Engine Drag On Restart After Long Drive

[Machspeed]

Hey gang, I've noted that when my truck is good and warmed up that there is some initial drag at restart. I do not appear to have any cooling issues and it fires up easily when cold and restarts easily when cold. The starter is the OEM unit and it has right at 100K on it now. Possible early starter failure?

[Gary Lewis]

I'll wait and see what the others say as you already know my thoughts.

(Somewhere In Time is over. Had to watch it 'cause it was filmed on Mackinac Island, where we were a week ago. Now to work on the NMSH page... )

[grumpin]

I'll wait and see what the others say as you already know my thoughts.

(Somewhere In Time is over. Had to watch it 'cause it was filmed on Mackinac Island, where we were a week ago. Now to work on the NMSH page... )

I’ve had too much advance timing drag a starter when warm. Especially after a couple hours on the freeway.

[Machspeed]

I’ve had too much advance timing drag a starter when warm. Especially after a couple hours on the freeway.

I thought about that Dane, but it seems to run so good and when I timed it months back I set it at the proper timing mark. I will put a light on it to check that timing again. Thanks!

[Gary Lewis]

I thought about that Dane, but it seems to run so good and when I timed it months back I set it at the proper timing mark. I will put a light on it to check that timing again. Thanks!

To bump this along, the opinion I gave John last night is that his starter is worn out. What happens in that case is that the worn bearing allows the armature to get close to the windings, and when the starter gets hot the windings and the armature both expand and touch. So now you have a serious drag and that causes friction, which generates heat, which causes expansion, which causes drag, which...

The fix is a new starter. But you want to go with a Permanent Magnet Gear Reduction (PMGR) unit. Starters are on the page at Documentation/Engines/Starters, and there is a tab for PMGR starters, although I'm not sure that's very helpful as it looks like you need the Lester #. So I'd go to Rock Auto's catalog for a '93 F150, which I'm sure had a PMGR starter, and get the right part #. And from there go shopping. Like maybe DB Electrical? Or Autozone? Or? Local would be good as then you get a replacement later. And you can pull your starter and compare gears.

And the wiring changes a bit. Look at Documentation/Electrical/PMGR Wiring.

[Machspeed]

To bump this along, the opinion I gave John last night is that his starter is worn out. What happens in that case is that the worn bearing allows the armature to get close to the windings, and when the starter gets hot the windings and the armature both expand and touch. So now you have a serious drag and that causes friction, which generates heat, which causes expansion, which causes drag, which...

The fix is a new starter. But you want to go with a Permanent Magnet Gear Reduction (PMGR) unit. Starters are on the page at Documentation/Engines/Starters, and there is a tab for PMGR starters, although I'm not sure that's very helpful as it looks like you need the Lester #. So I'd go to Rock Auto's catalog for a '93 F150, which I'm sure had a PMGR starter, and get the right part #. And from there go shopping. Like maybe DB Electrical? Or Autozone? Or? Local would be good as then you get a replacement later. And you can pull your starter and compare gears.

And the wiring changes a bit. Look at Documentation/Electrical/PMGR Wiring.

I was reading up on it last night, Gary. Lots of advantages to running a PMGR starter and there is some very minimal wiring changes. There was some discussion on a Bronco forum I noted regarding that wiring and I need to study it a bit more and will likely bring it here for discussion. Thanks!

[Gary Lewis]

I was reading up on it last night, Gary. Lots of advantages to running a PMGR starter and there is some very minimal wiring changes. There was some discussion on a Bronco forum I noted regarding that wiring and I need to study it a bit more and will likely bring it here for discussion. Thanks!

Yes, there are advantages. But no disadvantages I can think of.

Now to your question re brand. I am NOT a Powermaster fan, although I'm running one on Big Blue since that was what was there when I got him. (That's Scott, but don't tell him I said so as he might bring that alternator back.) So I see no reason to go buy a high-dollar starter. I'd bet any parts-store variety PMGR starter will spin your 351W easily - assuming the cables and battery are up to snuff.

So if you have an affinity for some chain store I'd go buy one of their best starters and move on.

[Rembrant]

Hey gang, I've noted that when my truck is good and warmed up that there is some initial drag at restart. I do not appear to have any cooling issues and it fires up easily when cold and restarts easily when cold. The starter is the OEM unit and it has right at 100K on it now. Possible early starter failure?

You haven't replaced the DSII module with an aftermarket one, have you?

I installed a PMGR starter on my 1980 when I built (or rebuilt?) it. It was a starter I snagged off a 1996 F150 at the junkyard a couple years prior...a fairly fresh Napa reman unit, so I grabbed it as a spare for the '84, and then didn't install it until I needed one for the 1980.

The only downside I would note is the installation of a non-original part, and somewhere, someday years from now, when somebody else orders a new starter, they might get a surprise when/if they try to connect that large live lead to a non PMGR starter...lol.

[FuzzFace2]

Hey gang, I've noted that when my truck is good and warmed up that there is some initial drag at restart. I do not appear to have any cooling issues and it fires up easily when cold and restarts easily when cold. The starter is the OEM unit and it has right at 100K on it now. Possible early starter failure?

You haven't replaced the DSII module with an aftermarket one, have you?

I installed a PMGR starter on my 1980 when I built (or rebuilt?) it. It was a starter I snagged off a 1996 F150 at the junkyard a couple years prior...a fairly fresh Napa reman unit, so I grabbed it as a spare for the '84, and then didn't install it until I needed one for the 1980.

The only downside I would note is the installation of a non-original part, and somewhere, someday years from now, when somebody else orders a new starter, they might get a surprise when/if they try to connect that large live lead to a non PMGR starter...lol.

As Cory pointed out and someone on that other forum the later factory PMGR starter would be the way to go for off the shelf parts when needed.

As for the re-wire it is cake!

Move the large cable that goes to the starter at the relay over to the other side of relay with the battery cable.

That cable goes to the large lug on the PMGR starter/

Then run a 10 ga wire from the now open large lug on the relay and put that on the small lug of the PMGR starter.

The relay now is not running mega power through it and you could run a cheap one but I would not.

Dave ----

[Gary Lewis]

As Cory pointed out and someone on that other forum the later factory PMGR starter would be the way to go for off the shelf parts when needed.

As for the re-wire it is cake!

Move the large cable that goes to the starter at the relay over to the other side of relay with the battery cable.

That cable goes to the large lug on the PMGR starter/

Then run a 10 ga wire from the now open large lug on the relay and put that on the small lug of the PMGR starter.

The relay now is not running mega power through it and you could run a cheap one but I would not.

Dave ----

You mean like this, Dave? (From our page at Documentation/Electrical/PMGR Starter Wiring: