Fuel Line Fitting: Hairpin or Duck Bill Clip? (’85 F-150 EFI 5l dual tanks)

[Nemesis F150]

I didn't see this post.

You can depress the Schrader valve on the fuel rail to relieve the pressure.

Fluids don't compress so there shouldn't be much volume.

If you unclip the fuel lines from the back of the driver's side frame and the cross member in front of the rear tank, you should be able to drop it far enough to reach up and disconnect the feed and return from the tank bung.

(at least I have been able to whenever I've had to get the rear tank down)

Hi Jim - you've been a great help. I feel like I'm beginning to get all my ducks in a row now.

Did some research for the most probable location of the Schrader Valve and haven't been able to spot it. The main schematic titled "FUEL LINES and RELATED PARTS, 1985 F150/250 - 8 CYL. 302 (5.0L) - E.F.I" doesn't indicate it. A logical place for it, I think, would be on or near the High Pressure Pump "A" or perhaps the "%9K044 (RESERVOIR)" shown on the schematic.

http://www.garysgaragemahal.com/1985-f-series-302-wefi.html

Searched on-line for the "9C407 (PUMP)" and couldn't find anything except small pictures. There are a number of fuel pumps with the 9C407 designation but with various model versions, so basically, another dead end. Hate to ask another ....

Question: Where would be a logical place to look for the Schrader Valve given that virtually everything on this rig is original (except tires, filters, and, oh yes, windshield wipers)?

Speaking of Schrader, (that's August Schrader: hey, this is August!) a piece of trivia: According to Wikipedia, he invented the valve way back in 1891.

[Gary Lewis]

Hi Jim - you've been a great help. I feel like I'm beginning to get all my ducks in a row now.

Did some research for the most probable location of the Schrader Valve and haven't been able to spot it. The main schematic titled "FUEL LINES and RELATED PARTS, 1985 F150/250 - 8 CYL. 302 (5.0L) - E.F.I" doesn't indicate it. A logical place for it, I think, would be on or near the High Pressure Pump "A" or perhaps the "%9K044 (RESERVOIR)" shown on the schematic.

http://www.garysgaragemahal.com/1985-f-series-302-wefi.html

Searched on-line for the "9C407 (PUMP)" and couldn't find anything except small pictures. There are a number of fuel pumps with the 9C407 designation but with various model versions, so basically, another dead end. Hate to ask another ....

Question: Where would be a logical place to look for the Schrader Valve given that virtually everything on this rig is original (except tires, filters, and, oh yes, windshield wipers)?

Speaking of Schrader, (that's August Schrader: hey, this is August!) a piece of trivia: According to Wikipedia, he invented the valve way back in 1891.

IIRC the first EFI systems didn't have a Schrader valve. In fact, here's a search for "early schrader valve" and there are a couple of hits.

And the logical place is near the regulator, but if yours doesn't have one there then I'm guessing yours is an early one.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Hi Jim - you've been a great help. I feel like I'm beginning to get all my ducks in a row now.

Did some research for the most probable location of the Schrader Valve and haven't been able to spot it. The main schematic titled "FUEL LINES and RELATED PARTS, 1985 F150/250 - 8 CYL. 302 (5.0L) - E.F.I" doesn't indicate it. A logical place for it, I think, would be on or near the High Pressure Pump "A" or perhaps the "%9K044 (RESERVOIR)" shown on the schematic.

http://www.garysgaragemahal.com/1985-f-series-302-wefi.html

Searched on-line for the "9C407 (PUMP)" and couldn't find anything except small pictures. There are a number of fuel pumps with the 9C407 designation but with various model versions, so basically, another dead end. Hate to ask another ....

Question: Where would be a logical place to look for the Schrader Valve given that virtually everything on this rig is original (except tires, filters, and, oh yes, windshield wipers)?

Speaking of Schrader, (that's August Schrader: hey, this is August!) a piece of trivia: According to Wikipedia, he invented the valve way back in 1891.

You should find the valve (or pressure test port) on the fuel rail somewhere near the pressure regulator.

But Gary may be on to something I'm not aware of.

Any number from the diagram is the Ford basic part number for every electric fuel pump ever made.

You will need the prefix and suffix to complete the part number.

For that you need to go to the Master Parts Catalog or the applications charts.

But that is why I included the Motorcraft number.

While I'm not entirely sure, I do believe that is correct for your early EFI truck.

I can do a bit more digging if you don't find the answer you need.

Edit: I see now what you mean.

When I dig into the documentation I can only find the in tank pumps and no information on the frame rail booster pump.

Also looking at the EFI illustration there, there doesn't seem to be a port for a fuel pressure gauge on the early frame rail, as Gary pointed out.

Sorry for the misleading comment.

