F350 Gearing choices...

[Gary Lewis]

Gary,

Don’t sweat the weight details. I’m just trying to get a ballpark idea if the start out gear will work for me. I don’t know that even a thousand pounds one way or the other will make or break it. No matter what I do it is going to be apples to oranges anyway. I’m just going to have to pick a combination and run with it. I just wish it wasn’t such an ordeal to change later on with respect to driveshaft length or putting rebuild money into the wrong transmission 🙄

I'm happy with the T-19's 2nd gear starts, and am sure I'll also be with the ZF5. As said, even the 351M pulled 2nd gear starts just fine with the ZF5 and 3.50's, although it was a lighter truck and had smaller 30" tires.

[Gary Lewis]

I'm headed out, but the tires are LT285/75R16. Don't know the diameter. And the 1983 facts book says an F250 4x4 starts at 3994 lbs. They you add a 460, A/C, the huge tires, dual batteries, tool box, etc. Some have said 6500 but I'm not sure it'll go that much.

I was wrong! The 1983 facts book says a regular cab long bed F250 HD 4x4 starts at 4372 lbs, which is about 400 lbs heavier. And it shows a DRW to be 297 lbs heavier than a SRW. And a crew cab is 482 heavier than a regular cab. Plus, an F350 is 100 lbs heavier than a HD F250.

So, if I take Darth's 6400 lbs and subtract 100 for the F250, 297 for the SRW, and 482 for a regular cab then Big Blue should weight 5521 lbs - without the big tires, big bumper, toolbox and its significant contents, extra battery, and winch. I know Darth's tires are big, but these are HEAVY! And the bumper is 1/4" plate. Plus the toolbox has a full toolbox of hand tools, chain, ratchet straps, chocks, tree saver strap, 3 boomers, snatch block, hooks, bottle jack, 4-way, jumper cables, the winch 10' 2/0 jumper, and chain links.

So, I'm going to guess that Big Blue would come in a bit above 6000 lbs.

[FuzzFace2]

I'm headed out, but the tires are LT285/75R16. Don't know the diameter. And the 1983 facts book says an F250 4x4 starts at 3994 lbs. They you add a 460, A/C, the huge tires, dual batteries, tool box, etc. Some have said 6500 but I'm not sure it'll go that much.

I was wrong! The 1983 facts book says a regular cab long bed F250 HD 4x4 starts at 4372 lbs, which is about 400 lbs heavier. And it shows a DRW to be 297 lbs heavier than a SRW. And a crew cab is 482 heavier than a regular cab. Plus, an F350 is 100 lbs heavier than a HD F250.

So, if I take Darth's 6400 lbs and subtract 100 for the F250, 297 for the SRW, and 482 for a regular cab then Big Blue should weight 5521 lbs - without the big tires, big bumper, toolbox and its significant contents, extra battery, and winch. I know Darth's tires are big, but these are HEAVY! And the bumper is 1/4" plate. Plus the toolbox has a full toolbox of hand tools, chain, ratchet straps, chocks, tree saver strap, 3 boomers, snatch block, hooks, bottle jack, 4-way, jumper cables, the winch 10' 2/0 jumper, and chain links.

So, I'm going to guess that Big Blue would come in a bit above 6000 lbs.

I know the whole thing is to use OD in 4x4 or a way to lock OD out when in 4x4.

I have not seen it posted of the Ranger Torque Splitter

http://www.advanceadapters.com/categories/ranger-torque-splitter/236/

Being it goes between the motor & trany it can be used in 4x4 but you do end up with a second shift lever. Now can it be made to shift with a push / pull solenoid type deal?

Dave ----

[Ford F834]

I know the whole thing is to use OD in 4x4 or a way to lock OD out when in 4x4.

I have not seen it posted of the Ranger Torque Splitter

http://www.advanceadapters.com/categories/ranger-torque-splitter/236/

Being it goes between the motor & trany it can be used in 4x4 but you do end up with a second shift lever. Now can it be made to shift with a push / pull solenoid type deal?

Dave ----

Dave, I would LOVE to use a Ranger splitter. I would prefer a a second lever and mechanical shift over motors and solenoids. The thing that kills it for me is that it only works with 4 speed gear boxes. I like the T19 enough that I would even entertain the Ranger, T19, and 3.55’s to put me where I want to be... but sadly the input shaft diameter is a liability at my power level and there is no 13” clutch disc for that shaft size. My clutch disc is already a special deal with a smaller hub that fits the ZF-5. In all honesty I should be stepping up to the beefier ZF-6, but I’ve not heard good things about them.

