ArdWrknTrk Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 Yes, welcome back! That sure looks like a lot of WORK! But it is coming along nicely. I think I understand most of what you said, but want to confirm - the "ledgers" are the 2x6's I see bolted on? And you'll put the floor on them? Right. Technically a ledger is a wall cleat that supports another member from below. But in this case it appears that Jonathan is using a colloquialism. Joist hangers will probably be attached and the floor framing flush with the ledger. This provides perimeter support for the subfloor as well as an attachment for the joists. https://www.hunker.com/13401465/ledger-strip-vs-joist-hangers I should probably not put words in his mouth. Go back and look at the section drawing showing the heights in the basement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 Right. Technically a ledger is a wall cleat that supports another member from below. But in this case it appears that Jonathan is using a colloquialism. Joist hangers will probably be attached and the floor framing flush with the ledger. This provides perimeter support for the subfloor as well as an attachment for the joists. https://www.hunker.com/13401465/ledger-strip-vs-joist-hangers I should probably not put words in his mouth. Go back and look at the section drawing showing the heights in the basement. That helps, thanks. And I do see the detail. So it now makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford F834 Posted February 4 Author Share Posted February 4 That helps, thanks. And I do see the detail. So it now makes sense. Thanks gentlemen. Jim, you are correct… the ‘ledgers’ are what the manuals call them for EF Block and The Perfect Block, but the joists will be face mounted with hangers. That cross section is from my first design, but the floor system for my permitted one is similar. Jim, the block literature talks about aggregate separation but also says to limit pour height to ~5ft to prevent blow-outs, especially anywhere the blocks are cut to fit the design and are not full strength. I am hoping the all-thread will mostly suppprt my ledgers. I will have 3 all-thread rods through each 8ft section of ledger. I can brace underneath them, but angled support probably won’t work since the walls will have to be poured from inside and they could easily get knocked down by the hose or workers grouting the pour. Depending on the time of year, I might pay the extra cost for plywood subfloor instead of OSB. It is twice the cost, but it’s a long haul to get dried in. We get a spat of winter storms, and variable monsoon season July-September. It’s the Mojave desert, so moisture isn’t a huge problem, but water and sun exposure isn’t kind to OSB. I would want to be pretty confident that I would miss all or most of any rainy season before drying in. This is a new year, with a new allotment of vacation days and sick leave. Wish me luck. Gotta strap on my boots and go finish that parge coat. I’m on the downhill slide! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford F834 Posted April 3 Author Share Posted April 3 Thanks gentlemen. Jim, you are correct… the ‘ledgers’ are what the manuals call them for EF Block and The Perfect Block, but the joists will be face mounted with hangers. That cross section is from my first design, but the floor system for my permitted one is similar. Jim, the block literature talks about aggregate separation but also says to limit pour height to ~5ft to prevent blow-outs, especially anywhere the blocks are cut to fit the design and are not full strength. I am hoping the all-thread will mostly suppprt my ledgers. I will have 3 all-thread rods through each 8ft section of ledger. I can brace underneath them, but angled support probably won’t work since the walls will have to be poured from inside and they could easily get knocked down by the hose or workers grouting the pour. Depending on the time of year, I might pay the extra cost for plywood subfloor instead of OSB. It is twice the cost, but it’s a long haul to get dried in. We get a spat of winter storms, and variable monsoon season July-September. It’s the Mojave desert, so moisture isn’t a huge problem, but water and sun exposure isn’t kind to OSB. I would want to be pretty confident that I would miss all or most of any rainy season before drying in. This is a new year, with a new allotment of vacation days and sick leave. Wish me luck. Gotta strap on my boots and go finish that parge coat. I’m on the downhill slide! Spring has been slow for house progress. I lost weekends from being sick, wet weather, and other eventualities like failed axle shafts on my Jetta. But I keep chipping at it. Some work like manually bucketing dirt over the wall to backfill the foundation trench is brutal yet does not feel or look like much progress (but my back says otherwise!) and it all needs done. My wife saw me struggling with chronically misplaced tools and supplies, stuffing things into vehicles to get them out of the rain. I was generally going out of my mind with disorganization so she ordered me a portable shed building and shop tool box as a valentine gift. She really is the best! I have yet to transfer everything into it but relief is here… Easter weekend I cut, fitted and dry stacked two more courses of EF block, totaling 8’ above the footing. This is pour height for the first two lifts. I am almost there. I need to glue the block, install another run of rebar, buck the door openings and cut in a few more pass-throughs for utilities. The block is too high for a scaffold bridge so I had to stack temporary cinder block steps to be able to get in. Pretty soon it will be time to call the cement truck and pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 Spring has been slow for house progress. I lost weekends from being sick, wet weather, and other eventualities like failed axle shafts on my Jetta. But I keep chipping at it. Some work like manually bucketing dirt over the wall to backfill the foundation trench is brutal yet does not feel or look like much progress (but my back says otherwise!) and it all needs done. My wife saw me struggling with chronically misplaced tools and supplies, stuffing things into vehicles to get them out of the rain. I was generally going out of my mind with disorganization so she ordered me a portable shed building and shop tool box as a valentine gift. She really is the best! I have yet to transfer everything into it but relief is here… Easter weekend I cut, fitted and dry stacked two more