Planning For Big Blue's Trip To Ouray

[Gary Lewis]

There is a bypass. There didn't used to be, so the AllTrails description might be old. But if you are going up the trail (from north to south) the bypass starts at note 2. Going straight there is the bypass, turning right is the "main trail", which include The Wall.

I don't specifically remember the "important fork" at note 3, but there are a few little pullouts that allow people to get around a traffic jam (with some help from the traffic jammers). That might be what they are talking about.

Generally I like going up difficult trails rather than down them. It makes them more challenging, but it also makes it easier to bail out by turning around if I find myself in over my head, or if I break something. Most people seem to agree with me, at least on Poughkeepsie, because most of the traffic seems to be going up the trail (from north to south) most of the time.

Still, I'm recommending that you come in from the top (the south end, by Lake Como). That's because the top of the trail is easier than the bottom, and it's also a shorter drive to get to The Wall. So that gives you your best, easiest chance to get to where you can see The Wall and make up your own mind.

Going down from the top you'll stay on the main trail when you get to the top of the bypass. (You might not see the bypass there, the main trail goes straight and is much more apparent. The bypass is a pretty small turn off to the right.)

Soon you'll get to a place where the trail splits into several options going down into a bowl. If you're like me the first time I drove Poughkeepsie (which was driving down it in 2000 when I was a lot less experienced) the options here might be a bit intimidating. If I recall correctly there's nothing that looks that likely to damage anything, but it does seem steep and sandy, like it might be hard to get back up if you need to. Don't sell this section short. In the grand scheme of things it's not all THAT hard, but it probably will be the hardest trail you've done so far. I'm pretty confident Big Blue can make it down and up this section, but I'm not there to see what it's like now, and I'm not the one that needs to be confident. Don't do it if you don't want to.

If you choose not to do this section you won't want to do The Wall either, but if you want to see it, it's not that much farther down. So park anywhere you aren't blocking the trail and walk down (keeping in mind that you are around 10,000 elevation and will need to walk back up).

Whether you walk or drive down to The Wall, don't worry, you'll know when to stop! Like the bowl you just went past, The Wall is a bunch of different trails coming up out of a bowl. There's lots of room on top to park somewhere out of the way and look around.

The easiest way down and probably up is a long sandy trail down the right side / up the left side. But that was closed off with a cable when I was there in 2018.

The next easiest is a short rocky drop / climb on the left side going down / right side going up. Going up the right side of this climb is the easiest, but the breakover angle at the top catches most vehicles. Still, if you are going up you can try it. Worst thing is that if you drag you back back down.

The left side of this climb (again, the climb is on the right going up, but I'm talking about the left side of the right side, if that makes sense) is harder, but most vehicles don't get hung up. You might lift a front tire (which can be pretty exciting!) or you might just sit and spin. But there is a winch point above this section (a steel eye set in the rock), so winching is an option.

If you are driving down The Wall I think this "left side of the right side" (which is now the right side of the left side as you look down) is the best bet. You're going down so traction isn't an issue. And as long as you stay straight on the hill you'll fall to the right place!

The middle section (to the left of the section I've just been talking about as you look up the hill) apparently has been easier at times, but both times I was there it was harder. And if you take the right side of THAT route you are very likely to dent your roof on the rock.

Anyway, that's The Wall. It's definitely harder than the bowl above it, and again, don't do it if you aren't pretty confident. This trail is the real deal.

Below The Wall there's a narrow trail that snakes down through some rocks and sand, eventually ending up at an easy trail leading over to where the bypass breaks off. This narrow section again is tougher than most of what you'll see in that area, but it's easier than The Wall. Still, make sure you are confident that you can either get down that section or back up The Wall before going down The Wall.

Past where the bypass rejoins the trail is easy relative to what you just went past. But it's still one of the hardest trails in the area. It's steep and kind of like pea gravel in places, so lockers give a lot more confidence going up (your TrueTrac/OX will be fine here).

Again, Bob, thanks for the detailed response.

I, too, like the idea of going up difficult stretches rather than down. So I think if we try The Wall we will come in from the north, up the trail.

But to scout it out I think I'd like to come in from the south given how close we will be at Hurricane Pass on what I think will be Day 2. And regarding that you said:

Soon you'll get to a place where the trail splits into several options going down into a bowl. If you're like me the first time I drove Poughkeepsie (which was driving down it in 2000 when I was a lot less experienced) the options here might be a bit intimidating. If I recall correctly there's nothing that looks that likely to damage anything, but it does seem steep and sandy, like it might be hard to get back up if you need to. Don't sell this section short. In the grand scheme of things it's not all THAT hard, but it probably will be the hardest trail you've done so far. I'm pretty confident Big Blue can make it down and up this section, but I'm not there to see what it's like now, and I'm not the one that needs to be confident. Don't do it if you don't want to.

