Planning For Big Blue's Trip To Ouray

[85lebaront2]

Ok, talked to Bill. Having made ramps out of the slots the only choice to get the jet out is to remove the carb, wash it to make sure there's no gas ANYWHERE, heat the area right below the jet with a torch, and use a screw extractor to pull the jet.

However, Bill had a better idea: go with bigger metering rods! So I'm going to look at the Eddy chart and see if there's a combo there that will work. But, the Eddy chart is assuming you are using their rods, which are a subset of the Carter rods. So there are probably jet/rod combos that won't show on the chart, and that may be what I need.

Anyway, I'll be back...

Sometimes, even in the flatlands, you can't see the forest for the trees.

[Gary Lewis]

Sometimes, even in the flatlands, you can't see the forest for the trees.

Boy, ain't that the truth! Oops, wasn't supposed to post yet!

 

The spreadsheet below holds promise. The row in green looks like what I want, although the row above it would be better than what I'm running and I have those rods. Anyway, I'm going to go looking for the 16-237 Carter rod. Will be such an easy change - pull the air cleaner, loosen two screws, slide the tabs out of the way, and remove the rods and pistons. Change the rods and reverse the above procedure.

 

[Gary Lewis]

Sometimes, even in the flatlands, you can't see the forest for the trees.

Boy, ain't that the truth! Oops, wasn't supposed to post yet!

 

The spreadsheet below holds promise. The row in green looks like what I want, although the row above it would be better than what I'm running and I have those rods. Anyway, I'm going to go looking for the 16-237 Carter rod. Will be such an easy change - pull the air cleaner, loosen two screws, slide the tabs out of the way, and remove the rods and pistons. Change the rods and reverse the above procedure.

 

And, for the record, here's a chart I found on a Mopar site which shows the Carter rods and jets. This is a MUCH bigger set than Edelbrock is selling, which is why I couldn't use their calibration chart since it doesn't show combinations using these rods.

 

Bill says he has a number of rods and jets so will check to see what he has. Perhaps he has the ones I'm looking for. In any event, his idea of just changing the rods and not the jets will make things SO much easier! Thanks, Bill!!

 

EDIT: Mike's Carburetor Parts supplied this pdf, which is the same as the pic I shared, but MUCH better:

 

[Gary Lewis]

And, for the record, here's a chart I found on a Mopar site which shows the Carter rods and jets. This is a MUCH bigger set than Edelbrock is selling, which is why I couldn't use their calibration chart since it doesn't show combinations using these rods.

 

Bill says he has a number of rods and jets so will check to see what he has. Perhaps he has the ones I'm looking for. In any event, his idea of just changing the rods and not the jets will make things SO much easier! Thanks, Bill!!

 

EDIT: Mike's Carburetor Parts supplied this pdf, which is the same as the pic I shared, but MUCH better:

 

I put the carb back together, but not before checking the float levels. They were high by ~1/16" so I set them where they should be. And of course that leaned the AFR so I had to adjust the idle mix and idle stop, and it'll change things on the road as well so I'll have to check that out.And, just to document things, I'm running .110" primary jets, #1455 rods (.074 x .042), and the orange springs which allow the piston to come up at 5" of vacuum.Then I did some calling around looking for the .077 x .052 and .078 x .054 rods Tried Mike's and found the largest rod they have in stock is a .075", which isn't big enough. Called Allstate Carb and they have a pair of .076 x .052 in stock so I bought them as they are slightly better than the .076 x .054 rods I have on hand and should give proper AFR at 5700' for cruise and 7500' for power.Then I called The Carburetor Shop and talked to John. Or maybe I should say I listened to John. He's like Bill in several ways. First, they are the same age. Second, he's forgotten more about carbs than I'll ever know. Unfortunately he didn't have the rods I want, and while he could make them since he has Carter's original engineering drawings as well as their lab lathe, that would be a very expensive proposition and not worth doing for a 4-day stay in Colorado.According to John, Carter rods don't necessarily work in an Edeljunk (his term) as Carter had 19 different rod profiles, meaning where the step is and how long the ramp of the step is. That got me to wondering, and sure enough there is a difference. Here's a shot of a Carter 16-691 (.076 x .055) rod vs an Edelbrock 1455 (.073 x .042) rod. You can see that the step on the Carter starts a little bit farther down, meaning that the rod has to come out of the jet farther before enrichening the mix.Also, John suggested that I not change rods but instead lower the float levels 1/16". But that's not something I want to do as it is a lot more involved than swapping rods. And, there is a much higher chance of error when doing so - like what I did today when I got the fast idle linkage on wrong. :nabble_smiley_cry:So I'm going to limit it to swapping rods. And for those that don't know what that entails, once you pull the air cleaner you use a 1/4" socket to loosen the screw in the pic on the left, swivel the cover out of the way and the piston pops up. Pull the piston out, pull the spring down that is circled in red on the right, and pull the rod out. Put the new one in, and reverse the above procedure. Including removing and reinstalling the air cleaner it might take 5 minutes.

