Dual Exhaust Idea

[mat in tn]

Ouch! Those are going to be a serious problem.

There are two approaches. My approach on my vehicle would be to clean the area where the bolt meets the timing cover and then try to get the timing cover off. But that requires removing the fuel pump, and it means you need the timing cover gasket and pan repair gasket.

It is more work and if the bolts are really corroded to the timing cover you may not be able to get it off without a LOT of struggle. But if you do you can then properly get the bolts out of the block. On the other hand you may not get it off w/o destroying the timing cover as sometimes the bolts are REALLY married to the cover, and in that case you have created a lot of work.

The other approach is to get the ones out you can and drill/tap the ones you can't. On the ones that protrude I'd weld a nut on them. But the others you'll have to drill and then tap, and do your best to get the drill bit centered in the bolt.

Whichever way you go, slather the new bolts with some preventative! Some use anti-seize, but Jim has me using Loctite 56747 PST High Temperature Thread Sealant. It isn't cheap, but it will sure prevent things like this in the future.

oh you poor guy. order a new timing cover ! order a new timing chain! you are there! the only probable drill out is the one in the intake. the more time and money you spend trying not to will just cost you more and in more ways. but its all an education either way. if you are successful without that you need to move to vegas.

[Gary Lewis]

oh you poor guy. order a new timing cover ! order a new timing chain! you are there! the only probable drill out is the one in the intake. the more time and money you spend trying not to will just cost you more and in more ways. but its all an education either way. if you are successful without that you need to move to vegas.

Amen, brother! That is the worst example I've ever seen.

And you are right about the timing chain - replace it while you are in there.

[kramttocs]

Amen, brother! That is the worst example I've ever seen.

And you are right about the timing chain - replace it while you are in there.

Ugh, that's a rough photo right there! I guess the silver lining is that they aren't flush.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Amen, brother! That is the worst example I've ever seen.

And you are right about the timing chain - replace it while you are in there.

Eh... I've seen worse.

If you're going to pull the timing case do a really good job cleaning the front of the block first.

You don't want to get debris and grit into the front of your oil pan.

Then pack a rag in the gap while you scrape/grind the old gasket off the block

You'll need a harmonic puller and a new front main seal. Check that the old seal has not worn a lip in the spacer/damper/whatever.

If it has, you need a speedi-sleeve.

Still you have to get those bolts out.

I've never had success using an EZ-out on corroded fasteners.

If you have a welder run it as hot as you can without melting the nut you're trying to attach.

 

[mat in tn]

Eh... I've seen worse.

If you're going to pull the timing case do a really good job cleaning the front of the block first.

You don't want to get debris and grit into the front of your oil pan.

Then pack a rag in the gap while you scrape/grind the old gasket off the block

You'll need a harmonic puller and a new front main seal. Check that the old seal has not worn a lip in the spacer/damper/whatever.

If it has, you need a speedi-sleeve.

Still you have to get those bolts out.

I've never had success using an EZ-out on corroded fasteners.

If you have a welder run it as hot as you can without melting the nut you're trying to attach.

welding the nut can work well. im concerned about the fluffy corrosion along the aluminum cover though. it may not give a good heat sink to break the corrosive bond as that's most likely where it is. the last one I had to do was a quick decision to sacrifice the cover and it was by far the easiest way that time. i was lucky enough to have a couple used ones on hand so that helped make my decision too but i learned a lot that day.how fast one can fix it once you just stop dreading it and attack.

[ArdWrknTrk]

welding the nut can work well. im concerned about the fluffy corrosion along the aluminum cover though. it may not give a good heat sink to break the corrosive bond as that's most likely where it is. the last one I had to do was a quick decision to sacrifice the cover and it was by far the easiest way that time. i was lucky enough to have a couple used ones on hand so that helped make my decision too but i learned a lot that day.how fast one can fix it once you just stop dreading it and attack.

Depends if the bolts go through into coolant.

If they do and you haven't used proper sealant at the block you're in trouble.

I don't find the white fluffies hold too tight if you get the bolt shank hot enough.

If the timing case casting is really badly pitted and you don't feel like filling around the ports just order a new one and stainless bolts right now.

Sometimes I have more time than money....

You always have to ask "How much am I worth?"

[Machspeed]

Thanks Gary!

Thanks Jim!

I'll start the adjustment once I get the waterpump and radiator back in....

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_B3BTY3BONVzdZoq0DgV91Bt4dyZQz-NBg2s4X6UzYsPIMkx3CmuYSY4NF8024Z82ATgILAYHT_5wYcUrn6RHqkVqubhdaa6y0CjmSqv-f4NDcBthntIlwbuNvmLdGsfdKH34JXFhwA=w1200-h1500-p-k

....any tips on fixing broken bolts? weld on washer and nut?

Left handed Drill bits (prob not with this amount of age?)

EZ-Out?

Etc, Etc

I had three snap on me in removing my timing cover to replace the chain. For obvious reasons, the important ones are the ones in the block. If you screw up the cover you can easily source another. I pulled the timing cover and removed the single bolt in it via tap drill methods. I was off a little and ended up using a heli-coil. With the cover off, I sprayed the two in the block with penetrating oil and let it sit over night. Doubt that did much good, really. Next day used a torch on them and tapped the bolts lightly with a small hammer, repeated the process many times. Eventually, I was able to work them loose with a pair of good Vice Grips. Heat is your best friend. Good luck!

