Help On 3G Page

[ArdWrknTrk]

OK guys, time for me to quit as my head hurts. Not sure how much is the COVID shot and how much is due to beating it against the proverbial brick wall of Weebly.

But, please review what I've done, and remind me later that the Choosing An Alternator tab needs lots of work, especially re clocking.

Anyway, I think these things may be done:

• Wiring It tab and then the 3G Harness tab. Pretty much a carry over from the previous page, but may need some formatting.

• Wiring It/Circuit Protection: Ditto above, a carryover

• Wiring It/2G Wiring Changes/Keep Shunt: This is John's scenario and I think it is pretty close. However, it certainly isn't done with respect to the voltmeter. And here's my problem - there are two ways to solve this. One is to leave the R/O wire connected to the shunt @ S203 and then ground the Y/LG wire with a relay pulled in by the stator wire or the LG/R wire. This would serve all situations. Or, we could suggest that those that have the 351HO use the choke relay. So, do we have two scenarios? I'm inclined to say we forget the choke relay and recommend everyone use a relay to ground the voltmeter.

Thoughts, please!

My truck came with a voltmeter so I can't have an opinion on this.

But I will say that alternator output is critical to having balanced battery.

[Gary Lewis]

My truck came with a voltmeter so I can't have an opinion on this.

But I will say that alternator output is critical to having balanced battery.

Could you explain that, please?

I understand that your truck came with a voltmeter, but why can't you have an opinion?

And what's this about balancing a battery?

[ArdWrknTrk]

My truck came with a voltmeter so I can't have an opinion on this.

But I will say that alternator output is critical to having balanced battery.

Could you explain that, please?

I understand that your truck came with a voltmeter, but why can't you have an opinion?

And what's this about balancing a battery?

My truck doesn't show discharge v/ charge, it only shows what is available now.

If that's not enough to keep the battery charged, then it failed.

Q

 

[Gary Lewis]

My truck doesn't show discharge v/ charge, it only shows what is available now.

If that's not enough to keep the battery charged, then it failed.

Q

Ah! Ok. Thanks for the explanation.

Still, I'm looking for any input I can get on what is out there. Hello?

[Machspeed]

Ah! Ok. Thanks for the explanation.

Still, I'm looking for any input I can get on what is out there. Hello?

I can't seem to get back in it, having skimmed it briefly before the game started.

[Gary Lewis]

I can't seem to get back in it, having skimmed it briefly before the game started.

I'm in: http://www.garysgaragemahal.com/3g-conversion---in-development.html

 

[85lebaront2]

I'm in: http://www.garysgaragemahal.com/3g-conversion---in-development.html

Looks good so far sir.

Voltmeter vs Ammeter - Voltmeter displays the system voltage as available at the ignition switch, normal is 13.8-14.5 for a good alternator, battery voltage at key on should be a bit over 12 (keep in mind (a) these are approximate and (b) these gauges are not precision). Once the engine is started the voltage should come up to above 12, preferably around 13, depending on state of charge, amount of cranking and on a Diesel how long the glow plugs were/are on, the voltage will drop each time they cycle the voltage may not jump up at once. Some alternators have a "soft start" regulator to keep from slipping the belt due to a sudden load.

If the belt breaks, alternator stops charging or a fusible link or fuse protecting the alternator fails, the voltmeter will show a drop in the voltage (at night your lights will get dimmer).

Ammeter, in the real world an ammeter would show (and Chrysler's did) power into or out of the battery, however, high loads such as the heater/AC blower on high will show as an increased charge rate, but it isn't, it is showing how much of the alternator output is running the blower. On older vehicles with generators, you would see the meter go to discharge at stoplights, and if the voltage regulator stuck, it would go way into discharge.

Because alternators will charge fairly well at idle, automakers decided that a voltmeter is a better indicator of correct function than an ammeter, however for most uses, the simple "charge indicator" light is adequate, because if it stays on, you have a problem, but on some vehicles a burned out bulb can result in a "no charge" condition.

[JimsRebel]

Ah! Ok. Thanks for the explanation.

Still, I'm looking for any input I can get on what is out there. Hello?

I Think the Volt Meter should be a separate issue, and not tied to the ALT swap. It really a personal choice as to where you want to monitor the voltage, Battery or Fuse box, for example. It's really just 2 wires to connect, power and ground.

Also I really don't understand the reason for using ... Volt Meter Relay, energized by the stator output.

So if the ALT fails the voltmeter quits working? This is when you really need it to work, to figure out how much farther you can drive before the engine quits. You also can not check battery voltage before starting, or during cranking the engine over.

Regarding the AMP meter:

Even when it work like new, it was really useless. Do you really think you would notice a slow "needle deflection" to the left when on a long freeway drive, (daylight hours). After cruising on the freeway for 2 hours you make a "pit stop" to pee, only then do you realize you have a dead battery.

