Help needed with HVAC vacuum harness

[ArdWrknTrk]

To finish up this post, I got a couple hoses made at a local hydraulics shop for $140, then had my mechanic look over my work and see how badly I bunged it up. I had installed the orifice tube upside down, but other than that, he pronounced it good and filled it up with R134. I now have cold air!

One observation he made was that I really need to activate my electric fans when the AC is on. So I ran a wire from the clutch over to the relay that triggers the fans. I put a diode in the wire, so that when the fans came on they didn't back-feed into the clutch and cause the compressor to come on any time the fans come on.

All that works great, and I have used the AC a few times since then, it blows acceptably cold. The biggest thing I notice is that with the AC on (and therefore the radiator fans on), and the blower fan going, my voltmeter is struggling to read 12 volts, when it normally reads a little over 14. I have a 60 amp alternator on it, but who knows what it's really putting out. This is in the daytime, with no headlights and the stereo off. So on a rainy night, with the defrost on, the wipers on, the headlights on, maybe some tunes... that's going to be bad. Time for a new alternator.

I spent a LOT of time researching out 3G alternator upgrades on this site and others. There was a lot of information and conversation, but I was not able to locate the holy grail of "buy this part number and bolt it on, it's plug n play". So I ended up ordering this from Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000PDICF2?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details

It will be here later in the week or maybe early next week, so we'll see what needs to happen to make it work.

No 3G is plug & play....

You're going from an externally regulated alternator to an internally regulated one that needs a hefty output cable and fuse.

I think Scott has a Powermaster one wire alternator.

Maybe he can help?

[Pete Whitstone]

No 3G is plug & play....

You're going from an externally regulated alternator to an internally regulated one that needs a hefty output cable and fuse.

I think Scott has a Powermaster one wire alternator.

Maybe he can help?

I'm not really concerned with the wiring, that one's easy, 8g cable from alt lug to batt+. I'm more concerned with, will it really just bolt it?

I'm confused by your statement about this alternator in your previous post. Are you saying this is not a 3G alternator?

[ArdWrknTrk]

I'm not really concerned with the wiring, that one's easy, 8g cable from alt lug to batt+. I'm more concerned with, will it really just bolt it?

I'm confused by your statement about this alternator in your previous post. Are you saying this is not a 3G alternator?

That is nothing like a 3G alternator.

You've said you looked at the tutorial here, and several other places.

There's a lot of pictures showing how to identify the ones that work.

http://www.garysgaragemahal.com/3g-conversion.html

Does that look anything like the other examples you've seen?

Does the wiring look anything like the regulator plug needed with a 3G?

I think my recommendation was for a '92 Taurus 3.8l V-6.

Prices have gone up about $15 because of copper and shipping is through the roof right now.

https://www.dbelectrical.com/products/alternator-3-8-3-8l-taurus-sable-90-93-continental-91-92-93-94.html

You need to swap out the pulley, tap the adjuster ear from 8x1.25 to 3/8-16 and make or buy the regulator+stator plug.

https://www.amazon.com/Standard-Motor-Products-HP3910-handypack/dp/B00HSILIR6/ref=sr_1_43?dchild=1&keywords=DB+electrical+130+3G+alternator+400-14011&qid=1623259362&s=automotive&sr=1-43

https://www.amazon.com/Pico-5747pt-Ford-Regulatr-Pigtail/dp/B001RPWWZI/ref=sr_1_84?dchild=1&keywords=DB+electrical+3G+130A+alternator&qid=1623259908&s=automotive&sr=1-84

Here's a no name brand already set up with a V-belt pulley:. https://www.amazon.com/Alternator-F2UU-10300-DC-F2UZ-10346-B-F2UZ-10346-BRM-F6PZ-10346-XARM2/dp/B07ZQSMGT2/ref=sr_1_72_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=DB+electrical+130+3G+alternator+400-14011&qid=1623259416&s=automotive&sr=1-72-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExQldCUDlNWjA4Q1pNJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwOTc4OTI2M0RYQ0o3UUhPRVo4VyZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwOTgyOTc3M0tMVEZPWEtLVlNCNiZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2J0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

 

[Pete Whitstone]

You need to swap out the pulley, tap the adjuster ear from 8x1.25 to 3/8-16 and make or buy the regulator+stator plug.

