changes there. They were fitted with ARP Wave-Loc fasteners, however.

With that measurement (or at least within a couple thou) I could order head gaskets. .027 compressed thickness was as small as I could get without resorting to copper, which isn't really good for the street. Cometic MLS gaskets were ordered from Jegs and should be here the middle of next week.

Last night I got all the ring packages installed and put the pistons in. So that's where it sits now.

Next up, oil pump & pan, timing chain, then on to the heads. One thing that might throw a kink in the July 4th install date is the need to order custom pushrods. If worse comes to worst, the engine will go in on July 4th, and the pushrods and manifold at a later date. I'm hoping for no downtime for the truck other than the holiday weekend though.

Looking good! And those bearing clearances are great. Should have good oil pressure and a long life.

[Pete Whitstone]

Engine assembly continues. I'm shooting for installing over the July 4th weekend.

The crank was measuring just under the spec on both the rod and main journals, although it does not appear excessively worn. Or worn at all, for that matter. I sent it out for polishing and measured everything carefully when it got back. I determined the clearances were large enough that .001 undersize bearings were called for. With those installed, both the rod and main bearing clearances came in at between .001 and .0015. The spec is .0008 to .0015, with up to .0024 allowable, so I'm happy that they are all in spec.

I got higher compression forged pistons for it, probably overkill at this HP level, but the selection of forged is a lot better than the selection of cast or hypereutectic. I weighed the pistons, pins and rings, old vs new, and found about 4 ounces of difference between them, not surprising I guess since the old is cast and the new is forged. So the crank was sent out for balancing. It came back on Tuesday so on with the assembly.

I did a quick deglazing hone on each cylinder and mocked up the #1 to see how far down in the hole the piston is. Stock is .023 I think, and these pistons had a compression height that was .001 smaller than stock, so I was expecting about .024. However, initial measurements indicated more like .026. I'm going to try to get some more accurate measurements today. Rods were not rebuilt, so no changes there. They were fitted with ARP Wave-Loc fasteners, however.

With that measurement (or at least within a couple thou) I could order head gaskets. .027 compressed thickness was as small as I could get without resorting to copper, which isn't really good for the street. Cometic MLS gaskets were ordered from Jegs and should be here the middle of next week.

Last night I got all the ring packages installed and put the pistons in. So that's where it sits now.

Next up, oil pump & pan, timing chain, then on to the heads. One thing that might throw a kink in the July 4th install date is the need to order custom pushrods. If worse comes to worst, the engine will go in on July 4th, and the pushrods and manifold at a later date. I'm hoping for no downtime for the truck other than the holiday weekend though.

Yesterday I had a friend over and he helped me install the short-block in the truck. I would have liked to have completed to be a long block before that happened, but I was waiting on head gaskets. Only when those were in could I check piston-to-valve clearance and determine pushrod length.

In retrospect, it was probably foolish to install the short block without checking that stuff first. If the piston/valve clearance did not check out, it would all have to come back out. After I checked it the first time, I realized that a hydraulic lifter might collapse a little and not give a true reading. Some quick internet reading showed that I should be using a solid lifter the same height as the hydraulic rollers I would be using. Great - where was I going to find one of those, and how long would that take?

I decided to go about this a different way. I was all set with lightweight checking springs and an adjustable length pushrod. I had the springs installed in the #1 position, where I was doing the checking. It occurred to me if I put something solid on top of the hydraulic lifter, it would essentially turn it solid. So I turned a disk on the lathe that would sit down just inside the top of the lifter, but not where it could compress. I used a drill to turn a rough ball receiver area in it.

Then I started grinding down the end of a stock pushrod, a little at a time. You can see that next to the disk. Then repeated the cycle of marking the valve tip and running the engine through a cycle, about five or six times. I kept taking a little bit off the pushrod until the pattern finally looked good.

Then I took a stock pushrod and lifter and measured the total stack height.

9.840 inches.

Then I measured my contraption.

9.717 inches. A difference of .123". So I needed pushrods that were that much shorter than the ones I had. I measured those, then subtracted the .123", and came up with 7.403. So some 7.400" pushrods are ordered and should be here mid-week.