courses of EF block, totaling 8’ above the footing. This is pour height for the first two lifts. I am almost there. I need to glue the block, install another run of rebar, buck the door openings and cut in a few more pass-throughs for utilities. The block is too high for a scaffold bridge so I had to stack temporary cinder block steps to be able to get in. Pretty soon it will be time to call the cement truck and pump. Progress!!! Sorry you've been ill, but I hope you are over it and hitting it full steam. And it is always great to have someone looking out for you. Glad you have her. Hope she is doing better. So is there just one pour? When it is done you put the superstructure, if that's what its called, on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford F834 Posted April 3 Author Share Posted April 3 Progress!!! Sorry you've been ill, but I hope you are over it and hitting it full steam. And it is always great to have someone looking out for you. Glad you have her. Hope she is doing better. So is there just one pour? When it is done you put the superstructure, if that's what its called, on? There will be two grout pours. The preferred technique is to build the wall in stages if it is going to be taller than 10 feet. The first 5 feet of wall for me is essentially the foundation/stem wall for the crawl space. The floor level will be at the top of the brown ledger boards visible on the inside walls. At 8 feet the walls are just below window height. This is where I stop for now. Once this is poured, I will build the floor and continue with the block. I don’t like the idea of having my subfloor exposed that long, but it really is the safest way to proceed with putting up block and having it to stand on for the second grout pour. In fact this is probably the only way without having elaborate fall protection. The peak of my high wall is about 17 feet from the footing, and 12 feet ceiling height at the clerestory wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 There will be two grout pours. The preferred technique is to build the wall in stages if it is going to be taller than 10 feet. The first 5 feet of wall for me is essentially the foundation/stem wall for the crawl space. The floor level will be at the top of the brown ledger boards visible on the inside walls. At 8 feet the walls are just below window height. This is where I stop for now. Once this is poured, I will build the floor and continue with the block. I don’t like the idea of having my subfloor exposed that long, but it really is the safest way to proceed with putting up block and having it to stand on for the second grout pour. In fact this is probably the only way without having elaborate fall protection. The peak of my high wall is about 17 feet from the footing, and 12 feet ceiling height at the clerestory wall. Building the floor system will also stabilize the walls you are pouring, but I suppose the grout will do that when it is set. Your wife is so thoughtful. Buy her a vacuum cleaner or skillet for Valentine's next year and see how that goes over. Do you need to keep the EF block moist after the pour? I have no idea about pouring concrete in the desert, but we used to cover slabs with burlap and plastic to keep them from drying out as they cured (this was long before plasticizers, high early and other additives other than calcium chloride for winter) I suppose another option is spraying the block with curing retardant, but -again- I'm no expert on concrete in the desert. I do like to learn all I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 There will be two grout pours. The preferred technique is to build the wall in stages if it is going to be taller than 10 feet. The first 5 feet of wall for me is essentially the foundation/stem wall for the crawl space. The floor level will be at the top of the brown ledger boards visible on the inside walls. At 8 feet the walls are just below window height. This is where I stop for now. Once this is poured, I will build the floor and continue with the block. I don’t like the idea of having my subfloor exposed that long, but it really is the safest way to proceed with putting up block and having it to stand on for the second grout pour. In fact this is probably the only way without having elaborate fall protection. The peak of my high wall is about 17 feet from the footing, and 12 feet ceiling height at the clerestory wall. Thanks for the explanation, Jonathan. I know you have told me before, but you also know how old I am, so... It sounds like you have it well planned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford F834 Posted April 3 Author Share Posted April 3 Thanks for the explanation, Jonathan. I know you have told me before, but you also know how old I am, so... It sounds like you have it well planned. Jim, the EF blocks do soak up some water ~eventually… as I found out from cutting some that were out in the rain, but they are not porous or water wicking the way CMU is. Spraying them isn’t necessary and probably wouldn’t do anything unless you saturated them repeatedly. Even 1 inch of rainfall over about 10 hours directly on the flat side of the block didn’t soak through the 2” insulating face. That’s good news for the cure rate for the grout inside. Gary your memory and amount of knowledge in your head is amazing. Don’t worry if your volume filter discards details about someone else’s house! 😁 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 Jim, the EF blocks do soak up some water ~eventually… as I found out from cutting some that were out in the rain, but they are not porous or water wicking the way CMU is. Spraying them isn’t necessary and probably wouldn’t do anything unless you saturated them repeatedly. Even 1 inch of rainfall over about 10 hours directly on the flat side of the block didn’t soak through the 2” insulating face. That’s good news for the cure rate for the grout inside. Gary your memory and amount of knowledge in your head is amazing. Don’t worry if your volume filter discards details about someone else’s house! 😁 Interesting! I've worked with ICF but never this stuff. Yeah, it would be a big problem with CMU's and desert wind. I imagine you'd need to wet them before grouting and cover them in a poly sheet for at least a few days.... You're doing great! Too bad you don't have a loader (or teenage son) to hump that backfill over the wall. Please keep us posted as things progress! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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