I think you just made my point when I said that I didn't find the post that said "buy one of these, bolt it on, it's plug and play".

It may or may not have the same components as a "true" 3G, whatever that is. But it looks like it will probably bolt on and work and provide 100 amps instead of the 60 I have now, so we'll see how it works out. Supposed to be delivered today, I will probably try to install it after work. More to come.

[ArdWrknTrk]

You need to swap out the pulley, tap the adjuster ear from 8x1.25 to 3/8-16 and make or buy the regulator+stator plug.

I think you just made my point when I said that I didn't find the post that said "buy one of these, bolt it on, it's plug and play".

It may or may not have the same components as a "true" 3G, whatever that is. But it looks like it will probably bolt on and work and provide 100 amps instead of the 60 I have now, so we'll see how it works out. Supposed to be delivered today, I will probably try to install it after work. More to come.

Gary has a tab called "Choosing an Alternator" which shows Ford# F1DZ-10346-B AKA Lester# 7756-7 as being the first choice.

These numbers will cross over to a multitude of aftermarket manufacturers with any web search or at any parts counter.

He even posts a link to the DB AFD0028, which is the one I ordered with Load Response Control.

I don't see how any of that is confusing.

Gary can be way too circular in his microanalysis, but if you're a member here you're obviously well aware of that by now.

Like I said, I'm pretty sure Scott has an upgraded Powermaster 200A(?) one wire alternator.

I'm sure he would be glad to offer advice on how to get this to work for you.

 

[ArdWrknTrk]

Gary has a tab called "Choosing an Alternator" which shows Ford# F1DZ-10346-B AKA Lester# 7756-7 as being the first choice.

These numbers will cross over to a multitude of aftermarket manufacturers with any web search or at any parts counter.

He even posts a link to the DB AFD0028, which is the one I ordered with Load Response Control.

I don't see how any of that is confusing.

Gary can be way too circular in his microanalysis, but if you're a member here you're obviously well aware of that by now.

Like I said, I'm pretty sure Scott has an upgraded Powermaster 200A(?) one wire alternator.

I'm sure he would be glad to offer advice on how to get this to work for you.

I tagged Scott, and asked him to have a look here, as there is some discussion in his Camano thread of getting his Powermaster alternator repaired.

It's crapped out with a shorted rotor and I guess the local auto electric rebuilder can't find a suitable replacement part.

This kinda goes hand in hand with Gary's experience, where Powermaster will not sell him parts to fix the Powermaster starter Vern had installed in Big Blue.

Shipping a chunk of metal like that back and forth to them for repair (plus their extended leade time) when it's a cheap set of brushes or a solenoid contact doesn't make it viable.

[kramttocs]

I tagged Scott, and asked him to have a look here, as there is some discussion in his Camano thread of getting his Powermaster alternator repaired.

It's crapped out with a shorted rotor and I guess the local auto electric rebuilder can't find a suitable replacement part.

This kinda goes hand in hand with Gary's experience, where Powermaster will not sell him parts to fix the Powermaster starter Vern had installed in Big Blue.

Shipping a chunk of metal like that back and forth to them for repair (plus their extended leade time) when it's a cheap set of brushes or a solenoid contact doesn't make it viable.

Thanks for the heads up Jim

I have mixed feelings on the Powermaster 1 wire and those feelings will likely either stay mixed or heavily lean one way in a couple of days.

What you are looking at there is bolt-in but not plug and play. It's a 10 (or 12?)-si in a Ford casing. It has all the right dimensions and wiring is dead simple but it isn't factory wiring. It will take a large cable (4awg if me) going from the post on the back to a fuse (I'd do 125A) with the other side going to the battery and then a ground cable that bolts into the back of the casing. Done.

That's the good. The thing to note is that you'll do this exact same thing but just throw in 1 more small gauge wire and from a wiring standpoint you're pretty much setup for a 3G. Depending on your choke setup, the 3G is a 2 wire vs this 1 wire.

The bad as Jim mentioned is that both Gary and mine gave up the ghost. I don't know the mileage on Gary's but mine is under 4k. Also as Jim said, getting them repaired doesn't give you many options.

$30 minimum to get it there and back. Inspection and labor are free so it's just parts that you will pay for but you don't know how much that will be. I would be surprised if it comes out cheaper than a new 3G.

