New Member New Build, looking for Direction

[Ford F834]

Well you've done it and I haven't, Jonathan!

Where did you get your Bullnose diesel cluster?

If wanting to do a monobeam 4x4 into an '85 2wd -plus- the diesel, would you still be willing to start with a 2wd 460?

If cab swapping a later truck that needed senders to work with the Bullnose dash???

I'm not saying a 6.9 or 7.3 won't get better mileage!

I'm saying a 4wd 460 will at best pick up a couple of mpg as a manual over the C6.

And I expect Gary is seeing about the limit with a fresh engine, good gears and a Zf-5.

The only unique thing(s) about a bullnose diesel cluster is the tach (if 85/86 and so equipped) and the “Diesel fuel Only” marking on the gauge face plate. That’s it. I’ve pulled a few at the junkyard. The tach can be a little tricky to find (hit or miss on eBay) but not terribly rare.

Wanting an IDI 4x4 and starting with a 460 2wd is two heavy strikes against it, but I guess it’s worthiness is subjective depending on how nice the truck is, and the availability of what you want to have... plus skill level and how much time you have to do it. One reason I might lean that way for a bullnose is that the 83/84 engines with the press-in oilers are not worth putting money into (my opinion) and there was no stock overdrive. The small segment of bolt in oiler Bullnise 6.9’s is slim, and I for one would really want overdrive. It’s likely you will end up neck deep in a project either way. One might get lucky and find just what you want with a good running IDI and the OD transmission already done, but it won’t be inexpensive. Demand on these is getting quite high.

Also, I assume you must live somewhere without emissions testing and having a diesel VIN for registration is irrelevant?

[Jbird2200]

The only unique thing(s) about a bullnose diesel cluster is the tach (if 85/86 and so equipped) and the “Diesel fuel Only” marking on the gauge face plate. That’s it. I’ve pulled a few at the junkyard. The tach can be a little tricky to find (hit or miss on eBay) but not terribly rare.

Wanting an IDI 4x4 and starting with a 460 2wd is two heavy strikes against it, but I guess it’s worthiness is subjective depending on how nice the truck is, and the availability of what you want to have... plus skill level and how much time you have to do it. One reason I might lean that way for a bullnose is that the 83/84 engines with the press-in oilers are not worth putting money into (my opinion) and there was no stock overdrive. The small segment of bolt in oiler Bullnise 6.9’s is slim, and I for one would really want overdrive. It’s likely you will end up neck deep in a project either way. One might get lucky and find just what you want with a good running IDI and the OD transmission already done, but it won’t be inexpensive. Demand on these is getting quite high.

Also, I assume you must live somewhere without emissions testing and having a diesel VIN for registration is irrelevant?

Good to hear that the dash/gauge issues are at least resolvable.

Yes, definitely two strikes, both of which are caused by my own personal preference. In all honesty, I did quite a bit of reading prior to purchasing the truck I have, but didn't quite take into considerations the issues of maintaining the original interior as much as possible. I'm not against custom gauges like I mentioned before, knowing that they aren't a cheap option, but if it means retaining the original interior as much as possible, so be it. I'm simply not a fan of the newer interiors. I bought the current truck because after a year of searching, anything with even remotely close body condition/paint/interior was selling for anywhere from $7-16k, and still weren't exactly the truck I wanted, so I figured I'd buy this one, and make what I want.

Regarding emissions/diesel VIN...non-issue, thanks to good ole' fashion Missouri ways.

Regarding the core support, I've seen a couple examples elsewhere where a bricknose core support was ultimately used with some massaging. I'll be looking more into that.

I have not explored the option of the RSK option...I'll look more into that tonight. I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to this being a two-part build, with the first being a drivetrain swap from a bricknose IDI ZF5 truck, then later an RSK for the 4x4 component. I would also retain the well preserved frame by going that route.

[Gary Lewis]

The only unique thing(s) about a bullnose diesel cluster is the tach (if 85/86 and so equipped) and the “Diesel fuel Only” marking on the gauge face plate. That’s it. I’ve pulled a few at the junkyard. The tach can be a little tricky to find (hit or miss on eBay) but not terribly rare.

Wanting an IDI 4x4 and starting with a 460 2wd is two heavy strikes against it, but I guess it’s worthiness is subjective depending on how nice the truck is, and the availability of what you want to have... plus skill level and how much time you have to do it. One reason I might lean that way for a bullnose is that the 83/84 engines with the press-in oilers are not worth putting money into (my opinion) and there was no stock overdrive. The small segment of bolt in oiler Bullnise 6.9’s is slim, and I for one would really want overdrive. It’s likely you will end up neck deep in a project either way. One might get lucky and find just what you want with a good running IDI and the OD transmission already done, but it won’t be inexpensive. Demand on these is getting quite high.

Also, I assume you must live somewhere without emissions testing and having a diesel VIN for registration is irrelevant?

