Building a house (off-topic!)

[Gary Lewis]

Well it's great you've reached out to them!

If their prices are better and they're willing to come to your site to help for a nominal cost, it does look like a win, win.

Having someone from their A-team supervising and lending a hand at that critical stage could make all the difference.

I definitely hope the rest of the bumps in this project continue to get ironed out like this.

"I love it when a plan comes together!"

It does sound like a plan is coming together! The latest info on EF and their blocks as well as willingness to work with you seems like an extremely good fit. And having had problems pouring the shop floor when we got a hot load on a hot day with too few helpers makes me realize how important having the right help can be.

[ArdWrknTrk]

It does sound like a plan is coming together! The latest info on EF and their blocks as well as willingness to work with you seems like an extremely good fit. And having had problems pouring the shop floor when we got a hot load on a hot day with too few helpers makes me realize how important having the right help can be.

This 'EF Garage Mahal, in Scottsdale' clip might be of interest on the forum?

Sorry, I can't do imbeds from an Android phone.

[grumpin]

This 'EF Garage Mahal, in Scottsdale' clip might be of interest on the forum?

Sorry, I can't do imbeds from an Android phone.

That’s interesting!

[swampedout]

You might ask the batch plant in Bullhead City about a pump operator.

It always helps when the driver and pumper know one another.

Jim this is an extremely good suggestion! I will pursue this.

I have an update on the EF block. I spoke with Sue Ellen on the phone, and read Dan’s technical literature on their product. They are great people and offer awesome support. Their plant is very close to me, so freight would be minimal. She said they come up regularly from Tempe to support their plant, and she said they would be more than happy to have one of their people come out to help with the grouting at the cost of their daily wage which seems extremely fair. They have been doing this for 31 years and want to make sure every project done with their blocks is a success. Their blocks are also considerably cheaper. They not only cost less per block, but the blocks are 25% longer (60” vs 48”) which makes them 45% less per square foot than TPB’s 10” asymmetric. (And still 25% less per square foot than TPB’s 8” block). They use just a shade more concrete, but not enough to worry about. They definitely seem to be a better value, and she said their pricing has been flat since this plant opened in 2016? Seems like a pretty easy choice to make!

I havent caught up with the whole thread but it looks like youre getting good advice.

I know youve got plans drawn up already but I really like this design for passive cooling and keeping the sun off your roof.

[ArdWrknTrk]

I havent caught up with the whole thread but it looks like youre getting good advice.

I know youve got plans drawn up already but I really like this design for passive cooling and keeping the sun off your roof.

Roof-mounted solar definitely pays a two-fold dividend in the desert Southwest.

I don't know that I would want to live under a carport, or pay the construction costs to build a structure over and around my home.

But I can see how a design like that might capture any small breeze and make living more comfortable.

[Ford F834]

I havent caught up with the whole thread but it looks like youre getting good advice.

I know youve got plans drawn up already but I really like this design for passive cooling and keeping the sun off your roof.

Sorry I missed this post, my phone was crashing repeatedly and lost all sound, so I had minimal online access until my replacement arrived.

I don’t think I’d want to pay for two roofs, and the framework would have to be very strong steel to hold up to our winds here. I would actually like something like that next to the house, though, to provide outdoor shade. I am going to put a screen porch on the south side of the house for that purpose. I would love shade trees, but I don’t want their roots in the septic and I don’t want a brittle fast grower falling on the house. Our brutal climate isn’t great for growing trees that will provide any shade in my lifetime. We are not in the hottest area of Arizona, but shade is a real challenge.

[Ford F834]

I'm not so sure about residential sprinklers until people change materials.

I've seen too many I-joist/OSB/blown fill houses completely demolished because sprinklers for a contained fire saturated the structure and turned it to pulp.

Jim, I grabbed this quote from the fire extinguisher thread because it is more about me thinking of putting a sprinkler system in my house than under-hood extinguisher systems...

I am not wanting to incite a political or philosophical rant, but I am curious about what you have witnessed regarding soggy OSB houses. Everything I turned up on the internet was to the opposite effect, that only the affected sprinkler goes off (unlike the movies) and that water damage was far less than what the fire would have done without the system. I am just looking for a balanced view, and real world experiences would help. I will have OSB I-Joists in the roof, but the walls will be ICCF and the floor will be joisted with 2x8’s. I was going to use real plywood deck in the kitchen and bathrooms, but if I install sprinklers maybe I should spend the money to use it throughout. I think CDX and 2x8’s could withstand a water event as long as I could get it dried out afterwards. The roof I have no choice because of the span, but hopefully the sprinkler systems wouldn’t saturate the ceiling and roof structure. Also, since I am on hauled water I will probably need to use a dedicated pump and storage tank. I think for well owners the recommended minimum size is 550 gallons. I know that most builders who are not forced by code to put in a system, don’t do it... but I’m wondering if this is a cost decision or are there really that many houses being badly damaged by sprinkler activations?

[ArdWrknTrk]

I'm not so sure about residential sprinklers until people change materials.

I've seen too many I-joist/OSB/blown fill houses completely demolished because sprinklers for a contained fire saturated the structure and turned it to pulp.