[Ford F834]

I'm headed out, but the tires are LT285/75R16. Don't know the diameter. And the 1983 facts book says an F250 4x4 starts at 3994 lbs. They you add a 460, A/C, the huge tires, dual batteries, tool box, etc. Some have said 6500 but I'm not sure it'll go that much.

I was wrong! The 1983 facts book says a regular cab long bed F250 HD 4x4 starts at 4372 lbs, which is about 400 lbs heavier. And it shows a DRW to be 297 lbs heavier than a SRW. And a crew cab is 482 heavier than a regular cab. Plus, an F350 is 100 lbs heavier than a HD F250.

So, if I take Darth's 6400 lbs and subtract 100 for the F250, 297 for the SRW, and 482 for a regular cab then Big Blue should weight 5521 lbs - without the big tires, big bumper, toolbox and its significant contents, extra battery, and winch. I know Darth's tires are big, but these are HEAVY! And the bumper is 1/4" plate. Plus the toolbox has a full toolbox of hand tools, chain, ratchet straps, chocks, tree saver strap, 3 boomers, snatch block, hooks, bottle jack, 4-way, jumper cables, the winch 10' 2/0 jumper, and chain links.

So, I'm going to guess that Big Blue would come in a bit above 6000 lbs.

Gary, for argument sake we will say I am 1,000 lbs heavier +/- so around 17% more weight to get rolling. Even with 18:1 decompression I don’t think my off-idle torque would be too much different than a 460?

[Gary Lewis]

Gary, for argument sake we will say I am 1,000 lbs heavier +/- so around 17% more weight to get rolling. Even with 18:1 decompression I don’t think my off-idle torque would be too much different than a 460?

I doubt you'll be 1000 lbs heavier. What will you have beyond a crew cab (+482 less the frame you cut off) and the diesel's weight that Big Blue doesn't have? Your tires will be lighter. Will you have a winch and winch bumper? What about the heavy step/slider bars? Tool box and lots of tools?

So I can't see you at more than 500 lbs more. And with smaller tires comes more torque. So I'm thinking it'll be a wash.

Oh, by the way, I am supposed to have a 12" clutch. And you'll have a 13.

[Ford F834]

I doubt you'll be 1000 lbs heavier. What will you have beyond a crew cab (+482 less the frame you cut off) and the diesel's weight that Big Blue doesn't have? Your tires will be lighter. Will you have a winch and winch bumper? What about the heavy step/slider bars? Tool box and lots of tools?

So I can't see you at more than 500 lbs more. And with smaller tires comes more torque. So I'm thinking it'll be a wash.

Oh, by the way, I am supposed to have a 12" clutch. And you'll have a 13.

Gary, I hope you are right. I am wanting to keep this truck as reasonably light as possible. My estimation is from reported curb weights of similar trucks discussed on the diesel forums. I don’t hold a lot of stock in the tare weight calibration of weigh scales at a dump or transfer station, but that is what I have to go by. Most crew cab 4x4 diesels come in at the mid 7,000’s. The lightest similar truck is Justin Anderson’s Supercab with D60 SAS, ZF-5, DNE2, turbo gear and Bronco fuel cell. It weighed 6,950 I believe. Mine will have a bit more cab but about the same length. The IDI engine itself I think is 960 lbs bare, and about 1,200 fully dressed with manifolds, brackets, accessories and fluids. Add maybe another 100 or so lbs for all the turbo gear. I am very curious now... I wonder if my old set up was only an 11” clutch... it is kind of buried in storage but may be an important piece of information regarding my prior experience.

[FuzzFace2]

Dave, I would LOVE to use a Ranger splitter. I would prefer a a second lever and mechanical shift over motors and solenoids. The thing that kills it for me is that it only works with 4 speed gear boxes. I like the T19 enough that I would even entertain the Ranger, T19, and 3.55’s to put me where I want to be... but sadly the input shaft diameter is a liability at my power level and there is no 13” clutch disc for that shaft size. My clutch disc is already a special deal with a smaller hub that fits the ZF-5. In all honesty I should be stepping up to the beefier ZF-6, but I’ve not heard good things about them.

Ok got it.

Well if anyone is looking up this information the Ranger link is in here too.

I do have a question on the GV OD unit.

Do you know why they don't want it going into OD below 25/30 MPH?

So if you had a T18 you could not split 1st gear, granny 1st to 1st OD then to 2nd direct, if I under stand right.

