Running new AC lines for 460 swap

[Littlebeefy]

This may be a quick question for somebody who has done this successfully, or it may be a very complex question for someone who has done this unsuccessfully hahaha.

I'm swapping a 460 into an 84 Bronco with factory A/C. I'm placing the Sanden style compressor on the passenger side of the engine using an aftermarket mount, meaning it won't be where it was on my 351W or where it would normally be on a 460. The factory system was not maintaining a charge and I'm not sure why, so I figured I'd take this opportunity to replace whatever I can.

What should I do for lines? Should I just bend my own? I was looking at Rock Auto to see what the standard fittings are and I guess it's not as straightforward as I thought. I need to know if I have a manual shut-off valve at the compressor for one (do I?).

I'm already bending a bunch of soft steel for the brakes and fuel lines and even some of the low pressure lines, so it wouldn't be that much more painful to custom bend some refrigerant hose if needed. What material and ID would be best for refrigerant line? Should I insulate it?

Thanks

 

[FuzzFace2]

I kind of went through this last summer on my 81 F100 with a 300 six.

The truck had a York compressor but I switched to the later V belt Sanden style compressor as I did not have any mounts for either.

Even with the compressors mounted in the same area they used different hose routing and fitting ends at the compressor.I did have to reuse 1 of the lines from my truck but was able to use hoses from the later truck to fit the compressor to get it to all work.

I dont think you can make up the hoses as the rubber needs to be "made / clamped" to the metal line with tools made just for this.

I would also not order any of the lines from on line, get them from local parts store for easy returning if you can.

I would mount the compressor and get the belt routing taken care of first.

Then with the hoses you have see what "may work" for fittings and routing.

Now if some will work you can either reuse it or go new if you want.

Now for the ones that dont work I can see 2 ways of going back then.

If I had the right ends but the hose was to short or long was to find a lock shop that could make up new hose using my ends. If I could not take the truck to them I was going to have to come up with a way to make the ends "clock" right when the hose was made.

1 company was On Site Hose said they had some AC hose in stock and could make up hoses for me.

The other was to find an after market AC hose kit on line.

It came with the metal hose ends (fittings) and the rubber hose and you make your hoses.

I was also looking at the tool needed to crimp the rubber to the fitting to look factory as the tool was not too much money.

Again I was lucky as I found off the shelf hoses, 1 does run across the top of the motor and not to the firewall to the other side like the later trucks do.

So dont over look the later 80's trucks that use Sanden style compressor for a hose that may work.

Dave ----

[FuzzFace2]

I kind of went through this last summer on my 81 F100 with a 300 six.

The truck had a York compressor but I switched to the later V belt Sanden style compressor as I did not have any mounts for either.

Even with the compressors mounted in the same area they used different hose routing and fitting ends at the compressor.I did have to reuse 1 of the lines from my truck but was able to use hoses from the later truck to fit the compressor to get it to all work.

I dont think you can make up the hoses as the rubber needs to be "made / clamped" to the metal line with tools made just for this.

I would also not order any of the lines from on line, get them from local parts store for easy returning if you can.

I would mount the compressor and get the belt routing taken care of first.

Then with the hoses you have see what "may work" for fittings and routing.

Now if some will work you can either reuse it or go new if you want.

Now for the ones that dont work I can see 2 ways of going back then.

If I had the right ends but the hose was to short or long was to find a lock shop that could make up new hose using my ends. If I could not take the truck to them I was going to have to come up with a way to make the ends "clock" right when the hose was made.

1 company was On Site Hose said they had some AC hose in stock and could make up hoses for me.

The other was to find an after market AC hose kit on line.

It came with the metal hose ends (fittings) and the rubber hose and you make your hoses.

I was also looking at the tool needed to crimp the rubber to the fitting to look factory as the tool was not too much money.

Again I was lucky as I found off the shelf hoses, 1 does run across the top of the motor and not to the firewall to the other side like the later trucks do.

So dont over look the later 80's trucks that use Sanden style compressor for a hose that may work.

Dave ----

Side note:

You said the system does not work now do you know why?

Hole in the system somewhere?

I was told my system was working up to when the truck ended upside down in a ditch.