Good to hear that the dash/gauge issues are at least resolvable.

Yes, definitely two strikes, both of which are caused by my own personal preference. In all honesty, I did quite a bit of reading prior to purchasing the truck I have, but didn't quite take into considerations the issues of maintaining the original interior as much as possible. I'm not against custom gauges like I mentioned before, knowing that they aren't a cheap option, but if it means retaining the original interior as much as possible, so be it. I'm simply not a fan of the newer interiors. I bought the current truck because after a year of searching, anything with even remotely close body condition/paint/interior was selling for anywhere from $7-16k, and still weren't exactly the truck I wanted, so I figured I'd buy this one, and make what I want.

Regarding emissions/diesel VIN...non-issue, thanks to good ole' fashion Missouri ways.

Regarding the core support, I've seen a couple examples elsewhere where a bricknose core support was ultimately used with some massaging. I'll be looking more into that.

I have not explored the option of the RSK option...I'll look more into that tonight. I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to this being a two-part build, with the first being a drivetrain swap from a bricknose IDI ZF5 truck, then later an RSK for the 4x4 component. I would also retain the well preserved frame by going that route.

You need to get Shaun/salans7 on here to discuss converting a 2wd F250 to 4wd. It isn't as easy as doing the same on an F150. I'll tag him.

[Jbird2200]

The main thing about doing a a 4x4 transformation on your existing chassis with a reverse shackle kit and a mono-beam axle is it offers vastly improved ride, strength, and handling compared to a leaf spring F250 twin traction beam axle. That design is not the best. So you are getting an entirely different result. RSK makers now offer kits that fit directly on the 1980-1991 frame horns, so fabrication is minimal. Gary has done this to Big Blue, he probably has a better handle on whether it is more or less work than a body swap.

If I'm looking at the right kit from Sky, it's around $600. I doubt I come by a SD axles for less than $500. So....am I safe to assume a 4x4 conversion is going to be roughly $2k in parts? Honestly, that seems reasonable, and would provide more benefit over just the 4x4 (ride, etc. as you mention). However, if I'm ok with the ride and design of a bricknose chassis 4x4, wouldn't it be a much more cost effective way to approach it just to swap the body? I'd still retain the option to do a shackle kit upgrade and axle upgrade in the future in the event I really did hate the ride that much.

Please correct me if my thinking is wrong here. Thanks again!

[Gary Lewis]

The main thing about doing a a 4x4 transformation on your existing chassis with a reverse shackle kit and a mono-beam axle is it offers vastly improved ride, strength, and handling compared to a leaf spring F250 twin traction beam axle. That design is not the best. So you are getting an entirely different result. RSK makers now offer kits that fit directly on the 1980-1991 frame horns, so fabrication is minimal. Gary has done this to Big Blue, he probably has a better handle on whether it is more or less work than a body swap.

If I'm looking at the right kit from Sky, it's around $600. I doubt I come by a SD axles for less than $500. So....am I safe to assume a 4x4 conversion is going to be roughly $2k in parts? Honestly, that seems reasonable, and would provide more benefit over just the 4x4 (ride, etc. as you mention). However, if I'm ok with the ride and design of a bricknose chassis 4x4, wouldn't it be a much more cost effective way to approach it just to swap the body? I'd still retain the option to do a shackle kit upgrade and axle upgrade in the future in the event I really did hate the ride that much.

Please correct me if my thinking is wrong here. Thanks again!

I paid a salvage $1225 for a D60 axle, panhard bar & bracket, brake calipers, shocks & towers, lockouts, rotors, & SuperDuty & F350 springs as well as about the front 1/4 of a frame. And the Sky kit I bought was their 85-91 Ford F-350 4x4 2" Front Shackle Reversal (Superduty Spring) and it was $995. Not saying that is what you need, but that's what I bought.

So if you are "ok with the ride and design of a bricknose chassis 4x4" then you'd be far ahead, money wise, to use it and do a body swap.

[Jbird2200]

You need to get Shaun/salans7 on here to discuss converting a 2wd F250 to 4wd. It isn't as easy as doing the same on an F150. I'll tag him.

Thanks Gary. The more I think about it, parts alone are probably going to be well north of the $2k I was originally thinking just for a conversion. If I truly want 4x4, I think I need to buy the 4x4 donor and do the body swap.

I just missed out last week on an 85' F250 6.9 T19 4x4 Ext Cab. That would have made this easier, but still no OD.

[Jbird2200]

I paid a salvage $1225 for a D60 axle, panhard bar & bracket, brake calipers, shocks & towers, lockouts, rotors, & SuperDuty & F350 springs as well as about the front 1/4 of a frame. And the Sky kit I bought was their 85-91 Ford F-350 4x4 2" Front Shackle Reversal (Superduty Spring) and it was $995. Not saying that is what you need, but that's what I bought.

