Rembrant Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 Good morning gents, Has anybody ever heard of or used this custom built C2 Power Steering pump by Lee? https://leepowersteering.com/products/ford-cii-power-steering-pump-replacement I was doing some research this morning as I will be adding some type of aftermarket steering to my '52 this winter (undecided between a traditional style PS box, and a rack and pinion affair). A couple of the aftermarket kits I looked at suggested between 800-1200 PSI was required, and some say simply that 1200 PSI is required. The output pressure of the old 80's C2 pump never really occurred to me before, so I figured I better look into it. All I really found was the info linked below...with no idea if it is accurate or not? https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/32717-what-max-p-s-i-does-a-typical-ford-power-steering-pump-create.html#post219815 In short... "The Ford CII pump (F150-350, Bronco) flows 1.5 gallons/minute at 740 psi. The pressure relief is in the pump and set at 1400 to 1500 psi. The Ford Saginaw pump (E100-350) flows 1.8 gallons/minute at 620 psi and its relief valve is set at 1350 to 1450 psi." Gary or anybody else, can you confirm if this pressure data is correct? If this information IS correct, it raised another question for me: Why is the Saginaw power steering pump swap so common, if the pressure is lower? I realize they are smoother and quieter in operation, but everybody claims that they perform much better (easier steering, etc). Anyway, just curious on that... I know the Saginaw power steering pump swap is very VERY common...but the Ford factory parts for this swap are getting really hard to find, at least around here. I see that the 1992-1996 E-series had a factory Saginaw pump and serpentine belt, so that would make for a nice factory installation, but finding that bracket is going to be a no-go around here. Our junkyards are full of old service vans, but they're newer ones with the mod motors. So the Lee pump, while not cheap obviously, seems like the easiest/simplest solution to needing higher pressure, unless you guys can educate me on other options (for a later 5.0 SBF with serpentine drive). And why is the Saginaw pump so much better? It must have a higher operating pressure, and the info linked above from FTE is indeed incorrect? Thoughts or comments, good or bad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 I've not heard of that pump, Cory. But their statement about it makes it very interesting: The Ford CII power steering pump has long been known to be an inferior pump that frequently fails prematurely. Our solution to this was to have our own steering pump housing made that takes tried and true Saginaw internals. So now there is a bolt in option for all CII applications. This pump comes with an 11/16" shaft for a press on pulley, OEM metric pressure fitting and an OEM style reservoir. The pressure is set to 1450PSI and 2.75GPM. As for the pressures and flows, the snippet below is from the FSM section on the page at Documentation/Suspension & Steering/Steering/General Steering Service, and they seem to confirm what you found on FTE. But you can't really say the pressure is lower. All you can say from the spec's is that the Sag's max pressure is slightly lower. The two pumps are just spec'd at different pressures and we don't know what the CII would do at 620 psi nor the Sag at 740 psi. Concerning the popularity of the Sag, I'm running one on Big Blue and will be on Dad's truck. I like the quietness of the pump. And I like the fact that it won't puke fluid all over the engine compartment if I turn the wheels side/side with the engine off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machspeed Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 That's a good find with legitimate questions, Corey! I may send them an email as I'm curious about the pressure. I wished I had found this before I spent days rummaging through every salvage yard in Northeast Oklahoma looking for the brackets and such for my conversion. Following that, I had to do some hose modification to make it all fit. I can tell you, I would likely have gone with this CII Saginaw version had I found it and had a confirmed a fit. Only thing, I'm not real fond of the plastic reservoir. The Saginaw has a metal reservoir. As to the modification, it is quiet! Almost strange now turning the wheel and not hearing that CII growl after owning the truck for so long. It also seems smoother and easier to turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rembrant Posted October 15, 2021 Author Share Posted October 15, 2021 That's a good find with legitimate questions, Corey! I may send them an email as I'm curious about the pressure. I wished I had found this before I spent days rummaging through every salvage yard in Northeast Oklahoma looking for the brackets and such for my conversion. Following that, I had to do some hose modification to make it all fit. I can tell you, I would likely have gone with this CII Saginaw version had I found it and had a confirmed a fit. Only thing, I'm not real fond of the plastic reservoir. The Saginaw has a metal reservoir. As to the modification, it is quiet! Almost strange now turning the wheel and not hearing that CII growl after owning the truck for so long. It also seems smoother and easier to turn. By the way...something to note, I see in the details about the Lee pump that it has Metric threads? Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that means that the Bullnose pressure line won't fit it? You'd have to order a 1992-1996 high pressure line, or swap the fittings on the pump itself. Somebody on here went through this....do you remember Gary? Bruno maybe? Somebody got a CII pump from a 90's truck, and found out that the Bullnose high pressure line wouldn't thread into it. He swapped the fittings between the old and new pumps, but you could also order the newer line...the steering boxes were all the same from 1980-1996 anyway. The CII pumps were identical as well....except for that one little change to Metric threads. I think... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted October 15, 2021 Share Posted October 15, 2021 By the way...something to note, I see in the details about the Lee pump that it has Metric threads? Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that means that the Bullnose pressure line won't fit it? You'd have to order a 1992-1996 high pressure line, or swap the fittings on the pump itself. Somebody on here went through this....do you remember Gary? Bruno maybe? Somebody got a CII pump from a 90's truck, and found out that the Bullnose high pressure line wouldn't thread into it. He swapped the fittings between the old and new pumps, but you could also order the newer line...the steering boxes were all the same from 1980-1996 anyway. The CII pumps were identical as well....except for that one little change to Metric threads. I think... I think this is the post to which you are referring, Cory. But it doesn't outline what the threads are. Just new, old, Bullnose, or OBS. I wonder if the Lee pump uses the same bungs? https://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/file/n27691/20190511_160329.jpg Above we have an OBS C2 pump on the left and a bullnose C2 pump on the right. https://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/file/n27691/20190511_160621.jpg Here is a shot of the high pressure bungs that adapt the high pressure hose to the C2. The hose fittings themselves are a different style. The bullnose has an O ring around a tube that goes into the bung where the OBS fitting looks more like a JIC and uses a thin teflon O ring around the top of the flare nut to seal it. https://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/file/n27691/20190511_160708.jpg Here is a shot of a Bullnose C2 I had out at the shop(this one is Jr's) with the OBS bung installed as a test run in order to be sure we weren't going to hit a snag when we got off site at Kris's house. Long story short, the actual bung swap took about 5 minutes . It was a success with no leaks. In conclusion, the C2's are completely interchangeable . However, remember there is a difference in high pressure hoses. So be sure you get whatever parts necessary off of the old unit for the install. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85lebaront2 Posted October 15, 2021 Share Posted October 15, 2021 By the way...something to note, I see in the details about the Lee pump that it has Metric threads? Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that means that the Bullnose pressure line won't fit it? You'd have to order a 1992-1996 high pressure line, or swap the fittings on the pump itself. Somebody on here went through this....do you remember Gary? Bruno maybe? Somebody got a CII pump from a 90's truck, and found out that the Bullnose high pressure line wouldn't thread into it. He swapped the fittings between the old and new pumps, but you could also order the newer line...the steering boxes were all the same from 1980-1996 anyway. The CII pumps were identical as well....except for that one little change to Metric threads. I think... The 1990 pump I put on Darth from the parts truck has metric fittings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzFace2 Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 The 1990 pump I put on Darth from the parts truck has metric fittings. Besides the PSI between the 2 different pumps the GPM are also different. Is that because of the PSI they are tested at or was the PSI because of the GPM they tried to force through the pump? Makes you think dont it BTW I am running the Sag pump on my truck but it came on the motor and I did not have the brackets for the CII pump that was sitting on the inner finder of the parts truck for the 300 motor. Dave ---- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rembrant Posted December 14, 2021 Author Share Posted December 14, 2021 The 1990 pump I put on Darth from the parts truck has metric fittings. And do the Bullnose era trucks use standard fittings? I just checked the output fitting on this 1996 C2 pump, and they are M16x1.5 metric. Seems like they can be converted to regular AN fittings pretty easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat in tn Posted December 14, 2021 Share Posted December 14, 2021 The 1990 pump I put on Darth from the parts truck has metric fittings. And do the Bullnose era trucks use standard fittings? I just checked the output fitting on this 1996 C2 pump, and they are M16x1.5 metric. Seems like they can be converted to regular AN fittings pretty easily. each time i have run into this i have just ordered the hose for the newer model pumps. i do newer model serpentine conversion on most customs and resto mods. just not restorations. the thing to watch for in ordering the newer high-pressure hose is to get one without the pressure sensor fitting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85lebaront2 Posted December 14, 2021 Share Posted December 14, 2021 The 1990 pump I put on Darth from the parts truck has metric fittings. And do the Bullnose era trucks use standard fittings? I just checked the output fitting on this 1996 C2 pump, and they are M16x1.5 metric. Seems like they can be converted to regular AN fittings pretty easily. Bullnose pumps use English thread measurement system. The Bricknose pump used a metric thread fitting so I just used a 1990 pressure hose. I was also putting a 1996 steering box on. Pressure output of the pumps is determined by the customer's (Ford in our case) requirements. This is why all Saginaw pumps are not equal. I did some pictures of the flow valves and fittings for Gary a while back. pumps were a Saginaw from a 460 E-series, and one from a Chrysler FWD (K-car) E-series uses a Ford power steering box and the K-car a power rack and pinion gear made by one of two different sources (gotta love Chrysler). To throw something else in, my LeBaron has a ZF power steering pump which is a vane pump like a Saginaw, just more compact and with a better belt tension adjustment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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