New Document Going On The Site - Engine & Emission Diagnosis

[rcarlisle]

Chris - The like button was obtrusive so we gave it up some time ago. As for you having bits of this in Photobucket, I'm willing to bet those were pictures. These are pdf's that have been OCR'd. (Chris knows, probably better than I, but for the rest of you that means these documents can be searched for specific text. Or the text can be copied and pasted, as I just did for Andre on the front hub info.)

Dane - I think Emissions is the right place. But I don't want the document to get lost there, so I'm liking Scott's idea about a master contents document.

Scott - I have a sheet-feed scanner and scan in gray scale at 600 dpi. I scanned those 354 pages in just about two hours yesterday, but more of the time was spent OCR'ing rather than scanning.

But that means I have to have individual sheets. I gave up trying to scan bound documents years ago as it was SLOW and gave poor results. (Having said that, I agreed yesterday to scan a bound '96 owners manual that Bill is sending.) Luckily this document is in a 3-ring binder so is easy to take apart. But I have cut up my '81 and '85 FSM's to scan the sections.

Which gets me to the question of placing whole FSM's, or other documents, on the site. Frankly, I'm afraid of getting sued due to copyright issues. There are companies that have paid Ford to create several of the documents in CD form, and if we have a way for someone to download a document for free then they might sue.

It has seemed safer to put sections of the FSM scattered across the site rather than to put the whole document in one place. (No, I'd not put one complete file on, but individual files for each section in the same fashion I've done for the '86 Engine & Emissions document.) Given that, I dunno.

I'd like everyone's thoughts, please.

Ford used to be one of the easiest to grant licenses. Being this is the "authority" site on this gen of trucks, would it be worth sending a letter to inquire about licenses to store docs on here? I really don't know if that is even practical. But if you were "authorized", that really increases your credibility. It's impossible to inquire about these trucks without a link to this site showing up, so it's possible that someone at Ford has already seen this site.

[85lebaront2]

Ford used to be one of the easiest to grant licenses. Being this is the "authority" site on this gen of trucks, would it be worth sending a letter to inquire about licenses to store docs on here? I really don't know if that is even practical. But if you were "authorized", that really increases your credibility. It's impossible to inquire about these trucks without a link to this site showing up, so it's possible that someone at Ford has already seen this site.

What I found when my site was up a number of years ago, as long as it isn't proprietary information or trade secrets and you properly cite the ownership of the information you are generally ok. I had a boilerplate copyright for each of GM, Ford and Chrysler stating the information was copyright xxx at the head of each piece of information.

A lot of what I had was Chrysler wiring (what a nightmare).

[ArdWrknTrk]

Ford used to be one of the easiest to grant licenses. Being this is the "authority" site on this gen of trucks, would it be worth sending a letter to inquire about licenses to store docs on here? I really don't know if that is even practical. But if you were "authorized", that really increases your credibility. It's impossible to inquire about these trucks without a link to this site showing up, so it's possible that someone at Ford has already seen this site.

Rule #1. Never attract attention.

Rule #2 It's easier to beg forgiveness than ask permission.

[Gary Lewis]

Rule #1. Never attract attention.

Rule #2 It's easier to beg forgiveness than ask permission.

Randy - I agree with Jim. I'd much rather ask for forgiveness than ask for dispensation and be told no.

Bill - That's good to know. On the documents I've posted I've not taken any copyright info off. But looking at the new emissions document it appears that the only part that bears the copyright info is the first few pages. So to do that I'd need to add that in the footer of each page.

Jim - As said, I agree. Which is one of the reasons I've not put major documents out in their entirety. If what others are selling, like the shop manual, is spread all over creation then it doesn't look like you are making available their livelyhood.

But, speaking of "making available", this Wikipedia article has a lot to say on that subject. And to help you find what I think is meaningful in this situation you need to go down about 2/3 of the way to a section that starts with:

Primary infringement liability

The fundamental question, "what use can a P2P file-sharing network's customers make of the software and of copyrighted materials without violating copyright law", has no answer at this time, as there has been almost no dispositive decision-making on the subject.

In that section you'll find a summary of several court cases where the RIAA took on people who both posted copyrighted material on the internet and those who downloaded it. And from what I can tell the courts have determined that making the material available is not illegal. It is the downloading thereof that is illegal.

I'd appreciate it if several of you would read that article and then post your understandings.

Also, there's a mention of the Electronic Freedom Foundation. They apparently were founded because of issues like this. But I can't find an answer to our fundamental question on their site, so have sent them an email asking for clarification.

Last, my son is a lawyer and I've asked him his opinion on this.