So if you are "ok with the ride and design of a bricknose chassis 4x4" then you'd be far ahead, money wise, to use it and do a body swap.

Thanks for that. I don't doubt for one second that the RKS setup and SD axle conversion is a superior option, but for my purposes, and what this truck will be used for, I don't know that it is a reasonable option to me at this moment. And again, if I'm wrong there, the worst case scenario would be I have a "phase II" of my project and do a RKS on a bricknose. The difference in cost would be at the cost of the donor I'm searching for now, and I don't think its a matter of cost as much as it is just finding the right truck/configuration.

[Gary Lewis]

I paid a salvage $1225 for a D60 axle, panhard bar & bracket, brake calipers, shocks & towers, lockouts, rotors, & SuperDuty & F350 springs as well as about the front 1/4 of a frame. And the Sky kit I bought was their 85-91 Ford F-350 4x4 2" Front Shackle Reversal (Superduty Spring) and it was $995. Not saying that is what you need, but that's what I bought.

So if you are "ok with the ride and design of a bricknose chassis 4x4" then you'd be far ahead, money wise, to use it and do a body swap.

Thanks for that. I don't doubt for one second that the RKS setup and SD axle conversion is a superior option, but for my purposes, and what this truck will be used for, I don't know that it is a reasonable option to me at this moment. And again, if I'm wrong there, the worst case scenario would be I have a "phase II" of my project and do a RKS on a bricknose. The difference in cost would be at the cost of the donor I'm searching for now, and I don't think its a matter of cost as much as it is just finding the right truck/configuration.

I would be looking for an '86 or later F350 4wd. That will come with the D60 where an F250 will get you the TTBs. But note that it needs to be an '86 or later as the '85 F350s had TTBs.

And I think you want single rear wheel (SRW) not dual rear wheel (DRW).

[ArdWrknTrk]

I would be looking for an '86 or later F350 4wd. That will come with the D60 where an F250 will get you the TTBs. But note that it needs to be an '86 or later as the '85 F350s had TTBs.

And I think you want single rear wheel (SRW) not dual rear wheel (DRW).

I certainly wasn't meaning to say it can't be done, or you haven't an idea what you're asking.

Decide exactly what you want, what you need, and what the purpose is.

If you have an inkling of fuel mileage, stay the heck away from a 460.

Gary is a prime example of what will happen with mission creep.

And a big reason why I suggested starting with something much closer to what you say you want.

Don't get caught out by the sunk cost fallacy.

As he said an '86 diesel 4X4 350 means you will have the right interior, ratios, suspension, radiator support, exhaust, batteries and harness, fuel system, clutch pedal, etc.

A Zf-5 into that is only a $1,200 chunk and a clutch.

I have a 250 4X4 (with 4.10's, which is NOT what you want with a heavy low revving engine)

I pushed Gary towards a SAS RSK while he had the engine out being built.

Because after 35 years of ownership I knew how bad TTB was to keep aligned, how rough the ride is, how poor the turning radius is...

Once you get into a Bricknose or later truck a lot of little things like senders and fitting a front bumper pop up.

Yeah just a few hundred, or a few hours with a torch and welder.

Sure you can add a few inches drop to the radiator support. But then you need the right fan shroud, the radiator itself, while you are at the radiator support let's take care of the front bumper, the second battery tray, the air cleaner ducting, and the front harness connecting up the charging system.

None of which are easy to find cheap.

But it all takes time and money.

After a while its death by a thousand cuts.

You're bled dry. You're still looking for parts that don't exist. And you still don't have the truck you want.

Gary's "Dad's Truck" is an homage to a man.

It is a decade in the planning, the making and it still isn't done.

While it isn't ever going to be a tow rig or weekend warrior, it is a restomod based on a paternal experience.

[Jbird2200]

I would be looking for an '86 or later F350 4wd. That will come with the D60 where an F250 will get you the TTBs. But note that it needs to be an '86 or later as the '85 F350s had TTBs.

And I think you want single rear wheel (SRW) not dual rear wheel (DRW).

Thanks guys.

I understand a 86' F350 SRW 4x4 6.9 Extended Cab truck would be the unicorn for this project, but I've yet to see one.

Gary, if you don't mind me asking, all other things considered, and knowing that the 86' described above will be VERY difficult to find, are there any glaring differences I'm not thinking of that would limit my search to any more restrictive than 86-94.5? The bricknose option, while requiring more work, is likely going to be what is readily available. Going back to the need to keep the current interior, I'm not sure if there were any glaring differences among bricknose F-350s that would make any years better than others.

As far as the dash goes, I've emailed a couple of the previously mentioned companies that make retrofitted gauges and haven't received a response. I'll be calling this week to try to get more info.

I get what you're all saying regarding scope creep and having a project bleed me dry and appreciate the advice.