Also wiring mods, like headlight relays, mess with a correct AMP Meter reading. I sourced the power for my headlight relays of the battery side of the starter solenoid. Turning ON the headlights draw amps through the SHUNT (same as if you were charging the battery) causing the needle to move to the CHARGE direction.

So I turn ON the head lights, needle moves 5 amps in the charge direction. Then the ALT fails, I have a 5 amp load (IGN + misc stuff), needle then moves back to -5 amps, and doesn't include the headlight amp draw.

Point is, I really don't think I AMP meter is worth trying to save.

JIm #2

[Gary Lewis]

Looks good so far sir.

Voltmeter vs Ammeter - Voltmeter displays the system voltage as available at the ignition switch, normal is 13.8-14.5 for a good alternator, battery voltage at key on should be a bit over 12 (keep in mind (a) these are approximate and (b) these gauges are not precision). Once the engine is started the voltage should come up to above 12, preferably around 13, depending on state of charge, amount of cranking and on a Diesel how long the glow plugs were/are on, the voltage will drop each time they cycle the voltage may not jump up at once. Some alternators have a "soft start" regulator to keep from slipping the belt due to a sudden load.

If the belt breaks, alternator stops charging or a fusible link or fuse protecting the alternator fails, the voltmeter will show a drop in the voltage (at night your lights will get dimmer).

Ammeter, in the real world an ammeter would show (and Chrysler's did) power into or out of the battery, however, high loads such as the heater/AC blower on high will show as an increased charge rate, but it isn't, it is showing how much of the alternator output is running the blower. On older vehicles with generators, you would see the meter go to discharge at stoplights, and if the voltage regulator stuck, it would go way into discharge.

Because alternators will charge fairly well at idle, automakers decided that a voltmeter is a better indicator of correct function than an ammeter, however for most uses, the simple "charge indicator" light is adequate, because if it stays on, you have a problem, but on some vehicles a burned out bulb can result in a "no charge" condition.

Thanks, Bill.

But on the voltage being measured, we are recommending that they measure battery voltage not ignition switch voltage. If you look at the schematic the voltmeter has its positive leg tied to the fuse link that drops onto the starter relay's battery post.

Jim, Scott, and I had a discussion about it a few days ago. Scott had a good idea that we could use the LG/R wire that is coming from the ignition switch to run the voltmeter, and while that will work Jim and I convinced him that it is better to know the voltage at the battery rather than in the cab since the latter will vary by what is turned on.

I've enjoyed watching the voltage on Big Blue now that I have the 3G. There are times when I've had the lights on in the cab and the underhood light on for days working on it and the battery is down a bit. When I start it the voltage goes to a bit over the top line on the Rocketman voltmeter, which is about 14.4v. But as the day goes on I can see the regulator cut that back to just under 14v. So I know the battery is fully charged.

And, I can see the same thing on the aux battery voltmeter, which has a 270 degree sweep and has numbers on the scale. So I know that both batteries are getting fully charged and all is well with the charging system.

[Gary Lewis]

I Think the Volt Meter should be a separate issue, and not tied to the ALT swap. It really a personal choice as to where you want to monitor the voltage, Battery or Fuse box, for example. It's really just 2 wires to connect, power and ground.

Also I really don't understand the reason for using ... Volt Meter Relay, energized by the stator output.

So if the ALT fails the voltmeter quits working? This is when you really need it to work, to figure out how much farther you can drive before the engine quits. You also can not check battery voltage before starting, or during cranking the engine over.

Regarding the AMP meter:

Even when it work like new, it was really useless. Do you really think you would notice a slow "needle deflection" to the left when on a long freeway drive, (daylight hours). After cruising on the freeway for 2 hours you make a "pit stop" to pee, only then do you realize you have a dead battery.

Also wiring mods, like headlight relays, mess with a correct AMP Meter reading. I sourced the power for my headlight relays of the battery side of the starter solenoid. Turning ON the headlights draw amps through the SHUNT (same as if you were charging the battery) causing the needle to move to the CHARGE direction.

So I turn ON the head lights, needle moves 5 amps in the charge direction. Then the ALT fails, I have a 5 amp load (IGN + misc stuff), needle then moves back to -5 amps, and doesn't include the headlight amp draw.

Point is, I really don't think I AMP meter is worth trying to save.

JIm #2

Jim - You have a very valid point about pulling the relay in with the stator! I hadn't thought of that, but it is a bad idea. Thanks!

And, I think I agree with you on the voltmeter wiring being a personal decision. My problem is how to show that on the page that we have? If I could figure that out I'd happily address it on the Voltmeter tab and give the people several options. That way we won't have to address it in each of the scenarios.

As for the ammeter, I had roughly the same situation you described. Drove Dad's truck from here up to see him about 100 miles and we went out to eat that evening before I was to head home. That's when I realized that the lights were dim, and then the engine started to miss. Yep, the alternator had died early in the trip but there wasn't enough pull through the ammeter to see it without anything on in the cab.

So while the ammeter idea is good, the fact that you can't see small discharges isn't workable. If I'd had a voltmeter I'm sure I'd have seen it.