I assumed that it was standard parts in there so I dropped mine off at an alternator shop yesterday. Got a call today with the diagnosis and unfortunately the rebuilder can make something equivalent but it wouldn't be as good as theirs (his words). I don't have any more details than that and it's possible another shop would have the same parts - I don't know. The rebuilder has a call in to see if Powermaster will sell him the parts but from Gary's experience it doesn't seem likely. That's what we hope to hear back on in a couple of days.

I don't feel I am at the point where I would speak poorly of Powermaster. Their techs have always been great to talk to but depending upon how they handle this rebuild is going to be the tipping point for me and my parts buying in the future. It's a shame because I really like their starter I have. Of course that is after the first one died after a month...

Since you have it ordered and if you prefer that wiring setup and bolt in option I'd have no qualms about running with it. As with everything, it's a gamble. Yours may outlast the truck and with it being 100A vs my 150A it may help with a longer lifespan as well. If the repair process on mine doesn't put me off, I'll happily be putting mine back on.

d for the 1 wire. In daily use I don't think it will really bite you but it's something to be aware of.

In my shopping the past couple of days I didn't find any store in my hometown that carried the recommended 3G . Plus it requires the thread tapping. So as far as one being better when broken down

As far as the 3G vs a 1 wire, ignoring brands, the only part I would think about is the rpm excite thresholon the side of the road, the 3G may be a better choice for some but for me, it seems to be a wash.

Jim asks a good question with the electric fan draw. Would need to crunch the numbers for your truck but with dual electric fans, I am just not sure about the 100A and the 1wire since (again something Jim warned me about) the 1 wire doesn't seem to be all that impressive at idle. Kick up the rpms and it's great but when sitting about a stoplight with the a/c on and the fans running, I just don't know.

Not sure if all that text helps or not but those are my thoughts on the matter .

I am more than happy to show you the wiring setup on mine if you'd like.

 

[Pete Whitstone]

Thanks for the heads up Jim

I have mixed feelings on the Powermaster 1 wire and those feelings will likely either stay mixed or heavily lean one way in a couple of days.

What you are looking at there is bolt-in but not plug and play. It's a 10 (or 12?)-si in a Ford casing. It has all the right dimensions and wiring is dead simple but it isn't factory wiring. It will take a large cable (4awg if me) going from the post on the back to a fuse (I'd do 125A) with the other side going to the battery and then a ground cable that bolts into the back of the casing. Done.

That's the good. The thing to note is that you'll do this exact same thing but just throw in 1 more small gauge wire and from a wiring standpoint you're pretty much setup for a 3G. Depending on your choke setup, the 3G is a 2 wire vs this 1 wire.

The bad as Jim mentioned is that both Gary and mine gave up the ghost. I don't know the mileage on Gary's but mine is under 4k. Also as Jim said, getting them repaired doesn't give you many options.

$30 minimum to get it there and back. Inspection and labor are free so it's just parts that you will pay for but you don't know how much that will be. I would be surprised if it comes out cheaper than a new 3G.

I assumed that it was standard parts in there so I dropped mine off at an alternator shop yesterday. Got a call today with the diagnosis and unfortunately the rebuilder can make something equivalent but it wouldn't be as good as theirs (his words). I don't have any more details than that and it's possible another shop would have the same parts - I don't know. The rebuilder has a call in to see if Powermaster will sell him the parts but from Gary's experience it doesn't seem likely. That's what we hope to hear back on in a couple of days.

I don't feel I am at the point where I would speak poorly of Powermaster. Their techs have always been great to talk to but depending upon how they handle this rebuild is going to be the tipping point for me and my parts buying in the future. It's a shame because I really like their starter I have. Of course that is after the first one died after a month...

Since you have it ordered and if you prefer that wiring setup and bolt in option I'd have no qualms about running with it. As with everything, it's a gamble. Yours may outlast the truck and with it being 100A vs my 150A it may help with a longer lifespan as well. If the repair process on mine doesn't put me off, I'll happily be putting mine back on.

d for the 1 wire. In daily use I don't think it will really bite you but it's something to be aware of.

In my shopping the past couple of days I didn't find any store in my hometown that carried the recommended 3G . Plus it requires the thread tapping. So as far as one being better when broken down

As far as the 3G vs a 1 wire, ignoring brands, the only part I would think about is the rpm excite thresholon the side of the road, the 3G may be a better choice for some but for me, it seems to be a wash.