A final check of the Play-Doh showed that there is plenty of piston to valve clearance, so all is good there.

Tomorrow I will remove the checking springs and install the real thing, and bolt the heads on. Then I can hook up the exhaust, but I will have to wait til the pushrods come in before I can plant the manifold. Not a problem, I bought a much thicker radiator as my 1" core one was marginal, especially with the AC on. So I need to get the fan package adapted to it.

More to come.

[Gary Lewis]

Yesterday I had a friend over and he helped me install the short-block in the truck. I would have liked to have completed to be a long block before that happened, but I was waiting on head gaskets. Only when those were in could I check piston-to-valve clearance and determine pushrod length.

In retrospect, it was probably foolish to install the short block without checking that stuff first. If the piston/valve clearance did not check out, it would all have to come back out. After I checked it the first time, I realized that a hydraulic lifter might collapse a little and not give a true reading. Some quick internet reading showed that I should be using a solid lifter the same height as the hydraulic rollers I would be using. Great - where was I going to find one of those, and how long would that take?

I decided to go about this a different way. I was all set with lightweight checking springs and an adjustable length pushrod. I had the springs installed in the #1 position, where I was doing the checking. It occurred to me if I put something solid on top of the hydraulic lifter, it would essentially turn it solid. So I turned a disk on the lathe that would sit down just inside the top of the lifter, but not where it could compress. I used a drill to turn a rough ball receiver area in it.

Then I started grinding down the end of a stock pushrod, a little at a time. You can see that next to the disk. Then repeated the cycle of marking the valve tip and running the engine through a cycle, about five or six times. I kept taking a little bit off the pushrod until the pattern finally looked good.

Then I took a stock pushrod and lifter and measured the total stack height.

9.840 inches.

Then I measured my contraption.

9.717 inches. A difference of .123". So I needed pushrods that were that much shorter than the ones I had. I measured those, then subtracted the .123", and came up with 7.403. So some 7.400" pushrods are ordered and should be here mid-week.

A final check of the Play-Doh showed that there is plenty of piston to valve clearance, so all is good there.

Tomorrow I will remove the checking springs and install the real thing, and bolt the heads on. Then I can hook up the exhaust, but I will have to wait til the pushrods come in before I can plant the manifold. Not a problem, I bought a much thicker radiator as my 1" core one was marginal, especially with the AC on. So I need to get the fan package adapted to it.

More to come.

Wow! That's creative. Well done!

[FuzzFace2]

Wow! That's creative. Well done!

Most take the lifter apart and stuff the guts solid so it will not compress.

Now if I understand right the disc was sitting on top of the lifter?

If that was the case did it raise the push rod up some and if so by how much?

Dave ----

[Pete Whitstone]

Now if I understand right the disc was sitting on top of the lifter?

If that was the case did it raise the push rod up some and if so by how much?

Dave ----

It did raise the pushrod up, probably by a quarter inch or so. That was compensated for by grinding that amount of material, plus another eighth inch or so, to arrive at the correct "stack" height.

You can see in the first photo that the pushrod no longer has the ball end on it. That has been ground off when shortening it the first quarter inch.

[Pete Whitstone]

Yesterday I had a friend over and he helped me install the short-block in the truck. I would have liked to have completed to be a long block before that happened, but I was waiting on head gaskets. Only when those were in could I check piston-to-valve clearance and determine pushrod length.

In retrospect, it was probably foolish to install the short block without checking that stuff first. If the piston/valve clearance did not check out, it would all have to come back out. After I checked it the first time, I realized that a hydraulic lifter might collapse a little and not give a true reading. Some quick internet reading showed that I should be using a solid lifter the same height as the hydraulic rollers I would be using. Great - where was I going to find one of those, and how long would that take?

I decided to go about this a different way. I was all set with lightweight checking springs and an adjustable length pushrod. I had the springs installed in the #1 position, where I was doing the checking. It occurred to me if I put something solid on top of the hydraulic lifter, it would essentially turn it solid. So I turned a disk on the lathe that would sit down just inside the top of the lifter, but not where it could compress. I used a drill to turn a rough ball receiver area in it.

