Bulletproof250 Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 Before I get into the diagnosis path, an waste time in the hot day, as we're having a heatwave here in New England. Does anyone have an Idea of how this might have happened? Saturday Morning (about 65°F) 1. Truck sat all week I push the pedal to the floor 2 times. 2. Turn the key, engine made about <1 revolution and started right up. 3. I drove the truck a few times (5), one trip I had gone about 50 Miles of driving. Sunday (about 85°F) 1. I push the pedal to the floor 1 time. 2. Turn the key, engine made about <1 revolution and started right up. 3. Drove the truck 3+ times during the day. short trips around town (<15 miles round trip) 4. On Sunday evening I drove the truck to the store, 5. Came back out side after about 10 Minutes, tapped(<1/8th) the gas with my foot (I don't know why) 6. Turned the Key, and it did not start at all 7. Pressed the pedal to the floor and cranked, still nothing 8. Took the air cleaner off Pinned the Choke and the throttle plates open, and went back into the store for about 10 Min. 9. I was hoping to find some starting fluid in the store but there wasn't any. 10. Kept the Choke plate open aby released the Throttle 11. Cranked the engine, nothing 12. Waited about 10 Minutes with the Choke and the throttle plates pinned open 13. Pumped the Throttle a few time while cranking, and it seemed to turn over slightly faster. 14. Walked to a gas station and bought the starting fluid (took about 5-10 Min) 15. Un-pinned the choke and throttle Plates sprayed a shot in the the carb (<1/2 second spray) 16. Cranked engine, it did not fire. 17. Gave it a full 1-second spray. 18. Cranked the engine fired right up drove it home. - drove an operated fine. Yesterday evening (about 90°F) 1. Truck sat all week I push the pedal to the floor 2 times. 2. Turned the key, it did not fire up. I've read a little about Vapor-lock and it sounds similar however I would have though it should fire right up like normal yesterday. I think all the specs of the truck are in my signature but it's a 351W, with the 2bbl. Anyone here have a similar issue? Could it be due to the heat, and exaggerating another issue I may be unaware of? i.e. timing or mixture? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 You didn't say how far it is to the store, but if it isn't far and the engine was still needing choke then everything you did up to the shot of ether may have been in the wrong direction. But the long shot of ether was enough to get it going. So here's my guess: Your carb is giving the engine a slightly lean air/fuel mix at idle, which means the engine would like a bit of choke to get started. But if the choke was set slightly lean then the fairly high ambient air temp may have it already coming off just enough to prevent the engine from starting. I think I'd pull the air cleaner on a hot day but when the engine hasn't been started, crack the throttle slightly to let the choke set, and see where it goes. If I'm right it won't close very much, in which case I'd dial in one more notch on the choke and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Whitstone Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 Crud in the carb maybe? How old is your tank? Do you have a clear filter before the carb and if so, what does it look like? I am thinking that junk from the tank may be making its way into the carb and blocking certain smaller passages, maybe in the idle circuit, which is where it would be drawing fuel when you are trying to start it and your foot is not on the gas. Those circuits are pretty small and most susceptible to being blocked by junk. Then when you gave it a good shot of the starting fluid, it fueled the engine enough to get fired, and that turbulence dislodged the sludge? It's a theory, anyways... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gsmblue Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 Crud in the carb maybe? How old is your tank? Do you have a clear filter before the carb and if so, what does it look like? I am thinking that junk from the tank may be making its way into the carb and blocking certain smaller passages, maybe in the idle circuit, which is where it would be drawing fuel when you are trying to start it and your foot is not on the gas. Those circuits are pretty small and most susceptible to being blocked by junk. Then when you gave it a good shot of the starting fluid, it fueled the engine enough to get fired, and that turbulence dislodged the sludge? It's a theory, anyways... Temps here have soared from the 70s to the 100s. I have had some hot start issues the first time I fire up the F350. Sounds just like your problem. I attribute it to the choke setting as when I started it when it was cool early yesterday there was no problem. Chokes do need seasonal adjustment if you have wide temperature swings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletproof250 Posted June 30, 2021 Author Share Posted June 30, 2021 Temps here have soared from the 70s to the 100s. I have had some hot start issues the first time I fire up the F350. Sounds just like your problem. I attribute it to the choke setting as when I started it when it was cool early yesterday there was no problem. Chokes do need seasonal adjustment if you have wide temperature swings. Gary, Pete, and Gsm, Thank you guys for weighing-in on what I felt was a stupid issue. Pete, I feel you man, I went through 3 Carb-cleaning episodes until I replaced the tank with a plastic one. I haven't checked the in-line frame I added between the pump and the Carb, but I figure it's not too bad. If it had been 2 years ago before I replaced the tank I'd dig into that. Thanks. I went with a plastic one from this place: https://www.justgastanks.com/1980-1984-ford-pickup-2/ Gary and Gsm, The choke may be the culprit, although it seemed fine on all of the other days. Gary to answer you question the store is about 5 or so miles away, I figure the choke would be