Jim asks a good question with the electric fan draw. Would need to crunch the numbers for your truck but with dual electric fans, I am just not sure about the 100A and the 1wire since (again something Jim warned me about) the 1 wire doesn't seem to be all that impressive at idle. Kick up the rpms and it's great but when sitting about a stoplight with the a/c on and the fans running, I just don't know.

Not sure if all that text helps or not but those are my thoughts on the matter .

I am more than happy to show you the wiring setup on mine if you'd like.

Thanks for weighing in, Scott. I installed the alternator last night, it did turn out to be mostly a drop-in thing. I think it was the right choice for my particular installation, which was:

1. No dashboard idiot light

2. Alternator came with a V pulley

3. My truck wiring was mostly screwed when I got it, and there were only 3 wires going to the alt anyways, the main charge wire, the excite wire from the VR, and the electric choke

It bolted right up, the only moment of concern was when I noticed that the pulley was a good bit smaller that the one that was on there, but there was still enough room on the adjustment arm that I didn't have to get a shorter belt.

I haven't ran it yet, but I hooked it up enough to test it. As you suggested, I ran a 4ga from the alt lug back to the starter solenoid batt+ post. I don't have a fuse in it yet but plan to add one tonight. The VR was eliminated of course. So that just left putting a ring terminal on the big yellow wire and also hooking it up to batt+. I will move this to the protected side of the fuse as well.

That just left the electric choke, which I don't have wired yet but I do have a handy place to tap into that is a keyed on source near the battery. This is in some wiring which I added to support the new instrument cluster.

With the key on, the voltmeter read around 12v. When I started it, it jumped to 14. I then turned on the AC (and therefore the rad fans), the blower fan on high, the headlights, and the wipers, it never moved off 14 volts, unlike the previous alternator.

I believe I recall from when I did the rad fan install that they draw 28 amps. There was a hand written tag from Powermaster which stated the alternator tested at putting out 89a at idle, 104 at cruise and 109 at max RPM. So I think I will be fine with that, if I stack all the possible amp draw up, I don't think it will get to 89.

It's disappointing to hear about the failures of Gary and your alternators. Time will tell on mine I guess. I'll finish up the final wiring on mine tonight and call it good.

Thanks for the input, everyone.

[kramttocs]

Thanks for weighing in, Scott. I installed the alternator last night, it did turn out to be mostly a drop-in thing. I think it was the right choice for my particular installation, which was:

1. No dashboard idiot light

2. Alternator came with a V pulley

3. My truck wiring was mostly screwed when I got it, and there were only 3 wires going to the alt anyways, the main charge wire, the excite wire from the VR, and the electric choke

It bolted right up, the only moment of concern was when I noticed that the pulley was a good bit smaller that the one that was on there, but there was still enough room on the adjustment arm that I didn't have to get a shorter belt.

I haven't ran it yet, but I hooked it up enough to test it. As you suggested, I ran a 4ga from the alt lug back to the starter solenoid batt+ post. I don't have a fuse in it yet but plan to add one tonight. The VR was eliminated of course. So that just left putting a ring terminal on the big yellow wire and also hooking it up to batt+. I will move this to the protected side of the fuse as well.

That just left the electric choke, which I don't have wired yet but I do have a handy place to tap into that is a keyed on source near the battery. This is in some wiring which I added to support the new instrument cluster.

With the key on, the voltmeter read around 12v. When I started it, it jumped to 14. I then turned on the AC (and therefore the rad fans), the blower fan on high, the headlights, and the wipers, it never moved off 14 volts, unlike the previous alternator.

I believe I recall from when I did the rad fan install that they draw 28 amps. There was a hand written tag from Powermaster which stated the alternator tested at putting out 89a at idle, 104 at cruise and 109 at max RPM. So I think I will be fine with that, if I stack all the possible amp draw up, I don't think it will get to 89.

It's disappointing to hear about the failures of Gary and your alternators. Time will tell on mine I guess. I'll finish up the final wiring on mine tonight and call it good.

Thanks for the input, everyone.

Excellent! Glad to hear you are up and going

Sounds like a smooth install. My only recommendation would be putting the yellow (cab power) wire on a dedicated fuse vs using the alt fuse. I have mine on a 60A midi fuse.