[85lebaront2]

I put the carb back together, but not before checking the float levels. They were high by ~1/16" so I set them where they should be. And of course that leaned the AFR so I had to adjust the idle mix and idle stop, and it'll change things on the road as well so I'll have to check that out.

And, just to document things, I'm running .110" primary jets, #1455 rods (.074 x .042), and the orange springs which allow the piston to come up at 5" of vacuum.

Then I did some calling around looking for the .077 x .052 and .078 x .054 rods Tried Mike's and found the largest rod they have in stock is a .075", which isn't big enough. Called Allstate Carb and they have a pair of .076 x .052 in stock so I bought them as they are slightly better than the .076 x .054 rods I have on hand and should give proper AFR at 5700' for cruise and 7500' for power.

Then I called The Carburetor Shop and talked to John. Or maybe I should say I listened to John. He's like Bill in several ways. First, they are the same age. Second, he's forgotten more about carbs than I'll ever know. Unfortunately he didn't have the rods I want, and while he could make them since he has Carter's original engineering drawings as well as their lab lathe, that would be a very expensive proposition and not worth doing for a 4-day stay in Colorado.

According to John, Carter rods don't necessarily work in an Edeljunk (his term) as Carter had 19 different rod profiles, meaning where the step is and how long the ramp of the step is. That got me to wondering, and sure enough there is a difference. Here's a shot of a Carter 16-691 (.076 x .055) rod vs an Edelbrock 1455 (.073 x .042) rod. You can see that the step on the Carter starts a little bit farther down, meaning that the rod has to come out of the jet farther before enrichening the mix.

Also, John suggested that I not change rods but instead lower the float levels 1/16". But that's not something I want to do as it is a lot more involved than swapping rods. And, there is a much higher chance of error when doing so - like what I did today when I got the fast idle linkage on wrong.

So I'm going to limit it to swapping rods. And for those that don't know what that entails, once you pull the air cleaner you use a 1/4" socket to loosen the screw in the pic on the left, swivel the cover out of the way and the piston pops up. Pull the piston out, pull the spring down that is circled in red on the right, and pull the rod out. Put the new one in, and reverse the above procedure. Including removing and reinstalling the air cleaner it might take 5 minutes.

Now you understand why I suggested that. FWIW, lowering the float levels can give you hesitation as the throttles open far enough to transition to the main jets. If they wanted to make changing the float level easy then it would be externally adjustable like the ones you hate.

If you think some of the US carbs are strange, sometime you need to find a Solex 4A1, a shining example of what happens when Germans try to "improve" on an American design. Take everything bad about a Quadrajet and then modify the good points till they are bad.

[Gary Lewis]

Now you understand why I suggested that. FWIW, lowering the float levels can give you hesitation as the throttles open far enough to transition to the main jets. If they wanted to make changing the float level easy then it would be externally adjustable like the ones you hate.

If you think some of the US carbs are strange, sometime you need to find a Solex 4A1, a shining example of what happens when Germans try to "improve" on an American design. Take everything bad about a Quadrajet and then modify the good points till they are bad.

I knew how easy it is to swap rods, but never realized that there are rods big enough to tame those .110 main jets for high altitudes.

Had a thought - how 'bout tinning the rods? How much might that add to the diameter? I do have multiples of some of the smaller rods so could experiment.

Bad parts of the QJet? Like the leaky well plugs?

Speaking of QJets, John and I talked about them and TQuads. He is a real fan of both. But mainly he likes the Carter Competition Series carbs. Had a high perf 390 in a '68 F100 and put two of them on with a non-progressive linkage. But he took the innards from a Carter made for a Mercury and put it in these carbs. Said you could stomp it in any gear but 4th and it wouldn't bog, and you couldn't feel the secondaries open. (He sure reminded me of someone else that is now 75, had a high perf 390, etc, etc, etc.)

[Gary Lewis]

I knew how easy it is to swap rods, but never realized that there are rods big enough to tame those .110 main jets for high altitudes.