Jim, I grabbed this quote from the fire extinguisher thread because it is more about me thinking of putting a sprinkler system in my house than under-hood extinguisher systems...

I am not wanting to incite a political or philosophical rant, but I am curious about what you have witnessed regarding soggy OSB houses. Everything I turned up on the internet was to the opposite effect, that only the affected sprinkler goes off (unlike the movies) and that water damage was far less than what the fire would have done without the system. I am just looking for a balanced view, and real world experiences would help. I will have OSB I-Joists in the roof, but the walls will be ICCF and the floor will be joisted with 2x8’s. I was going to use real plywood deck in the kitchen and bathrooms, but if I install sprinklers maybe I should spend the money to use it throughout. I think CDX and 2x8’s could withstand a water event as long as I could get it dried out afterwards. The roof I have no choice because of the span, but hopefully the sprinkler systems wouldn’t saturate the ceiling and roof structure. Also, since I am on hauled water I will probably need to use a dedicated pump and storage tank. I think for well owners the recommended minimum size is 550 gallons. I know that most builders who are not forced by code to put in a system, don’t do it... but I’m wondering if this is a cost decision or are there really that many houses being badly damaged by sprinkler activations?

I think you are fine in that situation and given your construction.

Given your remote location and lack of water as a utility, it makes a lot of sense to have sprinklers to knock down a fire.

Where I've seen damage is when TGI's packed with insulation have been soaked by a leak, sprinkler or fire fighters.

it seems even if you get there the next day to rip out the sheetrock and soggy insulation the damage is done, any flake board material has puffed up and the web of the joists is not firmly attached to the flanges any more.

(Edit) things may be very different in your parched climate.

If you can get it opened up right away, things might dry out before permanent damage is done.

When the codes were changed to allow wood construction for multifamily dwellings over 3 storeys (with sprinklers installed) these structures end up being total loss.

But codes have also changed so that single family over X,XXX sq ft have to have sprinklers as well.

That plus the adoption of OSB structural members and sheathing means a first floor kitchen fire compromises the entire structure above and around it.

The way the construction trades utilize our forest resources is constantly changing. New products are being developed and written into code.

While it is all progress (and well intentioned) there are also long term fiascos.

We've seen it with EIFS.

We've seen it with fiberboard siding.

We've seen it with membranes.

 

[Ford F834]

I think you are fine in that situation and given your construction.

Given your remote location and lack of water as a utility, it makes a lot of sense to have sprinklers to knock down a fire.

Where I've seen damage is when TGI's packed with insulation have been soaked by a leak, sprinkler or fire fighters.

it seems even if you get there the next day to rip out the sheetrock and soggy insulation the damage is done, any flake board material has puffed up and the web of the joists is not firmly attached to the flanges any more.

(Edit) things may be very different in your parched climate.

If you can get it opened up right away, things might dry out before permanent damage is done.

When the codes were changed to allow wood construction for multifamily dwellings over 3 storeys (with sprinklers installed) these structures end up being total loss.

But codes have also changed so that single family over X,XXX sq ft have to have sprinklers as well.

That plus the adoption of OSB structural members and sheathing means a first floor kitchen fire compromises the entire structure above and around it.

The way the construction trades utilize our forest resources is constantly changing. New products are being developed and written into code.

While it is all progress (and well intentioned) there are also long term fiascos.

We've seen it with EIFS.

We've seen it with fiberboard siding.

We've seen it with membranes.

Thanks Jim. I can see how this could be a controversial subject, especially if home buyers don’t know, and don’t even think to ask how the house is constructed. Just because it meets code does not mean it’s a good idea and the builder will go with the cheapest option (especially if it’s not something that shows). That can lead to a very nasty surprise later. They say OSB is superior sheathing because of shear strength and flatness, but the argument literally falls apart if moisture is involved 😬

[ArdWrknTrk]

Thanks Jim. I can see how this could be a controversial subject, especially if home buyers don’t know, and don’t even think to ask how the house is constructed. Just because it meets code does not mean it’s a good idea and the builder will go with the cheapest option (especially if it’s not something that shows). That can lead to a very nasty surprise later. They say OSB is superior sheathing because of shear strength and flatness, but the argument literally falls apart if moisture is involved 😬

Flat compared to what?

Plywood that is nailed/screwed & glued across 7 studs, joists or rafters???

I get it that no one wants formaldehyde in their house.

But the glues just don't hold up.

And I can't speak for Advantech, but any 'normal' OSB product doesn't have enough wax sealer to keep water out.

"Passed Inspection! And got the C.O."... (like that means anything more than a D- )

Your be amazed at how many people want me to cut corners where it won't be seen.

But it will effect the structural integrity of their house, is not up to code, and won't support it's very reason for being done.

Like they don't want me to level a floor and use proper underlayment grade plywood, but they want large format or marble tile over two layers of 7/16 with lots of settling and no screws or glue.

Or they don't want me to straighten walls that will have cabinets.

After seeing some of the stuff I have to repair, I understand why many contractors have their reputation.

I really want out of this industry.