[ArdWrknTrk]

IIRC the first EFI systems didn't have a Schrader valve. In fact, here's a search for "early schrader valve" and there are a couple of hits.

And the logical place is near the regulator, but if yours doesn't have one there then I'm guessing yours is an early one.

Gary, do you have anything to add about remaking this type of fuel line using the Dorman kits?

This is why I originally tagged you in the thread.

I know there was some back and forth with Bill when you were doing this. But the details are lost on me and I'm not going back through your thread on my phone to get a permalink where the details are laid out.

Also trying to come up with a valid and complete Ford part number for the frame mounted booster pump on this 5.0l

[Nemesis F150]

Any number from the diagram is the Ford basic part number for every electric fuel pump ever made.

You will need the prefix and suffix to complete the part number.

For that you need to go to the Master Parts Catalog or the applications charts.

But that is why I included the Motorcraft number.

While I'm not entirely sure, I do believe that is correct for your early EFI truck.

Thank you for all that information. This helps to explain all the different model names.

Sorry for the misleading comment.

Old saying: "Nothing is so bad that there isn't some good"

If there is no Schrader Valve then maybe there should be one? Ditto, or pressure test port? Is there a way to put one, or these, in one of the new lines?

My preference would be to order the lines already "made up" than to do it myself. If I didn't make it up well enough and there was a problem, it would be a lot of work to re-drop the tank and do it all over again. Once would be enough. Besides, there is still the opportunity for a problem if the connection isn't cleaned just right, the O-ring not seating well enough, etc. Preference would be for an experienced person to install the connectors.

The plan is to get all new parts (good ones) and replace everything. Clean gas makes for a happy engine.

Have done a lot of mechanic work in the old days but life was simpler back then. Oldest engine was a 4-cyl Dort with only 2 main bearings (circa 1916) and a Model T carb, set crosswise on Model T rails and running a 27" buzz saw blade. Used it to cut cordwood next to a lumber mill. Dort name plate on the radiator looked like Ford, oval, blue and white, similar writing style.

Regulator? Don't know if there is one ... would this be something good, or easy, to add? (Another saying: "Don't ask the question if you don't want to hear the answer!") Actually, for now, would just like to get the show on the road, if it can be added later.

 

[Gary Lewis]

Any number from the diagram is the Ford basic part number for every electric fuel pump ever made.

You will need the prefix and suffix to complete the part number.

For that you need to go to the Master Parts Catalog or the applications charts.

But that is why I included the Motorcraft number.

While I'm not entirely sure, I do believe that is correct for your early EFI truck.

Thank you for all that information. This helps to explain all the different model names.

Sorry for the misleading comment.

Old saying: "Nothing is so bad that there isn't some good"

If there is no Schrader Valve then maybe there should be one? Ditto, or pressure test port? Is there a way to put one, or these, in one of the new lines?

My preference would be to order the lines already "made up" than to do it myself. If I didn't make it up well enough and there was a problem, it would be a lot of work to re-drop the tank and do it all over again. Once would be enough. Besides, there is still the opportunity for a problem if the connection isn't cleaned just right, the O-ring not seating well enough, etc. Preference would be for an experienced person to install the connectors.

The plan is to get all new parts (good ones) and replace everything. Clean gas makes for a happy engine.

Have done a lot of mechanic work in the old days but life was simpler back then. Oldest engine was a 4-cyl Dort with only 2 main bearings (circa 1916) and a Model T carb, set crosswise on Model T rails and running a 27" buzz saw blade. Used it to cut cordwood next to a lumber mill. Dort name plate on the radiator looked like Ford, oval, blue and white, similar writing style.

Regulator? Don't know if there is one ... would this be something good, or easy, to add? (Another saying: "Don't ask the question if you don't want to hear the answer!") Actually, for now, would just like to get the show on the road, if it can be added later.

Ok, here's what I know about doing the fuel lines. In another post I'll look for part numbers and discuss regulators and Schrader valves.

Yes, the supply is 3/8" and the return is 5/16". However, Dorman sells a roll of 3/8" Nylon line that is just long enough to do the whole truck, both supply and return: Dorman 800-072 3/8 in. Nylon Fuel Line - Black, 25 ft.. And they sell connectors that connect the 3/8" line to the 3/8" steel line as well as connectors that connect 3/8" line to 5/16" steel line. But to put the line on the barbs of the connectors you either need to be pretty good with heat or, better yet, use the Dorman 800-301 Fuel Line Repair Tool.

That's what I did and there are NO leaks. It went together very nicely and actually pretty easily.

[Gary Lewis]

Any number from the diagram is the Ford basic part number for every electric fuel pump ever made.

You will need the prefix and suffix to complete the part number.

