Building a house (off-topic!)

[Gsmblue]

Jonathan - You answered a question I was going to ask about electrical, and I assume, plumbing. Do you run conduit? And will you use PEX for the water? And since you'll be on a crawl space, I assume everything comes up from below?

If so, how high did you say the crawl space is? How easy will it be to run things later or will you do it first and frame around it?

Good luck, I just finished up a 1700sqft addition. I have a crawl space and the floor is firm but forgiving.

Watching with interest.

[Ford F834]

Jonathan - You answered a question I was going to ask about electrical, and I assume, plumbing. Do you run conduit? And will you use PEX for the water? And since you'll be on a crawl space, I assume everything comes up from below?

If so, how high did you say the crawl space is? How easy will it be to run things later or will you do it first and frame around it?

Jim, I agree that the synthesizer soundtrack and power-point-like production leaves a lot to be desired... but it does give a visual overview of the product. The fire rating was tested by a company called Intertek using methods described in the ASTM E119. The summary of the test report is provided within the Perfect Block ICC Equivalent Product Compliance Report here:

https://theperfectblock.com/wp-content/themes/perfect-block/app/assets/downloads/ebs-products-icc-equivalent-compliance-criteria-with-test-tesults-4-6-2018.pdf.

The technology has been around long enough, (between this manufacturer and many others) that I think it is trustworthy. The perfect block is just the closest to me, and some of the other companies make much larger blocks that require multiple people or machines to lift and place them.

Gary, the wire can be either in conduit or run directly into the saw cut channels. One can inset PEX or other pipe systems if desired. If the pipe diameter is greater than 2” such as a toilet vent, then the pipe must be placed in one of the block voids prior to grouting and cast in place. I wanted to avoid plumbing supply lines in the exterior walls (when designing for wood frame) to avoid the need for freeze protection. That is no longer an issue with the block, but I still think using the crawl space and interior walls will be easier. I believe that cutting channels for plumbing would also require covering the voids with Sheetrock instead of being able to apply plaster directly to the block surface which I hope to do.

Crawl space code is 18” minimum for the subfloor and 12” minimum for the girders. My “high” corner will be close to that minimum without excavation, but there is no plumbing in that part of the house. The plumbed areas have more like 22”+ from the soil to the subfloor, and my “low” corner will be 36”. I would like more space, but my plan is to step the footing and foundation wall to save on materials and excavation. I also don’t really want to raise the floor any higher because I am planning the floor level earth-filled porch along the south wall. More height=LOTS of fill and more steps to enter the home. Right now the finished floor height is being dictated by crawl space minimum, and keeping the crawl space vent openings a minimum of 8” above grade at my high corner. At any rate, with some wiggling around I will be able to run my plumbing and wiring throughout the house after the walls and subfloor are built.

 

[ArdWrknTrk]

Jim, I agree that the synthesizer soundtrack and power-point-like production leaves a lot to be desired... but it does give a visual overview of the product. The fire rating was tested by a company called Intertek using methods described in the ASTM E119. The summary of the test report is provided within the Perfect Block ICC Equivalent Product Compliance Report here:

https://theperfectblock.com/wp-content/themes/perfect-block/app/assets/downloads/ebs-products-icc-equivalent-compliance-criteria-with-test-tesults-4-6-2018.pdf.

The technology has been around long enough, (between this manufacturer and many others) that I think it is trustworthy. The perfect block is just the closest to me, and some of the other companies make much larger blocks that require multiple people or machines to lift and place them.

Gary, the wire can be either in conduit or run directly into the saw cut channels. One can inset PEX or other pipe systems if desired. If the pipe diameter is greater than 2” such as a toilet vent, then the pipe must be placed in one of the block voids prior to grouting and cast in place. I wanted to avoid plumbing supply lines in the exterior walls (when designing for wood frame) to avoid the need for freeze protection. That is no longer an issue with the block, but I still think using the crawl space and interior walls will be easier. I believe that cutting channels for plumbing would also require covering the voids with Sheetrock instead of being able to apply plaster directly to the block surface which I hope to do.

