Gary Lewis Posted May 18, 2021 Author Share Posted May 18, 2021 I think we need to think through this "literature" vs "manuals" thing. To me a manual is a piece of literature. Yes, brochures are literature and aren't manuals. But EVTM's and FSM can be considered literature. So manuals are a sub-set of literature. On that score, I've embedded below the spreadsheet from the page at Documentation/Literature that shows what literature I have and what is on the site. And it says we have "owner's guides", which is what Ford calls the owner's manuals. And we have EVTM's. And service guides. And engine & emission diagnosis manuals. And..... But currently we have the Literature section organized by year, which doesn't make much sense if you are looking for manuals. And while you can click on the Literature page and see that spreadsheet and then click on the On Site links to be taken to the document, you can also just over over Literature in the menu and see the years show up. And if you click on a year in the menu you'll be taken to a page with thumbnails of the documents, on which you can click to go to them. But, we could also categorize them by type, such as owner's manual; FSM; EVTM; etc. So, it could look like: Literature: Factory Shop Manuals Owner's Manuals Engine & Emission Diagnostic Manuals Brochures Etc Would that be better than sorting by year? I don't remember seeing the link to this page previously in this discussion, but I LIKE this layout. I can scroll through and see all the docs available from my 81. I have used this and referred others to it on FB. Randy - Glad it works for you. It has actually been there all along, but since when you hovered over the "Literature" menu item the sub-menu popped out you didn't know you had to click on the "Literature" menu item to get to it. But now that the sub-menu items are hidden you realize you have to click on it.It is kind of fiddly to maintain as when I add something to the site I have to remember to add it to the spreadsheet. But it works pretty nicely for the user as you can see everything in one go, whether by year or by topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted May 18, 2021 Author Share Posted May 18, 2021 Randy - Glad it works for you. It has actually been there all along, but since when you hovered over the "Literature" menu item the sub-menu popped out you didn't know you had to click on the "Literature" menu item to get to it. But now that the sub-menu items are hidden you realize you have to click on it. It is kind of fiddly to maintain as when I add something to the site I have to remember to add it to the spreadsheet. But it works pretty nicely for the user as you can see everything in one go, whether by year or by topic. Houston, we have a minor problem. Let me explain. Listing things in a table (spreadsheet) that way works nicely for things that are on one page. But it really doesn't work well for things that are on multiple pages, like the '85 FSM. I have put a link to the '85 FSM in the spreadsheet, but that just takes you to the index with its hyperlinks instead of getting you the fancy menu/sub-menu approach. So we need to think about this more. Perhaps it needs to look something like this in the menu: Literature & Manuals (non-clickable page, meaning there is nothing on it) Index EVTM's 1981 EVTM 1985 EVTM 1986 EVTM Factory Shop Manuals 1985 FSM Identification Codes Wheels & Tires etc Brochures 1980 Brochures & Advertisements Bronco Brochure etc 1981 Brochures & Advertisements etc Thoughts, please! This is a significant enough of a change that I don't want to undertake w/o lots of thinking and discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcarlisle Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 Houston, we have a minor problem. Let me explain. Listing things in a table (spreadsheet) that way works nicely for things that are on one page. But it really doesn't work well for things that are on multiple pages, like the '85 FSM. I have put a link to the '85 FSM in the spreadsheet, but that just takes you to the index with its hyperlinks instead of getting you the fancy menu/sub-menu approach. So we need to think about this more. Perhaps it needs to look something like this in the menu: Literature & Manuals (non-clickable page, meaning there is nothing on it) Index EVTM's 1981 EVTM 1985 EVTM 1986 EVTM Factory Shop Manuals 1985 FSM Identification Codes Wheels & Tires etc Brochures 1980 Brochures & Advertisements Bronco Brochure etc 1981 Brochures & Advertisements etc Thoughts, please! This is a significant enough of a change that I don't want to undertake w/o lots of thinking and discussion. Ok, for me, I'm not seeing the problem yet. I openend the Literature page in a new tab. Takes me to page with spreadsheet. From there I can click to next page, e.g. the 1985 EVTM page with headings to find what I need. Maybe I'm just used to it, but then it seems like I click where I need to and it goes. I guess I'm not the person to help with this. Sometimes, things seem a bit tough to find, but any website/forum can be that way. I'll follow along, but think I should probably just watch to see what changes. And this is working well on my desktop PC. I don't do well on my phone on here. HAven't tried it much on my 10" tablet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted May 18, 2021 Author Share Posted May 18, 2021 Ok, for me, I'm not seeing the problem yet. I openend the Literature page in a new tab. Takes me to page with spreadsheet. From there I can click to next page, e.g. the 1985 EVTM page with headings to find what I need. Maybe I'm just used to it, but then it seems like I click where I need to and it goes. I guess I'm not the person to help with this. Sometimes, things seem a bit tough to find, but any website/forum can be that way. I'll follow along, but think I should probably just watch to see what changes. And this is working well on my desktop PC. I don't do well on my phone on here. HAven't tried it much on my 10" tablet. Randy - Let me try to explain differently. I've changed things around a lot so you'll have to refresh your browser's page. Now the Literature & Manuals page is not clickable. There's nothing on it, so if you hover over it the sub-menus pop out. And there's now a page called Index & Contents that has the table. So if you go to that and click on the link to the 1985 FSM you'll be taken to the Contents page of that document. But, if you hover over Factory Shop Manuals and then 1985 Truck Shop Manual you'll see the popout sub-menu that shows the sections of the manual. In other words, there are two ways to get there, but to me it is cleaner to see the items in the menu. QUESTION, Y'ALL: What do you think of this new approach? Note that 1980 is the only year I've let you see the sub-menus with the literature under it, but I can do that with the others as well if we like this approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramttocs Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 Randy - Let me try to explain differently. I've changed