Thanks

Dave ----

[Ford F834]

Dave, I would LOVE to use a Ranger splitter. I would prefer a a second lever and mechanical shift over motors and solenoids. The thing that kills it for me is that it only works with 4 speed gear boxes. I like the T19 enough that I would even entertain the Ranger, T19, and 3.55’s to put me where I want to be... but sadly the input shaft diameter is a liability at my power level and there is no 13” clutch disc for that shaft size. My clutch disc is already a special deal with a smaller hub that fits the ZF-5. In all honesty I should be stepping up to the beefier ZF-6, but I’ve not heard good things about them.

Ok got it.

Well if anyone is looking up this information the Ranger link is in here too.

I do have a question on the GV OD unit.

Do you know why they don't want it going into OD below 25/30 MPH?

So if you had a T18 you could not split 1st gear, granny 1st to 1st OD then to 2nd direct, if I under stand right.

Thanks

Dave ----

Dave, what the Gear Vendors rep told me is that the force on the clutch is too great at low speeds and deep gear ratios. I have heard of people running the units without a controller, and simply energizing the shift solenoid with a toggle. My understanding is that when this is done, the clutch can be engaged while the vehicle is stopped and will in fact result in 1st over, 2nd over etc., but just because it will do it does not mean it’s a good idea. I have also read online that an internal pump provides hydraulic pressure to hold the clutch engaged, and below that speed the pump pressure is insufficient. Granted a lighter vehicle with less torque could probably get away with less pressure, but I would not think that starting out from a dead stop would do that clutch any favors at all. If you want to split all gears I think you will need a direct gear drive unit such as the Ranger or a DNE/US-Gear unit. Both would take some practice or getting used to if you needed to use it as part of your usual shift sequence. My idea with the DNE2 would be to use it in a way that it would stay in high range for empty driving and highway use, and low range for hauling or backroad driving.

I mentioned earlier about engine braking being hard on the GVOD. This is only while the OD is engaged. If you need to engine brake, put it in direct drive and it will be fine.

I do appreciate the link to the Ranger boxes, I was actually reading about them not long before your post and was thinking of adding the link it case it could help someone else. I even saw that some ranger boxes are being fitted with the same shift motors as thevDNE and two speed axles if one wanted a splitter but not a second lever.

[FuzzFace2]

Dave, what the Gear Vendors rep told me is that the force on the clutch is too great at low speeds and deep gear ratios. I have heard of people running the units without a controller, and simply energizing the shift solenoid with a toggle. My understanding is that when this is done, the clutch can be engaged while the vehicle is stopped and will in fact result in 1st over, 2nd over etc., but just because it will do it does not mean it’s a good idea. I have also read online that an internal pump provides hydraulic pressure to hold the clutch engaged, and below that speed the pump pressure is insufficient. Granted a lighter vehicle with less torque could probably get away with less pressure, but I would not think that starting out from a dead stop would do that clutch any favors at all. If you want to split all gears I think you will need a direct gear drive unit such as the Ranger or a DNE/US-Gear unit. Both would take some practice or getting used to if you needed to use it as part of your usual shift sequence. My idea with the DNE2 would be to use it in a way that it would stay in high range for empty driving and highway use, and low range for hauling or backroad driving.

I mentioned earlier about engine braking being hard on the GVOD. This is only while the OD is engaged. If you need to engine brake, put it in direct drive and it will be fine.

I do appreciate the link to the Ranger boxes, I was actually reading about them not long before your post and was thinking of adding the link it case it could help someone else. I even saw that some ranger boxes are being fitted with the same shift motors as thevDNE and two speed axles if one wanted a splitter but not a second lever.

Ok I under stand on the pump as it must be driven inside off the input shaft.

If I did go with GV OD I would not be starting off in 1st OD but shifting to it once moving then to 2nd.

I would run a 2sp rear button/knob on the side of the stock shifter like they do on 2sp rear trucks.

I drove one and it was easy to use.

As for splitting all the gears going up or down I don't think it would be worth it as some of the ratios would be so close why bother? It would be one of them things once driving and tested you would know if you wanted to split or not.

Then again if GV said not good when down shifting might have to rethink this.

The only thing I did not like with the Ranger unit was needing to cut the stock trany front bearing retainer and then not being able to go back stock with out needing to find another.

I also did not like the 2nd shifter handle, had one in a Toyota LC and was a pain if you wanted to split gears.

Now if you can fit it with an electric type motor that was fast enough, and used the 2sp knob might be a way to go?

Thanks for the information.

Dave ----