For that you need to go to the Master Parts Catalog or the applications charts.

But that is why I included the Motorcraft number.

While I'm not entirely sure, I do believe that is correct for your early EFI truck.

Thank you for all that information. This helps to explain all the different model names.

Sorry for the misleading comment.

Old saying: "Nothing is so bad that there isn't some good"

If there is no Schrader Valve then maybe there should be one? Ditto, or pressure test port? Is there a way to put one, or these, in one of the new lines?

My preference would be to order the lines already "made up" than to do it myself. If I didn't make it up well enough and there was a problem, it would be a lot of work to re-drop the tank and do it all over again. Once would be enough. Besides, there is still the opportunity for a problem if the connection isn't cleaned just right, the O-ring not seating well enough, etc. Preference would be for an experienced person to install the connectors.

The plan is to get all new parts (good ones) and replace everything. Clean gas makes for a happy engine.

Have done a lot of mechanic work in the old days but life was simpler back then. Oldest engine was a 4-cyl Dort with only 2 main bearings (circa 1916) and a Model T carb, set crosswise on Model T rails and running a 27" buzz saw blade. Used it to cut cordwood next to a lumber mill. Dort name plate on the radiator looked like Ford, oval, blue and white, similar writing style.

Regulator? Don't know if there is one ... would this be something good, or easy, to add? (Another saying: "Don't ask the question if you don't want to hear the answer!") Actually, for now, would just like to get the show on the road, if it can be added later.

Oh yes, I forgot to say that you may be able to buy the lines already made up. I'll work on those part numbers in another post if you want. But I doubt you can find them and if you do they won't be cheap.

As for the frame mounted fuel pump, guess what was missing from this site? But it is there now at Documentation/Fuel Systems/Fuel System Part Numbers/Fuel Senders And Pumps. But we'll include it here for simplicity.

As for the regulator, it is on the back of the fuel delivery manifold and is base part # 9C968.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Oh yes, I forgot to say that you may be able to buy the lines already made up. I'll work on those part numbers in another post if you want. But I doubt you can find them and if you do they won't be cheap.

As for the frame mounted fuel pump, guess what was missing from this site? But it is there now at Documentation/Fuel Systems/Fuel System Part Numbers/Fuel Senders And Pumps. But we'll include it here for simplicity.

As for the regulator, it is on the back of the fuel delivery manifold and is base part # 9C968.

Thanks for including the frame mounted part number Gary!

Looking these things up on my phone is fraught at best.

E7TZ-9C407-B does seem to cross to the Motorcraft pump I've shown above.

but Wowzzer! They are REALLY proud of that little thing!

I'm sure they are available in the aftermarket from Wells, Carter, Delphi or others, without the bloody nose.

 

[Nemesis F150]

Ok, here's what I know about doing the fuel lines. In another post I'll look for part numbers and discuss regulators and Schrader valves.

Yes, the supply is 3/8" and the return is 5/16". However, Dorman sells a roll of 3/8" Nylon line that is just long enough to do the whole truck, both supply and return

Music to my ears! Question: (the Devil is in the details!): Does this apply to a long bed???

(Note: If not, I've heard that Nylon can stretch )

Anyway, there was this post:

"Rusty S85 Aug 6, 2021 10:53am

should be 5/16" hardline.

That is what is on my truck is 5/16" line from tank to carb.  Going to be replaced with 3/8" hardline as 5/16" is too small for high volume high pressure EFI pump.  For a carb 5/16" would be fine for a stock or fairly stock engine....."

url reference: http://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/Fuel-Line-Fix-td101554.html

(Note: I don't know how to cross-thread quote something)

So, going all 3/8", round trip, wouldn't hurt and might even be helpful.

Question: What does anyone know about the clips that hold the tubes/lines to the rail? would gong all 3/8" create a size problem?

That's what I did and there are NO leaks. It went together very nicely and actually pretty easily.

Gary - this sounds VERY encouraging!

With all this information I think I'm game to do the connectors myself.

Question: On your project, did you put the foam cover on the lines (like is shown in my pictures)?

If no one has done it, I'd be willing to make a How-To video about making up the connectors on the Nylon lines.

Thanks a bunch for all the helpful URLs.

[Nemesis F150]

Thanks for including the frame mounted part number Gary!

Looking these things up on my phone is fraught at best.

E7TZ-9C407-B does seem to cross to the Motorcraft pump I've shown above.

but Wowzzer! They are REALLY proud of that little thing!

I'm sure they are available in the aftermarket from Wells, Carter, Delphi or others, without the bloody nose.

Ye$$$$!

I've noticed that too!

The Model A had a gravity-feed tank but Ford has "improved" things, but on the other hand, Model A's didn't have fuel injection.