I'd like to try the bowl, but want to make sure I know where it is. I think from what you've said it is in the green circle, right? If so, what is in the blue circle? (The yellow one is supposed to be The Wall, according to All Trails.) And it is just soft, albeit steep? Ok, sounds like something we can do.

As for The Wall itself, it is one of those "I've got it, I've got it, I ain't got it" things. I understand your words now, but when I'm there looking at it I'll probably have to re-read and re-think things. But let me get back to that in a day or two and I'll ask more questions.

Thanks again!

[Nothing Special]

Again, Bob, thanks for the detailed response.

I, too, like the idea of going up difficult stretches rather than down. So I think if we try The Wall we will come in from the north, up the trail.

But to scout it out I think I'd like to come in from the south given how close we will be at Hurricane Pass on what I think will be Day 2. And regarding that you said:

Soon you'll get to a place where the trail splits into several options going down into a bowl. If you're like me the first time I drove Poughkeepsie (which was driving down it in 2000 when I was a lot less experienced) the options here might be a bit intimidating. If I recall correctly there's nothing that looks that likely to damage anything, but it does seem steep and sandy, like it might be hard to get back up if you need to. Don't sell this section short. In the grand scheme of things it's not all THAT hard, but it probably will be the hardest trail you've done so far. I'm pretty confident Big Blue can make it down and up this section, but I'm not there to see what it's like now, and I'm not the one that needs to be confident. Don't do it if you don't want to.

I'd like to try the bowl, but want to make sure I know where it is. I think from what you've said it is in the green circle, right? If so, what is in the blue circle? (The yellow one is supposed to be The Wall, according to All Trails.) And it is just soft, albeit steep? Ok, sounds like something we can do.

As for The Wall itself, it is one of those "I've got it, I've got it, I ain't got it" things. I understand your words now, but when I'm there looking at it I'll probably have to re-read and re-think things. But let me get back to that in a day or two and I'll ask more questions.

Thanks again!

I THINK the bowl I'm talking about is in the blue circle. I'm not sure what's in the green circle. The worst switchbacks on the bypass are right up at the top, so that might be that area. And yes, I think the yellow circle is The Wall.

As to what exactly the bowl is like, I don't remember for sure. I know I was pretty intimidated by it in 2000, but after driving down it I wasn't too worried when we came up a day or two later (The Wall was a lot easier in 2000 than it was in 2018). But then when we drove up it in 2018 we barely slowed down.

[Gary Lewis]

I THINK the bowl I'm talking about is in the blue circle. I'm not sure what's in the green circle. The worst switchbacks on the bypass are right up at the top, so that might be that area. And yes, I think the yellow circle is The Wall.

As to what exactly the bowl is like, I don't remember for sure. I know I was pretty intimidated by it in 2000, but after driving down it I wasn't too worried when we came up a day or two later (The Wall was a lot easier in 2000 than it was in 2018). But then when we drove up it in 2018 we barely slowed down.

Maybe that is the switchbacks. It looks like there's an easy way down on the right, with a hard way down in the middle.

However, I'm confused. You said "(The Wall was a lot easier in 2000 than it was in 2018). But then when we drove up it in 2018 we barely slowed down." Do you maybe have that the wrong way 'round?

In any event, you are saying Big Blue is capable, so I need to get my ability and confidence up to match his capabilities. So maybe Ophir Pass & Imogene on Day 1, Engineer Mountain Road et al on Day 2 as well as a peek at The Wall, Poughkeepsie Gulch & The Wall on Day 3, and then MAYBE Black Bear on Day 4.

 

[ctubutis]

Maybe that is the switchbacks. It looks like there's an easy way down on the right, with a hard way down in the middle.

However, I'm confused. You said "(The Wall was a lot easier in 2000 than it was in 2018). But then when we drove up it in 2018 we barely slowed down." Do you maybe have that the wrong way 'round?

In any event, you are saying Big Blue is capable, so I need to get my ability and confidence up to match his capabilities. So maybe Ophir Pass & Imogene on Day 1, Engineer Mountain Road et al on Day 2 as well as a peek at The Wall, Poughkeepsie Gulch & The Wall on Day 3, and then MAYBE Black Bear on Day 4.