Crawl space code is 18” minimum for the subfloor and 12” minimum for the girders. My “high” corner will be close to that minimum without excavation, but there is no plumbing in that part of the house. The plumbed areas have more like 22”+ from the soil to the subfloor, and my “low” corner will be 36”. I would like more space, but my plan is to step the footing and foundation wall to save on materials and excavation. I also don’t really want to raise the floor any higher because I am planning the floor level earth-filled porch along the south wall. More height=LOTS of fill and more steps to enter the home. Right now the finished floor height is being dictated by crawl space minimum, and keeping the crawl space vent openings a minimum of 8” above grade at my high corner. At any rate, with some wiggling around I will be able to run my plumbing and wiring throughout the house after the walls and subfloor are built.

I'm not suggesting that the product won't stand up.

I'm saying if the product is really right you don't have to sensationalize and misrepresent.

Is a propane flame 4,000 DEGREES!!! ?

In a perfect world it can get to 3,980F. But a $10 torch from cheapo depot... 2,300 is way closer to reality.

And that's just fine to sweat a pipe or meet whatever fire rating. (4hrs?)

Which is what the testing laboratory certified.

I don't play well with car salesmen, circus barkers and reality show personalities.

I've recently mentioned one automotive youtuber who I hope dies in a fiery wreck, mostly because of his loud mouth, sensationalism and straw man arguments.

Just because I wouldn't pee on these people if they were truly on fire doesn't mean you shouldn't use them.

If it's the best game in your town, do you really have a choice?

I'm excited to see your project as it progresses!

[Gary Lewis]

Jim, I agree that the synthesizer soundtrack and power-point-like production leaves a lot to be desired... but it does give a visual overview of the product. The fire rating was tested by a company called Intertek using methods described in the ASTM E119. The summary of the test report is provided within the Perfect Block ICC Equivalent Product Compliance Report here:

https://theperfectblock.com/wp-content/themes/perfect-block/app/assets/downloads/ebs-products-icc-equivalent-compliance-criteria-with-test-tesults-4-6-2018.pdf.

The technology has been around long enough, (between this manufacturer and many others) that I think it is trustworthy. The perfect block is just the closest to me, and some of the other companies make much larger blocks that require multiple people or machines to lift and place them.

Gary, the wire can be either in conduit or run directly into the saw cut channels. One can inset PEX or other pipe systems if desired. If the pipe diameter is greater than 2” such as a toilet vent, then the pipe must be placed in one of the block voids prior to grouting and cast in place. I wanted to avoid plumbing supply lines in the exterior walls (when designing for wood frame) to avoid the need for freeze protection. That is no longer an issue with the block, but I still think using the crawl space and interior walls will be easier. I believe that cutting channels for plumbing would also require covering the voids with Sheetrock instead of being able to apply plaster directly to the block surface which I hope to do.

Crawl space code is 18” minimum for the subfloor and 12” minimum for the girders. My “high” corner will be close to that minimum without excavation, but there is no plumbing in that part of the house. The plumbed areas have more like 22”+ from the soil to the subfloor, and my “low” corner will be 36”. I would like more space, but my plan is to step the footing and foundation wall to save on materials and excavation. I also don’t really want to raise the floor any higher because I am planning the floor level earth-filled porch along the south wall. More height=LOTS of fill and more steps to enter the home. Right now the finished floor height is being dictated by crawl space minimum, and keeping the crawl space vent openings a minimum of 8” above grade at my high corner. At any rate, with some wiggling around I will be able to run my plumbing and wiring throughout the house after the walls and subfloor are built.

Jonathan - I think you'll be fine with those dimensions. You should be able to do your wiring and plumbing. And you are thinking through where you put the plumbing. I like that.

[Ford F834]

Jonathan - I think you'll be fine with those dimensions. You should be able to do your wiring and plumbing. And you are thinking through where you put the plumbing. I like that.

Jim, I guess I never read that deep into the blow torch video. It is something they do at their trade shows to demonstrate ‘hey this stuff doesn’t burn’. It is a common concern, because several people that I’ve told about the block ask right off the bat ‘isn’t it flammable?’. Based on the common observation of what happens to a foam cup when you toss it in a camp fire I can see why they do this.