[ctubutis]

Rule #1. Never attract attention.

Rule #2 It's easier to beg forgiveness than ask permission.

My personal suspicion is that Ford already knows of you.

What I know from FTE is that, in general, Ford is supportive of enthusiast sites.

I would never try and re-publish a full volume of printed text onto the web, only bits & pieces. There is something called Fair Use that gets you allows you certain rights, up to a point.

My opinion. :)

[Gary Lewis]

My personal suspicion is that Ford already knows of you.

What I know from FTE is that, in general, Ford is supportive of enthusiast sites.

I would never try and re-publish a full volume of printed text onto the web, only bits & pieces. There is something called Fair Use that gets you allows you certain rights, up to a point.

My opinion. :)

Chris - I wouldn't be surprised that Ford knows about us. And it only makes sense that they would encourage sites like ours since they help enthusiasts keep their products running. So it isn't Ford that might call "foul". It would be someone who is selling the documents with a license from Ford.

As for the whole document vs bits and pieces, since our intent is to provide people with a place to read the documentation online rather than to download it, it only makes sense to put it out in sizes that can be pulled up in short order. But the portion I've scanned in so far of the emissions document, which I'm guessing is about 1/3 of it, are 180 MB in size. So the whole document is likely to be over 500 MB in size if it were in one file, and people would give up before it loaded. And then finding what they want in the document would be difficult.

Considering "fair use", the page at More Information on Fair Use is helpful. And reading that tells me that since we don't profit from the publication we have a leg up. And, not publishing the whole of the document is also helpful.

So I'm feeling better and better about this. But do want to hear from the Electronic Freedom Foundation and, for reference, here's the note I sent to them:

I run a website for 1980 - 86 Ford pickup enthusiasts called garysgaragemahal, aka the Bullnose Forum. On that site I've put many Ford documents regarding those trucks in an effort to provide documentation to others that share my appreciation for these trucks. However the intention is not to distribute the documents but to make them available to view. Having said that, it is possible to download them if you know what you are doing.

No one has challenged what I'm doing in the several years the site has been up, but I do wonder what the legalities are of doing so. Having read the Wikipedia article about file sharing I found out about the EFF and perused your site thinking you'd have a ready answer to the question. However, I've not found it even though it is surely there, somewhere.

Can you direct me to something that answers the question? Or, can you provide some guidance?

[ArdWrknTrk]

My personal suspicion is that Ford already knows of you.

What I know from FTE is that, in general, Ford is supportive of enthusiast sites.

I would never try and re-publish a full volume of printed text onto the web, only bits & pieces. There is something called Fair Use that gets you allows you certain rights, up to a point.

My opinion. :)

Ford definitely has their ear to the ground, Chris.

I said a few weeks ago, with regard to my tailgate stickers, that it's a game of whack-a-mole on eBay.

The listing I bought from was down a day or two after I bought them, and I couldn't even leave feedback.

That's why I said that these people with a vinyl cutter only have to sell DORF tailgate stickers in order to stay clear of Ford's IP.

The Blue Oval and distinctive script is another case entirely.

I think The Motor Company is going after that in all cases. (as is their right)

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

 

[85lebaront2]

Ford definitely has their ear to the ground, Chris.

I said a few weeks ago, with regard to my tailgate stickers, that it's a game of whack-a-mole on eBay.

The listing I bought from was down a day or two after I bought them, and I couldn't even leave feedback.

That's why I said that these people with a vinyl cutter only have to sell DORF tailgate stickers in order to stay clear of Ford's IP.

The Blue Oval and distinctive script is another case entirely.

I think The Motor Company is going after that in all cases. (as is their right)

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

They made RJM take down the fuel injection site. It was originally "Ford Fuel Injection.com" it was changed to "Old Fuel Injection.com" and it was still taken down.

[ArdWrknTrk]

They made RJM take down the fuel injection site. It was originally "Ford Fuel Injection.com" it was changed to "Old Fuel Injection.com" and it was still taken down.

I thought that was when Ryan just dropped off the face of the earth....?

It really is a shame when a giant corporation is SO concerned about 30 (or more!) year old documentation.

I guess they figure if you are fixing your own vehicle they are missing a new sale and their dealer network is missing out on service hours?

[Gary Lewis]

I thought that was when Ryan just dropped off the face of the earth....?

It really is a shame when a giant corporation is SO concerned about 30 (or more!) year old documentation.

I guess they figure if you are fixing your own vehicle they are missing a new sale and their dealer network is missing out on service hours?

I suspect there is more to the story than we know. Like using "Ford" in a way they didn't like.

Anyway, we will have to be careful.