All this talk of minivans, I guess I can do this:

~~

I watched a

y'all are talking about, I don't think I'd be doing that myself; I was more into backpacking & hiking, *driving* up there never impressed me for whatever reason.

But seeing the old gold mines (and dare I say ghost towns) is pretty cool, my father took us as a family up to some places when we used to drive to Colorado on vacations in the mid-1970s from Chicago. But we were limited to places we could go in a sedan, and so I doubt I've ever been to these places you guys are talking about, even though I've lived here for 43 years.

Regardless, I'm sure you'll enjoy yourselves, Gary & Janey.

[Nothing Special]

.... However, I'm confused. You said "(The Wall was a lot easier in 2000 than it was in 2018). But then when we drove up it in 2018 we barely slowed down." Do you maybe have that the wrong way 'round?

Sorry, I wasn't clear. The Wall was much easier in 2000 than it was in 2018. But it was the bowl above The Wall that barely slowed us down in 2018. All i meant by that was that we didn't look at it much on that trip. And our first trip was 21 years ago, so the faded memories are worth little.

In any event, you are saying Big Blue is capable, so I need to get my ability and confidence up to match his capabilities....

I am NOT saying that! Yes, I'm saying that Big Blue is plenty capable of doing Poughkeepsie Gulch, and with the possible exception of the first switchback (which is the second switchback), also Black Bear. But I am not saying that you need to catch up to him. You need to have fun and get back home in one piece! If that means doing Poughkeepsie and Black Bear, then fine. But if it means passing on either or both? That's fine too.

Have fun and be safe! (you can decide if it's in that order or the other way around )

 

[Nothing Special]

.... As for The Wall itself, it is one of those "I've got it, I've got it, I ain't got it" things. I understand your words now, but when I'm there looking at it I'll probably have to re-read and re-think things. But let me get back to that in a day or two and I'll ask more questions....

Here are some pictures to help fit it all together.

First is the "easy" part of the trail coming up before The Wall. It looks flat and level in the foreground. But if you look at the background you get an idea of how steep it is! This is hard to walk on. Trucks have an easier time than pedestrians, but it is spooky hearing the rocks roll out from under your tires if you're not used to it.

Here's a picture of The Wall from 2000. It doesn't look a lot like this anymore, but it might help visualize where the different routes are. Just looking above the little road that's above the grass and rock just above my old Jeep, the route to the right is the "right side" that was the easiest in 2018. The route in the center of the picture was a lot harder.

I posted this picture before It shows my Bronco in 2018 on "the left side of the right side". This is probably the most doable route (it's the only place I was successful in 2018), although it might require winching.

https://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/file/n13104/DSC_7643_Poughkeepsie.jpg

I posted this next picture before too. It shows someone on the route that's in the middle of the 2000 picture (see what I mean about it being harder in 2018?).

https://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/file/n13165/DSC_7749_Poughkeepsie.jpg

And here I am further to the left on that route up the middle. I did not make it up here.

https://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/file/n13104/DSC_7648_Poughkeepsie.jpg

I don't have many pictures of the bowl that's above The Wall, but here's one from 2000:

and another from 2018:

https://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/file/n13104/DSC_7657_Poughkeepsie.jpg

Those don't give you much to go on, but it's all I've got.

[Gary Lewis]

.... As for The Wall itself, it is one of those "I've got it, I've got it, I ain't got it" things. I understand your words now, but when I'm there looking at it I'll probably have to re-read and re-think things. But let me get back to that in a day or two and I'll ask more questions....

Here are some pictures to help fit it all together.

First is the "easy" part of the trail coming up before The Wall. It looks flat and level in the foreground. But if you look at the background you get an idea of how steep it is! This is hard to walk on. Trucks have an easier time than pedestrians, but it is spooky hearing the rocks roll out from under your tires if you're not used to it.

Here's a picture of The Wall from 2000. It doesn't look a lot like this anymore, but it might help visualize where the different routes are. Just looking above the little road that's above the grass and rock just above my old Jeep, the route to the right is the "right side" that was the easiest in 2018. The route in the center of the picture was a lot harder.

I posted this picture before It shows my Bronco in 2018 on "the left side of the right side". This is probably the most doable route (it's the only place I was successful in 2018), although it might require winching.

https://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/file/n13104/DSC_7643_Poughkeepsie.jpg

I posted this next picture before too. It shows someone on the route that's in the middle of the 2000 picture (see what I mean about it being harder in 2018?).

https://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/file/n13165/DSC_7749_Poughkeepsie.jpg

And here I am further to the left on that route up the middle. I did not make it up here.

https://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/file/n13104/DSC_7648_Poughkeepsie.jpg

I don't have many pictures of the bowl that's above The Wall, but here's one from 2000:

and another from 2018:

https://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/file/n13104/DSC_7657_Poughkeepsie.jpg

Those don't give you much to go on, but it's all I've got.