Had a thought - how 'bout tinning the rods? How much might that add to the diameter? I do have multiples of some of the smaller rods so could experiment.

Bad parts of the QJet? Like the leaky well plugs?

Speaking of QJets, John and I talked about them and TQuads. He is a real fan of both. But mainly he likes the Carter Competition Series carbs. Had a high perf 390 in a '68 F100 and put two of them on with a non-progressive linkage. But he took the innards from a Carter made for a Mercury and put it in these carbs. Said you could stomp it in any gear but 4th and it wouldn't bog, and you couldn't feel the secondaries open. (He sure reminded me of someone else that is now 75, had a high perf 390, etc, etc, etc.)

Still doing some packing for the trip. I added my DVM/tach/dwell meter to the toolbox to aid in setting the idle mix and speed. And, it will come in handy if we run into any electrical problems. Was going to put in a vacuum gauge, but I have the one that David gave me on the steering column, so no need for another one.

As for the carb work, I'll need either that 1/4" socket or a T-15 Torx bit for the metering rod cover, so I was trying to figure out how to handle that when it hit me that I have a Ryobi set of 1/4" drive bits that seem to cover most applications I might ever come across. But I was struggling to find a magnetic driver for them until I remembered a set that I used to have, and while the bits are long gone I still have the handle and the case.

So I worked through what bits are in the Ryobi set, which has multiples of everything, and pulled out the ones shown below:

• T-6 through T-40

• 1/16" through 9/32

• SQ1 through 3

• PH0 through 3

• Cabinet 4 through 12

Here they are in the box, and some of you might recognize the Brownell's driver. And on the right is where I'm thinking I'll cut a piece out of the Ryobi kit and put it in the box. And that will include those sockets from 1/4" to 1/2".

Anyone with a better idea?

[Gary Lewis]

Still doing some packing for the trip. I added my DVM/tach/dwell meter to the toolbox to aid in setting the idle mix and speed. And, it will come in handy if we run into any electrical problems. Was going to put in a vacuum gauge, but I have the one that David gave me on the steering column, so no need for another one.

As for the carb work, I'll need either that 1/4" socket or a T-15 Torx bit for the metering rod cover, so I was trying to figure out how to handle that when it hit me that I have a Ryobi set of 1/4" drive bits that seem to cover most applications I might ever come across. But I was struggling to find a magnetic driver for them until I remembered a set that I used to have, and while the bits are long gone I still have the handle and the case.

So I worked through what bits are in the Ryobi set, which has multiples of everything, and pulled out the ones shown below:

• T-6 through T-40

• 1/16" through 9/32

• SQ1 through 3

• PH0 through 3

• Cabinet 4 through 12

Here they are in the box, and some of you might recognize the Brownell's driver. And on the right is where I'm thinking I'll cut a piece out of the Ryobi kit and put it in the box. And that will include those sockets from 1/4" to 1/2".

Anyone with a better idea?

Today I ordered the Coyote deflators: CED456, SET OF FOUR COYOTE AUTOMATIC TIRE DEFLATORS – RANGE 1 to 65 PSI. On Amazon it doesn't show a price and when you click "Show All Vendors" it says $144. So I searched for them and on the Coyote site it has them for $66.39 instead of $79.99 and shipping was only $4.75.

Not only that, these are the ones where you tell them what pressure you want them set to and they come that way from the factory. I asked for them to be set to 15 psi.

[Nothing Special]

Today I ordered the Coyote deflators: CED456, SET OF FOUR COYOTE AUTOMATIC TIRE DEFLATORS – RANGE 1 to 65 PSI. On Amazon it doesn't show a price and when you click "Show All Vendors" it says $144. So I searched for them and on the Coyote site it has them for $66.39 instead of $79.99 and shipping was only $4.75.

Not only that, these are the ones where you tell them what pressure you want them set to and they come that way from the factory. I asked for them to be set to 15 psi.

You'll like them!

And setting them yourself isn't hard, but it is a time consuming trial-and-error process. So if you decide you need to change them it won't be a big deal, but you saved yourself a bunch of time getting ready for this trip!

[Gary Lewis]

You'll like them!

And setting them yourself isn't hard, but it is a time consuming trial-and-error process. So if you decide you need to change them it won't be a big deal, but you saved yourself a bunch of time getting ready for this trip!

Thanks, Bob! I'm sure I'm going to like them. And I'm really pleased with the price.

Do you think 15 psi is a good starting point for the DISCOVERER S/T MAXX - LT285/75R16 tires? They are a Load Range E, so are pretty stiff in and of themselves.