NP435 Noise

[Gary Lewis]

Thanks guys. Really appreciate the replies (and the vote of confidence Jim). I started to respond at least 4 times this weekend but I was jumping from job to job and never was able to fully type out a thought.

I will keep this to the point. If I was to list all the questions that went through my head this weekend on this, it would be a mess

I backed the truck out to swap places with the 86 and reverse sounded fine. Pulled it back in using 2nd. It definitely didn't make the noise like 1st did although I felt like I was starting to hear it if I gave it a little gas. Let off quickly and didn't test anymore.

Despite this truck being a bare metal floor I absolutely agree with Jim that without the cover, sounds are going to be "off" somewhat.

Drained and filtered the oil. No chunks and the gears looked the same. There were some shiny shavings on the magnet though. Looked all over, put it in the gears, and nothing stood out. Due to the increased thickness of the gvod adapter I had to get new bolts but, as it did on install, the three [hint] I could easily see where flush with the case.

Drained the gvod and removed it. Oil looked good there as well. Pulled the adapter. Found that the bottom driver side bolt had been ground down some. Found a few reports of this happening.

While embarrassing since I was concerned with this during install and mistakenly assumed if three were good the other was also, if this is the issue I will be happy. This would explain the shiny shavings on the magnet.

That's as far as I've gotten though I did pick up an adapter gasket today.

Jim - Regarding the gvod, this will explain it better than I could dream of. I haven't hooked up the electronics so for awhile it will only be direct drive. I think the alignment concern is valid so I took some measurements but everything seemed to be the same as with the original housing. The adapter actually still has a bushing in relatively the same place. Instead of the yoke, it's the coupler that joins the tailshaft to the gvod input shaft that uses the bushing. Not sure how much sense that makes without seeing it in person.

Dave - that's a great question. I never gave it gas in 1st with the driveshaft connected but can't recall now if it tried to more forward or not. I was too focused on stopping the noise that the truck could have been levitating and I doubt I'd have noticed. Even with the adapter on and putting it in first, the stick seemed like it went all the way as normal. Also having my wife shift it and me looking through the side, the gears seated as I'd expect. That makes me think it would have moved in first and the noise was truly just the reverse gear.

GL5 and GL4 for these transmissions. Now isn't that a nightmare to figure out I got lost a couple months ago trying to figure out what's I should use. Ended up just calling Amsoil and for better or worse they recommended this gear oil. It is GL-5 but also says it can be used in GL-4 diffs. Not sure if that means anything in regards to transmissions though and the yellow metal. Short answer - I really don't know, it may be a mistake to use it.

On the cover, I may still do that if this bolt isn't the whole issue. Is it as simple as removing the bolts and lifting off? The shop manual makes it seem so. Will anything go flying or falling?

I will dig out my cheap ebay scope to check how much I need to grind off the adapter bolt so it doesn't contact the reverse gear.

I would have expected to hear the same noise when entering 2nd gear and especially reverse. I will have to get my wife to shift through the gears again as I don't know what moves and what doesn't regarding that reverse (idler?) gear. My fear is that it shaved off what was needed for that clearance and the grinding noise is elsewhere. My hope is that it is still too proud and is preventing that gear from moving full travel. So maybe it's not a matter of two gears not meshing properly but rather a third gear not getting out of the way [of 1st gear].

I agree with Jim - you've found the problem. Well done!

[ArdWrknTrk]

I agree with Jim - you've found the problem. Well done!

"think"

 

[Gary Lewis]

"think"

Yup.

[kramttocs]

"think"

Yup.

As for how much needed cut off, it was around a 1/4" like the guy in the other forum.

Maybe if I'd been a little more observant I might have noticed the thicker flange for that bolt on the original housing

Got it all put back together and that noise is gone so that's good. That had to be putting quite a lot of pressure on that gear.

Bad news is that there is still a noise that I need to track down. I will have to drive it some more to find the specifics like at what speed, etc. but I do know that when going a decent speed if I push in the clutch it's still there.

That rules out a few things but still leaves the main changes: gvod and driveshaft

I checked the ujoints when I got back from a drive and they were cool to the touch.

I am leaning towards output bearing and that this noise is just more pronounced now.

Will drop the driveshaft to do some more elimination.

[Gary Lewis]

As for how much needed cut off, it was around a 1/4" like the guy in the other forum.

Maybe if I'd been a little more observant I might have noticed the thicker flange for that bolt on the original housing

Got it all put back together and that noise is gone so that's good. That had to be putting quite a lot of pressure on that gear.

Bad news is that there is still a noise that I need to track down. I will have to drive it some more to find the specifics like at what speed, etc. but I do know that when going a decent speed if I push in the clutch it's still there.

That rules out a few things but still leaves the main changes: gvod and driveshaft

I checked the ujoints when I got back from a drive and they were cool to the touch.

I am leaning towards output bearing and that this noise is just more pronounced now.

Will drop the driveshaft to do some more elimination.

One more layer peeled.

[kramttocs]

One more layer peeled.

And on to the next

Pretty sure it's my output bearing going out and probably has been for awhile but just now really noticing it (tranny cover is still off). I dropped the driveshaft and put my stethoscope on it. Really sounds like it's coming from back there, plus it makes sense if the noise is still present on the road even if I push in the clutch pedal.

Dave - what rebuild kit did you use? I see US Standard has some as well as Novak-adapt. Prices are all over the place though for what looks to be the same components.

[Gary Lewis]

And on to the next

Pretty sure it's my output bearing going out and probably has been for awhile but just now really noticing it (tranny cover is still off). I dropped the driveshaft and put my stethoscope on it. Really sounds like it's coming from back there, plus it makes sense if the noise is still present on the road even if I push in the clutch pedal.

Dave - what rebuild kit did you use? I see US Standard has some as well as Novak-adapt. Prices are all over the place though for what looks to be the same components.

Name's not Dave () but I've gotten good service from Midwest Transmissions.

[kramttocs]

Name's not Dave () but I've gotten good service from Midwest Transmissions.

Thanks Gary. I called them earlier today.

Having a hard time making sense of the pricing from the various companies/retailers.

Midwest and Novak at both at 300 while USA Standard (Summit) and JBG are 160-170.

The kits all look the same to me but that's a significant difference in price.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Thanks Gary. I called them earlier today.

Having a hard time making sense of the pricing from the various companies/retailers.

Midwest and Novak at both at 300 while USA Standard (Summit) and JBG are 160-170.

The kits all look the same to me but that's a significant difference in price.

It's probably the difference in name brand bearings and seals (Timken, SKF, NSK, FAG) and no-name bearings.

While that may not make a difference to many, a reputable shop doesn't ever want to have to explain why a Dong Yua bearing caused a customer to end up stranded.

That's not to say the major brands don't manufacture in China. And it's not to knock the abilities of Chinese manufacturing either.

It is about reputation, quality control and the ability of a transmission shop to say they haven't cut corners, when they have a warranty issue.

[Gary Lewis]

It's probably the difference in name brand bearings and seals (Timken, SKF, NSK, FAG) and no-name bearings.

While that may not make a difference to many, a reputable shop doesn't ever want to have to explain why a Dong Yua bearing caused a customer to end up stranded.

That's not to say the major brands don't manufacture in China. And it's not to knock the abilities of Chinese manufacturing either.

It is about reputation, quality control and the ability of a transmission shop to say they haven't cut corners, when they have a warranty issue.

I agree. Midwest probably uses their kits in their own rebuilds. They have a 12 month warranty on their transmissions.