Then I started grinding down the end of a stock pushrod, a little at a time. You can see that next to the disk. Then repeated the cycle of marking the valve tip and running the engine through a cycle, about five or six times. I kept taking a little bit off the pushrod until the pattern finally looked good.

Then I took a stock pushrod and lifter and measured the total stack height.

9.840 inches.

Then I measured my contraption.

9.717 inches. A difference of .123". So I needed pushrods that were that much shorter than the ones I had. I measured those, then subtracted the .123", and came up with 7.403. So some 7.400" pushrods are ordered and should be here mid-week.

A final check of the Play-Doh showed that there is plenty of piston to valve clearance, so all is good there.

Tomorrow I will remove the checking springs and install the real thing, and bolt the heads on. Then I can hook up the exhaust, but I will have to wait til the pushrods come in before I can plant the manifold. Not a problem, I bought a much thicker radiator as my 1" core one was marginal, especially with the AC on. So I need to get the fan package adapted to it.

More to come.

Buttoned the engine and everything else up this morning and went for first startup. It barked straight to life. I adjusted the base timing to 10 BTDC, figuring that the aluminum heads would not need so much advance at the top end. But I haven't checked where it is up there yet.

I let it completely warm up to the point of turning the fans on, then shut it down to look for leaks. Didn't find any. Then I took it for a short, gentle drive and put about 6 miles on it. It stayed resolutely at 180, and the oil pressure was very strong, about 50 while cruising. I replaced the 1" core radiator with a much thicker all-aluminum one so that was definitely helping the temp situation.

Checked for leaks a second time and did not see any. Now I'm waiting for it all to cool down so I can pull the valve covers and make sure the valve lash is good everywhere.

Seems like a success so far. The transmission likes the new engine a lot better. The old engine was weak and I think the torque production was below what the transmission would have liked. The result of that was that the 1-2 shift felt very very firm, nearly to the point of harshness. Now with the new engine it feels much more normal.

[grumpin]

Buttoned the engine and everything else up this morning and went for first startup. It barked straight to life. I adjusted the base timing to 10 BTDC, figuring that the aluminum heads would not need so much advance at the top end. But I haven't checked where it is up there yet.

I let it completely warm up to the point of turning the fans on, then shut it down to look for leaks. Didn't find any. Then I took it for a short, gentle drive and put about 6 miles on it. It stayed resolutely at 180, and the oil pressure was very strong, about 50 while cruising. I replaced the 1" core radiator with a much thicker all-aluminum one so that was definitely helping the temp situation.

Checked for leaks a second time and did not see any. Now I'm waiting for it all to cool down so I can pull the valve covers and make sure the valve lash is good everywhere.

Seems like a success so far. The transmission likes the new engine a lot better. The old engine was weak and I think the torque production was below what the transmission would have liked. The result of that was that the 1-2 shift felt very very firm, nearly to the point of harshness. Now with the new engine it feels much more normal.

Cool! Sounds great!

[Gary Lewis]

Buttoned the engine and everything else up this morning and went for first startup. It barked straight to life. I adjusted the base timing to 10 BTDC, figuring that the aluminum heads would not need so much advance at the top end. But I haven't checked where it is up there yet.

I let it completely warm up to the point of turning the fans on, then shut it down to look for leaks. Didn't find any. Then I took it for a short, gentle drive and put about 6 miles on it. It stayed resolutely at 180, and the oil pressure was very strong, about 50 while cruising. I replaced the 1" core radiator with a much thicker all-aluminum one so that was definitely helping the temp situation.

Checked for leaks a second time and did not see any. Now I'm waiting for it all to cool down so I can pull the valve covers and make sure the valve lash is good everywhere.

Seems like a success so far. The transmission likes the new engine a lot better. The old engine was weak and I think the torque production was below what the transmission would have liked. The result of that was that the 1-2 shift felt very very firm, nearly to the point of harshness. Now with the new engine it feels much more normal.

Congrat's!!! That is such a good feeling when they come to life that way.