things around a lot so you'll have to refresh your browser's page. Now the Literature & Manuals page is not clickable. There's nothing on it, so if you hover over it the sub-menus pop out. And there's now a page called Index & Contents that has the table. So if you go to that and click on the link to the 1985 FSM you'll be taken to the Contents page of that document. But, if you hover over Factory Shop Manuals and then 1985 Truck Shop Manual you'll see the popout sub-menu that shows the sections of the manual. In other words, there are two ways to get there, but to me it is cleaner to see the items in the menu. QUESTION, Y'ALL: What do you think of this new approach? Note that 1980 is the only year I've let you see the sub-menus with the literature under it, but I can do that with the others as well if we like this approach. This is a tough one. I like the "Literature & Manuals" label. I think this would be my preference: Literature & Manuals --1980 ----FSM -------Section A -------Section B ----EVTM -------Section A -------Section B ----Brochure 1 ----Brochure 2 ----etc --1981 ----FSM -------Section A -------Section B ----EVTM -------Section A -------Section B ----Brochure 1 ----Brochure 2 ----etc The part I don't care for is having child items that are separated by year like "1980 Literature" directly under that L&M menu but then have them also labeled with years under FSM like "1985 Shop Manual". If it's going to be split by years, which FSMs and EVTMs will be unless there is only ever one uploaded, I would have everything that can be placed under a year, done so. That just what works for me from an organization standpoint. The conflict with that is that I am always going to Electrical > EVTM and that makes sense to me but maybe the next person on the site would automatically go to L&M for the EVTM and never think to go to Electrical. So back to the wall, I'd vote to put any document that Ford put out with a single YEAR on it would go under L&M > YEAR as seen in the mockup above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted May 18, 2021 Author Share Posted May 18, 2021 This is a tough one. I like the "Literature & Manuals" label. I think this would be my preference: Literature & Manuals --1980 ----FSM -------Section A -------Section B ----EVTM -------Section A -------Section B ----Brochure 1 ----Brochure 2 ----etc --1981 ----FSM -------Section A -------Section B ----EVTM -------Section A -------Section B ----Brochure 1 ----Brochure 2 ----etc The part I don't care for is having child items that are separated by year like "1980 Literature" directly under that L&M menu but then have them also labeled with years under FSM like "1985 Shop Manual". If it's going to be split by years, which FSMs and EVTMs will be unless there is only ever one uploaded, I would have everything that can be placed under a year, done so. That just what works for me from an organization standpoint. The conflict with that is that I am always going to Electrical > EVTM and that makes sense to me but maybe the next person on the site would automatically go to L&M for the EVTM and never think to go to Electrical. So back to the wall, I'd vote to put any document that Ford put out with a single YEAR on it would go under L&M > YEAR as seen in the mockup above. Scott - What you say makes sense. The only concern I have is that people will know to look in 1985 for that FSM, or 1986 for that Engine/Emission Diagnosis manual. As for the EVTM, we wouldn't have to put it in Literature & Documents. Just leave it in Electrical. Or, we could put two of them in. Doesn't cost any more. Now, back to my work in a small area with little light and hot tools... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramttocs Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 Scott - What you say makes sense. The only concern I have is that people will know to look in 1985 for that FSM, or 1986 for that Engine/Emission Diagnosis manual. As for the EVTM, we wouldn't have to put it in Literature & Documents. Just leave it in Electrical. Or, we could put two of them in. Doesn't cost any more. Now, back to my work in a small area with little light and hot tools... Ugh on that work As a pleasant side effect of lining the work area/footwell with foil, it did help with the light some. I can get behind that concern. I would say though that if they have made it to the L&M section, seeing the years should be intuitive enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted May 18, 2021 Author Share Posted May 18, 2021 Ugh on that work As a pleasant side effect of lining the work area/footwell with foil, it did help with the light some. I can get behind that concern. I would say though that if they have made it to the L&M section, seeing the years should be intuitive enough. The small work area is all buttoned up. As for the manuals, the fact that it now says "& Manuals" should clue them in. And if they click on the Index page they'll be greeted with a by-year breakdown. Ok, I'm good with that. I'll do more editing in a bit and we'll see how we like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramttocs Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 The small work area is all buttoned up. As for the manuals, the fact that it now says "& Manuals" should clue them in. And if they click on the Index page they'll be greeted with a by-year breakdown. Ok, I'm good with that. I'll do more editing in a bit and we'll see how we like it. And hopefully this is the last time you have to work down there Looking forward to seeing how the menu looks real world and what the feedback is on it (keep or keep thinking). I'll admit that I am looking at it primarily from the organization standpoint when referring to the FSM. I like seeing the relevant sections of the FSM on various pages but if I am really trying to digest it, I am still the hardcopy kind. So take that into consideration on my input on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted May 18, 2021 Author Share Posted May 18, 2021 And hopefully this is the last time you have to work down there Looking forward to seeing how the menu looks real world and what the feedback is on it (keep or keep thinking). I'll admit that I am looking at it primarily from the organization standpoint when referring to the FSM. I like seeing the relevant sections of the FSM on various pages but if I am really trying to digest it, I am still the hardcopy kind. So take that into consideration on my input on this. Well, the small, dark workspace job is done. Anyway, go check out the menu under Literature & Manuals now. I think everything but the EVTM's is in there, and I'm not quite ready to do that yet as I'm still thinking about that. But I moved the Engine/Emissions Diagnosis manuals in there as well as the '85 FSM. And, I un-hid all of the many pages of documentation that were previously available only via the Index table or the annual pages that have icons that tie to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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