Gary, I have tried to give ample thought to the plumbing and electrical routing. I’m unhappy with the long hot water run to the master bath but it is a layout compromise I must make while considering privacy, access, window ventilation, ceiling heights in each room, and what views are featured out of each window.

My last big piece of the puzzle is the HVAC design. I realize I have not given this nearly enough consideration. Adding to the cooling dilemma is the fact that ICCF are extremely air tight and I really need to think through fresh air ventilation as well as cooling. There is a lot of negative feedback on mini splits, and if I want ducts now is the time to make that decision and design them in. The research continues... 🧐

[Rembrant]

Jim, I guess I never read that deep into the blow torch video. It is something they do at their trade shows to demonstrate ‘hey this stuff doesn’t burn’. It is a common concern, because several people that I’ve told about the block ask right off the bat ‘isn’t it flammable?’. Based on the common observation of what happens to a foam cup when you toss it in a camp fire I can see why they do this.

Gary, I have tried to give ample thought to the plumbing and electrical routing. I’m unhappy with the long hot water run to the master bath but it is a layout compromise I must make while considering privacy, access, window ventilation, ceiling heights in each room, and what views are featured out of each window.

My last big piece of the puzzle is the HVAC design. I realize I have not given this nearly enough consideration. Adding to the cooling dilemma is the fact that ICCF are extremely air tight and I really need to think through fresh air ventilation as well as cooling. There is a lot of negative feedback on mini splits, and if I want ducts now is the time to make that decision and design them in. The research continues... 🧐

Welcome back Jon! I can’t help with the house stuff but I’ll follow along:)

[Gary Lewis]

Jim, I guess I never read that deep into the blow torch video. It is something they do at their trade shows to demonstrate ‘hey this stuff doesn’t burn’. It is a common concern, because several people that I’ve told about the block ask right off the bat ‘isn’t it flammable?’. Based on the common observation of what happens to a foam cup when you toss it in a camp fire I can see why they do this.

Gary, I have tried to give ample thought to the plumbing and electrical routing. I’m unhappy with the long hot water run to the master bath but it is a layout compromise I must make while considering privacy, access, window ventilation, ceiling heights in each room, and what views are featured out of each window.

My last big piece of the puzzle is the HVAC design. I realize I have not given this nearly enough consideration. Adding to the cooling dilemma is the fact that ICCF are extremely air tight and I really need to think through fresh air ventilation as well as cooling. There is a lot of negative feedback on mini splits, and if I want ducts now is the time to make that decision and design them in. The research continues... 🧐

How about a point-of-use water heater? I'd much prefer that over the long run we have from the gas-fired heater in the garage. In fact, we've considered installing one in our bathroom for the lavatories, not the tub.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Jim, I guess I never read that deep into the blow torch video. It is something they do at their trade shows to demonstrate ‘hey this stuff doesn’t burn’. It is a common concern, because several people that I’ve told about the block ask right off the bat ‘isn’t it flammable?’. Based on the common observation of what happens to a foam cup when you toss it in a camp fire I can see why they do this.

Gary, I have tried to give ample thought to the plumbing and electrical routing. I’m unhappy with the long hot water run to the master bath but it is a layout compromise I must make while considering privacy, access, window ventilation, ceiling heights in each room, and what views are featured out of each window.

My last big piece of the puzzle is the HVAC design. I realize I have not given this nearly enough consideration. Adding to the cooling dilemma is the fact that ICCF are extremely air tight and I really need to think through fresh air ventilation as well as cooling. There is a lot of negative feedback on mini splits, and if I want ducts now is the time to make that decision and design them in. The research continues... 🧐

If you have a means to dig you should really look into a Ground Source Heat Pump.

They can cool or heat at up to 5X their energy input, and you have no lack of thermal delta out in the desert.

You're obviously going to need a Heat Recovery Ventilator.

Getting enough air changes per hour without one would be crazy.

It is just me. Like I said.

Hype is a thing these days. But I'm not buying.

Tell me what it is. Don't feed me manure.

When something in the first three minutes not only sticks to my boot but splatters on my leg.... I walk the other direction.

I can't say a thing good or bad about the product or services.

But a buffoon with a loud voice is not getting me to part with my money, no matter what.