[mat in tn]

I had three snap on me in removing my timing cover to replace the chain. For obvious reasons, the important ones are the ones in the block. If you screw up the cover you can easily source another. I pulled the timing cover and removed the single bolt in it via tap drill methods. I was off a little and ended up using a heli-coil. With the cover off, I sprayed the two in the block with penetrating oil and let it sit over night. Doubt that did much good, really. Next day used a torch on them and tapped the bolts lightly with a small hammer, repeated the process many times. Eventually, I was able to work them loose with a pair of good Vice Grips. Heat is your best friend. Good luck!

that's about the best way but it does need the cover out of the way. many over the years have not understood or pay 'ed enough respect to the corrosive characteristics of dissimilar metals. add to that the fact of these long bolts being only 5/16" and you may only have an 1/8" somewhere along the way as a result of corrosion. try to remove the cover by wedgeing as near to the bolt as possible. I use thin wood chisels for this, and I know some of you need to consult a cardiologist right now. if it cannot be wedged forward it will need to be cut. sometimes seemingly brutal methods are the best. if you ever saw a knee replacement surgery you would think twice before getting one.

 

[Gary Lewis]

that's about the best way but it does need the cover out of the way. many over the years have not understood or pay 'ed enough respect to the corrosive characteristics of dissimilar metals. add to that the fact of these long bolts being only 5/16" and you may only have an 1/8" somewhere along the way as a result of corrosion. try to remove the cover by wedgeing as near to the bolt as possible. I use thin wood chisels for this, and I know some of you need to consult a cardiologist right now. if it cannot be wedged forward it will need to be cut. sometimes seemingly brutal methods are the best. if you ever saw a knee replacement surgery you would think twice before getting one.

Yes dissimilar metals, especially when in the presence of an electrolyte, are a serious problem. And one that most owners don't think about. Not only does it cause serious problems like we are seeing here with steel, aluminum, and cast iron in contact with each other in the presence of the coolant, there's also the aluminum intake manifold many of these engines have and it is in contact with the iron heads. I've seen the sealing surfaces literally eaten away on aluminum intakes.

But it doesn't have to be! There are ways to prevent it, as explained in this article on HOW TO PREVENT GALVANIC EFFECT IN YOUR VEHICLE’S COOLING SYSTEM. And the main way to do that is to keep the coolant up to snuff - and do NOT run straight water. Here's what they say in part:

Coolant loses its protective properties over time. Even in a new engine, it gradually picks up impurities, making it steadily more conductive and creating an environment where the galvanic effect can become a problem. That’s why it’s prudent to check its condition, especially if it’s been in the system for a while.

A periodic check of the pH level will help indicate when it is time to flush the system reducing the likelihood of problems related to galvanic effect. Test strips that measure the pH value of the coolant/water mixture for acidity are available at your local parts store. With a cool engine, open the radiator cap, dip the test strip into the coolant and read the results against the chart that comes with the strips.

However, when things are as far gone as they are in this case it is going to be either expensive or time-consuming, or both, to fix. And I'm with you, Matt, I think I'd do my best to get the timing cover off w/o ruining it, but accept the fact that it is likely a new one will be needed.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Yes dissimilar metals, especially when in the presence of an electrolyte, are a serious problem. And one that most owners don't think about. Not only does it cause serious problems like we are seeing here with steel, aluminum, and cast iron in contact with each other in the presence of the coolant, there's also the aluminum intake manifold many of these engines have and it is in contact with the iron heads. I've seen the sealing surfaces literally eaten away on aluminum intakes.

But it doesn't have to be! There are ways to prevent it, as explained in this article on HOW TO PREVENT GALVANIC EFFECT IN YOUR VEHICLE’S COOLING SYSTEM. And the main way to do that is to keep the coolant up to snuff - and do NOT run straight water. Here's what they say in part:

Coolant loses its protective properties over time. Even in a new engine, it gradually picks up impurities, making it steadily more conductive and creating an environment where the galvanic effect can become a problem. That’s why it’s prudent to check its condition, especially if it’s been in the system for a while.

A periodic check of the pH level will help indicate when it is time to flush the system reducing the likelihood of problems related to galvanic effect. Test strips that measure the pH value of the coolant/water mixture for acidity are available at your local parts store. With a cool engine, open the radiator cap, dip the test strip into the coolant and read the results against the chart that comes with the strips.

However, when things are as far gone as they are in this case it is going to be either expensive or time-consuming, or both, to fix. And I'm with you, Matt, I think I'd do my best to get the timing cover off w/o ruining it, but accept the fact that it is likely a new one will be needed.

Personally the most concerning thing here is that lower thermostat housing bolt. 😶

We all know that those rarely get the proper sealant.

You can see the chest bolts were all solid enough to take a hammering and I'm sure Alex has already tried grabbing what's left with locking pliers.

Sure, the bolts will have pitting, but all that corrosion is from the magnesium, zinc and aluminum in the timing case alloy.

I use passivated stainless bolts because they don't pit, leaving a smooth shank the corrosion can't grab hold of.

If they are rusted tight into the block there is no easy answer.

Wasn't it Scott who was going to hang an anode in his radiator?

What happened with that???