Chris - Those clips are cute! I've seen them 13 times, by actual count, as my grandson and I've watched Cars that many times. And the minivans are a neat part of it. I love the conversation between them.

But Janey doesn't get to go. She has sjogren's syndrome and cannot be in the sun for any length of time, and obviously on top of a mountain is one of the worst places to be. The trip was already planned when she learned that, so I invited my brother.

And we will be careful. And we'll have fun. In that order. One of the reasons my brother agreed to go is that he knows I'm going to be cautious - always have been more cautious than he. His sons have serious RZR's and are into "let's see if we can get this thing to go straight up" and my brother isn't into that. He just wants to go and have a good time, safely.

Bob - The pics really help. Thanks!

I've seen a youtube of people going up that "easy part of the trail coming up before The Wall", one of which was on a motorcycle. He fell several times and then finally turned around and went back down. So I have some idea of how steep it is and how loose the rocks are. And hearing the rocks come out from under your tires is unnerving. I heard the shale do that on Ophir Pass, but it wasn't that steep, although it was a shelf road so...

On The Wall itself, I think I like the "left side of the right side". I don't like the idea of having rocks to slide into backwards or tip into with the side of the truck. I'd rather a clear shot, and don't mind winching. But the approach angle looks steep, so I'm thinking I will drag the trailer hitch.

And the bowl doesn't look that bad. Again, it is hard to know how steep it is in the pictures, but the 2000 pic does show it. And that's the way we'll be coming down to scope out The Wall on Day 2, if we do that.

Thanks again as this has helped immensely. I need to get another round of maps together, send them to my brother, and then have a discussion with him about them. He'd already agreed with the previous approach, but I really think substituting Imogene for Last Dollar will make a huge difference and get us into 'wheeling.

[Gary Lewis]

Chris - Those clips are cute! I've seen them 13 times, by actual count, as my grandson and I've watched Cars that many times. And the minivans are a neat part of it. I love the conversation between them.

But Janey doesn't get to go. She has sjogren's syndrome and cannot be in the sun for any length of time, and obviously on top of a mountain is one of the worst places to be. The trip was already planned when she learned that, so I invited my brother.

And we will be careful. And we'll have fun. In that order. One of the reasons my brother agreed to go is that he knows I'm going to be cautious - always have been more cautious than he. His sons have serious RZR's and are into "let's see if we can get this thing to go straight up" and my brother isn't into that. He just wants to go and have a good time, safely.

Bob - The pics really help. Thanks!

I've seen a youtube of people going up that "easy part of the trail coming up before The Wall", one of which was on a motorcycle. He fell several times and then finally turned around and went back down. So I have some idea of how steep it is and how loose the rocks are. And hearing the rocks come out from under your tires is unnerving. I heard the shale do that on Ophir Pass, but it wasn't that steep, although it was a shelf road so...

On The Wall itself, I think I like the "left side of the right side". I don't like the idea of having rocks to slide into backwards or tip into with the side of the truck. I'd rather a clear shot, and don't mind winching. But the approach angle looks steep, so I'm thinking I will drag the trailer hitch.

And the bowl doesn't look that bad. Again, it is hard to know how steep it is in the pictures, but the 2000 pic does show it. And that's the way we'll be coming down to scope out The Wall on Day 2, if we do that.

Thanks again as this has helped immensely. I need to get another round of maps together, send them to my brother, and then have a discussion with him about them. He'd already agreed with the previous approach, but I really think substituting Imogene for Last Dollar will make a huge difference and get us into 'wheeling.

Ok, let me try this as a potential complete package. Comments, PLEASE!

Day 1: Ophir Pass to Telluride and then Imogene Pass back to Ouray. It is 56 miles, but is pretty easy for the first half as Ophir isn't challenging. However, Imogene appears to have some sections that will cause us to learn and get accustomed to the truck and how it handles the trails.

Day 2: Engineer Mountain Road, Mineral Point, Engineer Pass, Animas Cutoff, California Gulch, sneak peek @ The Wall, and Corkscrew back to 550. At 46 miles it might be a full day?

Day 3: Poughkeepsie Gulch, The Wall, then Corkscrew back to 550. At only 25 miles it might be a short day, but there are plenty of side trails available. And we might be at The Wall for a while.