The PO pulled the motor before I got the truck and put the water pump into the AC condenser

I thought just the fins where bad but when I went to blow air through it the tubes where crushed, so had to get a new condenser. The new ones dont bolt in 100% but not too hard to make it work.

You need to space out the lower part to clear the radiator support by about 1/4" along with the hood latch support at the bottom. I used longer bolts and tubing cut to size and it works great.

All the factory hoses still fit the new condenser and the condenser is made for 134a, the old was for R12.

So you may want to replace it as the old one may not work as good and flushing it could be a pain.

You will want to replace the dryer and the orifice valve when ever the system is opened up. I also flushed out the Evap coil just to be safe, it had no junk in it.

I also replaced the PSI switch with the later 134a as 134a runs at a different PSI than R12. They say you can adjust the old R12 one but I felt best to replace it with all the work I was doing to get my system working again.

The only other thing I ran into was I could not hook up my gauge set to the high side. The fitting is smaller than my sets fitting so I could only fill & check on the low side only.

I just fixed my system, had a leak at a compressor fitting (hope) it was a rubber O-ring as it fell off the hose fitting when I removed it.

Dave ----

[85lebaront2]

There used to be a couple of companies that made "universal" lines that used heavy wall hose and clamp retained fittings. Murray was one of them and I can't remember the other. If you have a custom AC shop in your area, or possibly a place that makes high pressure hydraulic lines they may be able to do them. The other option is look into the companies that make AC systems for custom cars. Many of these are 40s and 50s vehicles that either never had AC from the factory or it was extremely rare. They will have lines, fittings and even bulkhead penetrations.

[Littlebeefy]

Side note:

You said the system does not work now do you know why?

Hole in the system somewhere?

I was told my system was working up to when the truck ended upside down in a ditch.

The PO pulled the motor before I got the truck and put the water pump into the AC condenser

I thought just the fins where bad but when I went to blow air through it the tubes where crushed, so had to get a new condenser. The new ones dont bolt in 100% but not too hard to make it work.

You need to space out the lower part to clear the radiator support by about 1/4" along with the hood latch support at the bottom. I used longer bolts and tubing cut to size and it works great.

All the factory hoses still fit the new condenser and the condenser is made for 134a, the old was for R12.

So you may want to replace it as the old one may not work as good and flushing it could be a pain.

You will want to replace the dryer and the orifice valve when ever the system is opened up. I also flushed out the Evap coil just to be safe, it had no junk in it.

I also replaced the PSI switch with the later 134a as 134a runs at a different PSI than R12. They say you can adjust the old R12 one but I felt best to replace it with all the work I was doing to get my system working again.

The only other thing I ran into was I could not hook up my gauge set to the high side. The fitting is smaller than my sets fitting so I could only fill & check on the low side only.

I just fixed my system, had a leak at a compressor fitting (hope) it was a rubber O-ring as it fell off the hose fitting when I removed it.

Dave ----

This is exactly the kind of info I was looking for.

I don't know what's wrong with the factory A/C. I'd get it serviced at a shop, it would blow could for a few weeks, then kaput. Did that twice. I have not done any troubleshooting besides that. The last mechanic who looked at it (one I very much trust), said that if I wanted it working, I'd have to be willing to potentially replace the whole system, because, in his experience with cars of this vintage, that may be what it takes.

Additionally, when I would run my heater during the winter, my engine temperature would actually rise somewhat significantly. Not to the point of overheating but it did seem strange to me since I thought the opposite should happen. I'm not sure if there is a blockage or what.

I have to replace the compressor to get the new accessory mounts to work on the 460. I just figured, with the engine out, I'd go ahead and replace the whole system. I wasn't going to replace my condenser unless I found a leak because I heard about bad fit on the radiator support for the bullnose, but I'm going to take your advice and replace that too.

So my current needs list is compressor, condenser, drier/accumulator, evaporator core, heater core, orifice tube, oring kit, valve AN cap kit, liquid line, suction line, discharge line, heater hose and return. What is a PSI switch? I don't see that on Rock Auto. Do I need a new ambient air temperature switch? I'm just going off the list from Rock Auto, which I know is a bad idea, but it's the best I can figure right now.

Being in Atlanta I have plenty of options for places that will fabricate the lines for me if need be, so I'm willing to tackle that last, but want to get everything else in place while I'm doing the engine swap.