[Ford F834]

If you have a means to dig you should really look into a Ground Source Heat Pump.

They can cool or heat at up to 5X their energy input, and you have no lack of thermal delta out in the desert.

You're obviously going to need a Heat Recovery Ventilator.

Getting enough air changes per hour without one would be crazy.

It is just me. Like I said.

Hype is a thing these days. But I'm not buying.

Tell me what it is. Don't feed me manure.

When something in the first three minutes not only sticks to my boot but splatters on my leg.... I walk the other direction.

I can't say a thing good or bad about the product or services.

But a buffoon with a loud voice is not getting me to part with my money, no matter what.

Gary, I may have to run a tankless propane water heater for the master bath because of the whirlpool tub. We already have the tub and the tankless heater right now. I hate it (the tankless heater). For whatever reason, if the tub is filling and you use the sink (hot or cold), even just a quick spurt to rinse your fingers etc., the hot water heater throws a flame out code and runs cold. You have to shut all valves and try again. I thought maybe it was due to our fairly low water pressure, but the pressure fluctuates between pump cycles and that never results in a flame out. Running a tablespoon of water out of the sink shouldn’t drop the pressure more than the range built into the pressure switch. I’ve gone though all of the manuals and troubleshooting literature and can’t figure it out. I’ve never been very happy with the maximum temperature output either, but it is doing the job for now. It was not a cheap unit either... it’s about a $600 Rennai. I would like to get away from tankless and just have one good electric tank heater for the home. Maybe a point of use for the sink and let the water run to temp for the tub and shower... the tub isn’t enormous for a corner whirlpool, it holds 73 gallons to the overflow. Typically we only fill it part way and the lower oval basin is about like any other tub. But my wife is a hard working RN who is suffering from rheumatoid arthritis and it’s getting worse quickly. A hot messaging tub that works right is a must.

Jim, I will have to look into the GSHP in more depth. At first blush it seems prohibitively expensive, but I don’t know exactly what I would need. It definitely pays dividends in the long run, and it looks like there are some Federal tax incentives in place through January 2022. Digging is pretty difficult here... there is a LOT of rock in these alluvial soils. I assume these systems are beyond backhoe depth? Seems like most of the install companies are drill operations.

[Gary Lewis]

Gary, I may have to run a tankless propane water heater for the master bath because of the whirlpool tub. We already have the tub and the tankless heater right now. I hate it (the tankless heater). For whatever reason, if the tub is filling and you use the sink (hot or cold), even just a quick spurt to rinse your fingers etc., the hot water heater throws a flame out code and runs cold. You have to shut all valves and try again. I thought maybe it was due to our fairly low water pressure, but the pressure fluctuates between pump cycles and that never results in a flame out. Running a tablespoon of water out of the sink shouldn’t drop the pressure more than the range built into the pressure switch. I’ve gone though all of the manuals and troubleshooting literature and can’t figure it out. I’ve never been very happy with the maximum temperature output either, but it is doing the job for now. It was not a cheap unit either... it’s about a $600 Rennai. I would like to get away from tankless and just have one good electric tank heater for the home. Maybe a point of use for the sink and let the water run to temp for the tub and shower... the tub isn’t enormous for a corner whirlpool, it holds 73 gallons to the overflow. Typically we only fill it part way and the lower oval basin is about like any other tub. But my wife is a hard working RN who is suffering from rheumatoid arthritis and it’s getting worse quickly. A hot messaging tub that works right is a must.

Jim, I will have to look into the GSHP in more depth. At first blush it seems prohibitively expensive, but I don’t know exactly what I would need. It definitely pays dividends in the long run, and it looks like there are some Federal tax incentives in place through January 2022. Digging is pretty difficult here... there is a LOT of rock in these alluvial soils. I assume these systems are beyond backhoe depth? Seems like most of the install companies are drill operations.

Jonathan - It is a shame the heater is doing that. But what you are talking about in a standard tank-type heater for the tub and a tankless heater for the sinks is what I'd like to have for our house. Just a small tankless would do for us and eliminate a whole lot of wasted "hot" water, meaning it was once hot but has to be run out to get to truly hot water.