Day 4: Black Bear to Telluride and then Imogene back to Ouray. Certainly not going to push for going on Black Bear at all, much less down the switchbacks, but my understanding is that we can turn around before committing to them, right? But that there is a significant hike to see them, and of course that's at 10,000 feet. But if we get there and don't want to do it we can backtrack and go into Silverton for a change.

[Gary Lewis]

Ok, let me try this as a potential complete package. Comments, PLEASE!

Day 1: Ophir Pass to Telluride and then Imogene Pass back to Ouray. It is 56 miles, but is pretty easy for the first half as Ophir isn't challenging. However, Imogene appears to have some sections that will cause us to learn and get accustomed to the truck and how it handles the trails.

Day 2: Engineer Mountain Road, Mineral Point, Engineer Pass, Animas Cutoff, California Gulch, sneak peek @ The Wall, and Corkscrew back to 550. At 46 miles it might be a full day?

Day 3: Poughkeepsie Gulch, The Wall, then Corkscrew back to 550. At only 25 miles it might be a short day, but there are plenty of side trails available. And we might be at The Wall for a while.

Day 4: Black Bear to Telluride and then Imogene back to Ouray. Certainly not going to push for going on Black Bear at all, much less down the switchbacks, but my understanding is that we can turn around before committing to them, right? But that there is a significant hike to see them, and of course that's at 10,000 feet. But if we get there and don't want to do it we can backtrack and go into Silverton for a change.

Oh yes, what is the recommended footwear? I'm thinking boots, or at least heavy duty shoes?

Obviously we'll take rain gear and jackets. But is there anything else recommended?

[Nothing Special]

Ok, let me try this as a potential complete package. Comments, PLEASE!

Day 1: Ophir Pass to Telluride and then Imogene Pass back to Ouray. It is 56 miles, but is pretty easy for the first half as Ophir isn't challenging. However, Imogene appears to have some sections that will cause us to learn and get accustomed to the truck and how it handles the trails.

Sounds like a good first day. You might want to take a little time in Telluride. We've never done more than eat our picnic lunch in a park, but it seems like a cute tourist town that probably deserves more time than we've given it.

Day 2: Engineer Mountain Road, Mineral Point, Engineer Pass, Animas Cutoff, California Gulch, sneak peek @ The Wall, and Corkscrew back to 550. At 46 miles it might be a full day?

Don't dawdle too much in the morning and you should be able to get back to Ouray for dinner without any trouble. And I think you'll really enjoy this day. Not that you won't the others, but this day should give you some interesting challenges and really give you some great scenery.

Day 3: Poughkeepsie Gulch, The Wall, then Corkscrew back to 550. At only 25 miles it might be a short day, but there are plenty of side trails available. And we might be at The Wall for a while.

I assume you're thinking about going in from Engineer Mountain Road and driving up Poughkeepsie Gulch? I hope this is a fun day for you. I'm not predicting that it won't be, but The Wall is going to be outside of your experiences so far. If you do it I think you'll feel (rightly) that you've really accomplished something. And you'll likely either be hooked on rockcrawling or ready to swear it off forever!

But I think this is a good length to plan for this day. You can always find ways to fill time if you need to. And you might be ready for an earlier end to the day too.

Day 4: Black Bear to Telluride and then Imogene back to Ouray. Certainly not going to push for going on Black Bear at all, much less down the switchbacks, but my understanding is that we can turn around before committing to them, right? But that there is a significant hike to see them, and of course that's at 10,000 feet. But if we get there and don't want to do it we can backtrack and go into Silverton for a change.

I'm not 100% sure where the trail becomes 1 way. There's a sign, so I think it's pretty clear, I just don't remember where it is. Assuming it's pretty close above Adios Curve, it's still about 0.4 miles to walk to the first/second switchback. It certainly isn't any less than that, but it could be more. According to the topo map I have in my GPS program it drops from about 11,200 feet elevation to about 10,800'. It's a pretty easy walk other than the distance and elevation loss/gain, but that "other than" makes it a pretty good hike, especially for flatlanders like us.

"The Steps" is the last section before Adios Curve. That will keep your attention too. It's not all that difficult, but it will test your articulation, which, if Big Blue is anything like my old '85 F-250HD, mostly comes from frame flex (your solid front axle will help there). But again, don't go anywhere you aren't comfortable with the idea of coming back up and you'll do fine.

The thought does occur to me that I've never thought about backtracking on Black Bear, and I've never encountered anyone going back on it. It's definitely allowed, but I can't think of how easy or difficult it might be to get by people. Maybe it's a piece of cake, maybe it's miserable, I really have no idea. Again, read it as you go.