open by then. Just to clarify, are you guys telling me that by pinning the plates open, I was giving to too much air? and pumping on the gas would not have made it rich enough to fire? ... and in from from the peanut gallery at work: Possibly Vacuum Leak? But again, I haven't seen a significant change in low rpm performance... Even if I include the Peanut Gallery's comments, I only have 3 things to check, this seams better already 1. Fuel filter 2. Choke Adjustment 3. Vacuum Leak Do I hear any takers on Ignition timing? Thanks again, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 Gary, Pete, and Gsm, Thank you guys for weighing-in on what I felt was a stupid issue. Pete, I feel you man, I went through 3 Carb-cleaning episodes until I replaced the tank with a plastic one. I haven't checked the in-line frame I added between the pump and the Carb, but I figure it's not too bad. If it had been 2 years ago before I replaced the tank I'd dig into that. Thanks. I went with a plastic one from this place: https://www.justgastanks.com/1980-1984-ford-pickup-2/ Gary and Gsm, The choke may be the culprit, although it seemed fine on all of the other days. Gary to answer you question the store is about 5 or so miles away, I figure the choke would be open by then. Just to clarify, are you guys telling me that by pinning the plates open, I was giving to too much air? and pumping on the gas would not have made it rich enough to fire? ... and in from from the peanut gallery at work: Possibly Vacuum Leak? But again, I haven't seen a significant change in low rpm performance... Even if I include the Peanut Gallery's comments, I only have 3 things to check, this seams better already 1. Fuel filter 2. Choke Adjustment 3. Vacuum Leak Do I hear any takers on Ignition timing? Thanks again, Yes, with the choke pinned open you may not have had enough gas to start a "cold" engine. And especially if your idle air/fuel mix is lean, which can happen if you don't have it adjusted correctly or have a new vacuum leak. Said another way, I don't think it is a timing issue, although that can cause problems. I think it is an air/fuel ratio issue. And I think when it isn't starting that you have too much air and not enough fuel. That may well be due to the choke not coming on far enough, or a vacuum leak, or both. How does it run when it is fully warmed up? Is the idle steady and at the same RPM it has always been at? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzFace2 Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 Yes, with the choke pinned open you may not have had enough gas to start a "cold" engine. And especially if your idle air/fuel mix is lean, which can happen if you don't have it adjusted correctly or have a new vacuum leak. Said another way, I don't think it is a timing issue, although that can cause problems. I think it is an air/fuel ratio issue. And I think when it isn't starting that you have too much air and not enough fuel. That may well be due to the choke not coming on far enough, or a vacuum leak, or both. How does it run when it is fully warmed up? Is the idle steady and at the same RPM it has always been at? Alex, I am guessing this is your first going with a motor that has a carb? Every motor with a carb will have its own process for starting for when it is cold or hot outside and the same for the motor if cold or up to temp. The trick is how long will it take for you to find it LOL The other thing that dose not help is today's fuel. It is not made for motors that use a carb and the reason why we have issues like this and mostly hot restarts. Dave ---- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletproof250 Posted June 30, 2021 Author Share Posted June 30, 2021 Alex, I am guessing this is your first going with a motor that has a carb? Every motor with a carb will have its own process for starting for when it is cold or hot outside and the same for the motor if cold or up to temp. The trick is how long will it take for you to find it LOL The other thing that dose not help is today's fuel. It is not made for motors that use a carb and the reason why we have issues like this and mostly hot restarts. Dave ---- Dave, Not my first engine with a Carb, but the first time I'm doing things right with a Carb'd Truck. ******************8Gary and Gsm ! You guys were right! TOO LEAN*************** 1 Turn of choke plate adjustment screw (5?)and it fired right up. I tried it just before and I started and nothing, it didn't matter when I even pumped the pedal. I stopped, I went and turned the screw, voilia! Started it right up. I knew I asked the right crew, so happy I didn't go diggin' into anything too deep, Thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 Dave, Not my first engine with a Carb, but the first time I'm doing things right with a Carb'd Truck. ******************8Gary and Gsm ! You guys were right! TOO LEAN*************** 1 Turn of choke plate adjustment screw (5?)and it fired right up. I tried it just before and I started and nothing, it didn't matter when I even pumped the pedal. I stopped, I went and turned the screw, voilia! Started it right up. I knew I asked the right crew, so happy I didn't go diggin' into anything too deep, Thanks again Congrat's!!!! Glad you got it going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpin Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 Dave, Not my first engine with a Carb, but the first time I'm doing things right with a Carb'd Truck. ******************8Gary and Gsm ! You guys were right! TOO LEAN*************** 1 Turn of choke plate adjustment screw (5?)and it fired right up. I tried it just before and I started and nothing, it didn't matter when I even pumped the pedal. I stopped, I went and turned the screw, voilia! Started it right up. I knew I asked the right crew, so happy I didn't go diggin' into anything too deep, Thanks again That’s great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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