Gary Lewis Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 Note that the 2,000 rpm sweet spot with 3.55’s in 5th is right around 67mph..... ....I know that ideally one does not pull ZF’s for fun, but hypothetically if I did regear to 3.55 I could install the wide ratio ZF without rebuilding it. If I like it, then drop and rebuild. If not, then rebuild the close ratio and swap them. It would entail some extra work, but worst case I would end up with the close ZF/3.55 combo. To me, 67 MPH is a comfortable speed in these trucks, and I ran that speed pulling the boat to/from your neck of the woods a couple of years ago and never thought I was going to get run over on the interstate. And if your sweet spot with the new engine is a bit higher then 70 or 75 MPH is very reasonable with a bare ZF. So if you might be happy with a wide-ratio gear-set ZF, then I'd be tempted to give it a try. And then if you really think you need taller gears then put an OD behind either ZF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85lebaront2 Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 Wow! Interesting. For me, simplicity is becoming the norm. I would go with number 1, but if financially possible I would not sell the O/D units. Never know, might need them, or change your mind. As Lebaron said, I also have 3.55's, (always had trucks with 4.10's), the 3.55's are great, good acceleration (the 460 definitely helps!) and not too bad on the RPM's if you're not trying to keep up on a freeway. I have the C6. (So I'm the "old man" doing 60MPH!) You can go into 4 Low for backing and other situations. I appreciate your thoughts on the overdrives as I have thought it would be nice to have one. But well over 3 grand will buy a lot of gas! That was one of the reasons for wanting the E4OD. I used to have the 460 turning 2700 rpm towing at 55-60 mph with the C6, With the E4OD in 3rd I turn 2200 at 54 mph loaded, highway, 1500 rpm in 4th at 55 mph, around 1800 at 70 mph. Gas mileage varies from 10 to as high as 12.5 with a very low compression 460 and a truck that weighs 6400 lbs empty and is running 6 tires on the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 That was one of the reasons for wanting the E4OD. I used to have the 460 turning 2700 rpm towing at 55-60 mph with the C6, With the E4OD in 3rd I turn 2200 at 54 mph loaded, highway, 1500 rpm in 4th at 55 mph, around 1800 at 70 mph. Gas mileage varies from 10 to as high as 12.5 with a very low compression 460 and a truck that weighs 6400 lbs empty and is running 6 tires on the road. Big Blue is turning 2500 R's at 65 MPH, and has enough torque to tow a trailer w/another pickup on it easily at that speed. So when I go to the ZF5 I'll just tow in 4th and use 5th for cruising - much more quietly and efficiently than today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford F834 Posted May 11, 2018 Author Share Posted May 11, 2018 Big Blue is turning 2500 R's at 65 MPH, and has enough torque to tow a trailer w/another pickup on it easily at that speed. So when I go to the ZF5 I'll just tow in 4th and use 5th for cruising - much more quietly and efficiently than today. Gary, do you happen to know the curb weight of Big Blue? Do you happen to know the clutch diameter? I should measure the one that came out of my diesel. Also, I know you have mentioned it before but what tires are on Big Blue? I am guessing that my own anti-overdrive biases have slanted the responses here, but overall I am hearing the advice of keep it simple and re-gear. The DNE2 + divorced NP205 option is still haunting me a little, since it works in 2wd and 4wd. It is like re-gearing but with the option to go back at the flip of a switch. Divorced NP205’s are quite expensive, as are 3 custom driveshafts. But maybe not that much further out of line than new axle gears? There are also the very nice driveline brakes made for the 205, but I wouldn’t necessarily have to do the DNE2 idea for that. I could find a married one to replace the 1356 that likely needs rebuilt. Another option that ~may exist is re-gearing to 3.31’s. From what I read, this is the largest pinion gear that can fit in a Dana 60. However, the front Dana 60’s that had them were from the Expeditions in the 2000’s and I have no idea if the R&P set would fit my ‘86 kingpin Dana. Also, I don’t know if that gear exists for a Sterling 10.25, since the aforementioned Expeditions came with Sterling 10.5’s. Lastly, the only 3.31 D60 gears that I found were from Ford and were to the tune of $595 for just the gears. Hardly worth it for the little bit of edge over 3.55’s. Edit: On the note of comfortable driving speed, I usually have kept it down in the mid 60’s with these older trucks. That is where they handle and feel safe, as well as obtaining optimal mpg. My crew cab was kind of an exception. I think the super long wheelbase and rigid straight axle made it handle quite nice up to 75+ mph. But the noise was deafening. It pulled the strongest at 2,000 rpm, but cruised more comfortably at ~1,500-1,600rpm. With 2.50 final ratio that is 55-60mph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 Gary, do you happen to know the curb weight of Big Blue? Do you happen to know the clutch diameter? I should measure the one that came out of my diesel. Also, I know you have mentioned it before but what tires are on Big