[85lebaront2]

This is exactly the kind of info I was looking for.

I don't know what's wrong with the factory A/C. I'd get it serviced at a shop, it would blow could for a few weeks, then kaput. Did that twice. I have not done any troubleshooting besides that. The last mechanic who looked at it (one I very much trust), said that if I wanted it working, I'd have to be willing to potentially replace the whole system, because, in his experience with cars of this vintage, that may be what it takes.

Additionally, when I would run my heater during the winter, my engine temperature would actually rise somewhat significantly. Not to the point of overheating but it did seem strange to me since I thought the opposite should happen. I'm not sure if there is a blockage or what.

I have to replace the compressor to get the new accessory mounts to work on the 460. I just figured, with the engine out, I'd go ahead and replace the whole system. I wasn't going to replace my condenser unless I found a leak because I heard about bad fit on the radiator support for the bullnose, but I'm going to take your advice and replace that too.

So my current needs list is compressor, condenser, drier/accumulator, evaporator core, heater core, orifice tube, oring kit, valve AN cap kit, liquid line, suction line, discharge line, heater hose and return. What is a PSI switch? I don't see that on Rock Auto. Do I need a new ambient air temperature switch? I'm just going off the list from Rock Auto, which I know is a bad idea, but it's the best I can figure right now.

Being in Atlanta I have plenty of options for places that will fabricate the lines for me if need be, so I'm willing to tackle that last, but want to get everything else in place while I'm doing the engine swap.

There is a place near NW Atlanta, Mustang Farm Restoration Services, Lee Mathias owns it. He is a friend from way before FB, he and I were both president of Beach Ford Mustang Club. I am sure he still has his 1965 Shelby GT350, unfortunately I had to sell my 1966 as I had 3 kids and needed the money.

He probably knows someone who can make lines for custom applications. Just tell him Bill Vose referred you.

[Littlebeefy]

There is a place near NW Atlanta, Mustang Farm Restoration Services, Lee Mathias owns it. He is a friend from way before FB, he and I were both president of Beach Ford Mustang Club. I am sure he still has his 1965 Shelby GT350, unfortunately I had to sell my 1966 as I had 3 kids and needed the money.

He probably knows someone who can make lines for custom applications. Just tell him Bill Vose referred you.

Thanks, Bill. I'll reach out to him.

[FuzzFace2]

Thanks, Bill. I'll reach out to him.

Chad, It sounds like you have a good plan, to get all the main parts in place then the lines.

Dont trash the lines you have now as they may fit in 1 place or more and could help get "off the shelf" hoses. A shop might also be able to use the hose ends too.

The pressure switch goes in the drier and has 2 wires going to it.

You old one can be adjusted but I just went for a new one.

You cant get one for your truck as it will be for R12 you need one running 134a like on the later trucks but still has the same plug. I can dig up my old switch for the P/N in a day or 2.

Dave ----

[Littlebeefy]

Chad, It sounds like you have a good plan, to get all the main parts in place then the lines.

Dont trash the lines you have now as they may fit in 1 place or more and could help get "off the shelf" hoses. A shop might also be able to use the hose ends too.

The pressure switch goes in the drier and has 2 wires going to it.

You old one can be adjusted but I just went for a new one.

You cant get one for your truck as it will be for R12 you need one running 134a like on the later trucks but still has the same plug. I can dig up my old switch for the P/N in a day or 2.

Dave ----

Thanks, Dave. Is this part also referred to as an A/C clutch cycle switch? If so, seems like there are lots of options. Is there any way to tell what will work with 134a? I see new parts that "fit". Is it safe to assume all of those are 134a?

[FuzzFace2]

Thanks, Dave. Is this part also referred to as an A/C clutch cycle switch? If so, seems like there are lots of options. Is there any way to tell what will work with 134a? I see new parts that "fit". Is it safe to assume all of those are 134a?

I guess it could be called that as it would cycle the compressor clutch based on PSI.

IIRC the switch is not marked for R12 or 134a and both will swap.

I think what I did was look up when the switch to 134a was used and went with that.

Again the only difference in the switches is what they are adjusted to for the system its used on so you could adjust yours if you wanted to.

I will get the PN of what I used ASAP for you.

Dave ----