Blue? I am guessing that my own anti-overdrive biases have slanted the responses here, but overall I am hearing the advice of keep it simple and re-gear. The DNE2 + divorced NP205 option is still haunting me a little, since it works in 2wd and 4wd. It is like re-gearing but with the option to go back at the flip of a switch. Divorced NP205’s are quite expensive, as are 3 custom driveshafts. But maybe not that much further out of line than new axle gears? There are also the very nice driveline brakes made for the 205, but I wouldn’t necessarily have to do the DNE2 idea for that. I could find a married one to replace the 1356 that likely needs rebuilt. Another option that ~may exist is re-gearing to 3.31’s. From what I read, this is the largest pinion gear that can fit in a Dana 60. However, the front Dana 60’s that had them were from the Expeditions in the 2000’s and I have no idea if the R&P set would fit my ‘86 kingpin Dana. Also, I don’t know if that gear exists for a Sterling 10.25, since the aforementioned Expeditions came with Sterling 10.5’s. Lastly, the only 3.31 D60 gears that I found were from Ford and were to the tune of $595 for just the gears. Hardly worth it for the little bit of edge over 3.55’s. Edit: On the note of comfortable driving speed, I usually have kept it down in the mid 60’s with these older trucks. That is where they handle and feel safe, as well as obtaining optimal mpg. My crew cab was kind of an exception. I think the super long wheelbase and rigid straight axle made it handle quite nice up to 75+ mph. But the noise was deafening. It pulled the strongest at 2,000 rpm, but cruised more comfortably at ~1,500-1,600rpm. With 2.50 final ratio that is 55-60mph. I'm headed out, but the tires are LT285/75R16. Don't know the diameter. And the 1983 facts book says an F250 4x4 starts at 3994 lbs. They you add a 460, A/C, the huge tires, dual batteries, tool box, etc. Some have said 6500 but I'm not sure it'll go that much. EDIT: The 1983 facts book actually says 4372 lbs for a regular cab, long bed F250 HD 4wd. But, you have to add to that the 460 engine, dual batteries, etc..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nothing Special Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 I'm headed out, but the tires are LT285/75R16. Don't know the diameter.... 285/75-16 = 32.8" OD, 11.2" wide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford F834 Posted May 11, 2018 Author Share Posted May 11, 2018 I'm headed out, but the tires are LT285/75R16. Don't know the diameter. And the 1983 facts book says an F250 4x4 starts at 3994 lbs. They you add a 460, A/C, the huge tires, dual batteries, tool box, etc. Some have said 6500 but I'm not sure it'll go that much. EDIT: The 1983 facts book actually says 4372 lbs for a regular cab, long bed F250 HD 4wd. But, you have to add to that the 460 engine, dual batteries, etc..... Okay thanks. So your tires are perhaps an inch or so taller than the ones I usually use. Not a huge difference.... The weight may be considerable. Justin’s 4x4 Supercab IDI weighed in right about 7,000 lbs, and his is one of the lightest according to various threads on the subject. Mid 7,000’s to low 8,000’s are the commonly reported weights. Mine being a crew cab will probably be at least 7,000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85lebaront2 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 Okay thanks. So your tires are perhaps an inch or so taller than the ones I usually use. Not a huge difference.... The weight may be considerable. Justin’s 4x4 Supercab IDI weighed in right about 7,000 lbs, and his is one of the lightest according to various threads on the subject. Mid 7,000’s to low 8,000’s are the commonly reported weights. Mine being a crew cab will probably be at least 7,000. The Diesel does weigh even more than a 460, then add the second battery, 4WD adds a bunch more weight. Darth is a 2WD crew cab DRW truck and empty weight on a certified scale a couple of years ago was 6400 lbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 The Diesel does weigh even more than a 460, then add the second battery, 4WD adds a bunch more weight. Darth is a 2WD crew cab DRW truck and empty weight on a certified scale a couple of years ago was 6400 lbs.Somewhere in my literature I have the add-on weights for each accessory. I've found one set in the master parts catalog, but haven't found the weight to add for a 460, T-19, etc. I also have the 2nd battery, winch, and big bumper. But I doubt it'll exceed 6000 lbs. On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 4:19 PM, 85lebaront2 [via Bullnose Enthusiasts] <redacted_email_address> wrote: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford F834 Posted May 12, 2018 Author Share Posted May 12, 2018 Gary, Don’t sweat the weight details. I’m just trying to get a ballpark idea if the start out gear will work for me. I don’t know that even a thousand pounds one way or the other will make or break it. No matter what I do it is going to be apples to oranges anyway. I’m just going to have to pick a combination and run with it. I just wish it wasn’t such an ordeal to change later on with respect to driveshaft length or putting rebuild money into the wrong transmission 🙄 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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