Gary Lewis Posted February 10, 2021 Author Share Posted February 10, 2021 But we need participation. The few of us here are not really representative of the intended audience for a tutorial. Amen, brother! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machspeed Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 Yes, it is easy enough to use the LG/R wire to pull the relay in, but I'm kind of liking the idea of having the voltmeter die if the alternator dies. That should tell you something, quickly. And yes, I understand that you and I don't think the same, nor do either of us tend to think like many others. But if we can get it down to two options then I can create those schematics. And these are now the two options I'm thinking of: Monitor Cab Voltage: Monitoring Battery Voltage: I'm now seeing two options, one for 351HO's and one for all others. But I'm now thinking they'll essentially be the same - a relay pulled in my the stator output. That makes things easier. As said on the tab for this, I'd really like to have someone tell us what the differences are between battery and in-cab voltages in various scenarios. This might help people make a decision of which approach to take. I think the best way to do that is connect a DVM's positive lead to the battery and the negative lead to the LG/R wire at the alternator. It really wouldn't matter too much if the truck has a 1G, 2G, or 3G alternator. I would do it but I have taken a lot of the load off the cab with the headlight and blower motor relays. So it would be best if someone that hasn't done those upgrades would check. Please? Ok fellas, was hoping to get out in the shop tonight but just got in from work....long day! Regardless, want to thank you two for your dedicated efforts in helping me with this. I am still waiting on a converted voltmeter and am uncertain as to when Rocketman will have it finished. That's another story. Right now my dash does have an ammeter in it, as I sent out another ammeter I had. Won't be hooking up the battery until I have everything installed. My desire is to cut up as little as possible yet get the most out of what I do. As I said earlier, wish to keep my connector on the opposite side of the alternator virgin, if possible. Don't care about the alternator side. I do not fear wiring if I know precisely where and what to connect. I can tell you, I prefer to measure battery voltage and I do have relays if I need to use them. If you will, point me in the best most logical direction and I will go that way? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 Ok fellas, was hoping to get out in the shop tonight but just got in from work....long day! Regardless, want to thank you two for your dedicated efforts in helping me with this. I am still waiting on a converted voltmeter and am uncertain as to when Rocketman will have it finished. That's another story. Right now my dash does have an ammeter in it, as I sent out another ammeter I had. Won't be hooking up the battery until I have everything installed. My desire is to cut up as little as possible yet get the most out of what I do. As I said earlier, wish to keep my connector on the opposite side of the alternator virgin, if possible. Don't care about the alternator side. I do not fear wiring if I know precisely where and what to connect. I can tell you, I prefer to measure battery voltage and I do have relays if I need to use them. If you will, point me in the best most logical direction and I will go that way? Thanks! John, according to the EVTM your 351 HO should already have a relay in place. Gary should know which wire is positive after the Rocketman conversion. It is fine to check voltage from the starter relay or the Megafuse. All the new cables you install will reflect what's up with the battery. My regulator pigtail has little raised LSA molded on it. But I don't know where Painless might source their parts, so have a look when you can? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted February 10, 2021 Author Share Posted February 10, 2021 Ok fellas, was hoping to get out in the shop tonight but just got in from work....long day! Regardless, want to thank you two for your dedicated efforts in helping me with this. I am still waiting on a converted voltmeter and am uncertain as to when Rocketman will have it finished. That's another story. Right now my dash does have an ammeter in it, as I sent out another ammeter I had. Won't be hooking up the battery until I have everything installed. My desire is to cut up as little as possible yet get the most out of what I do. As I said earlier, wish to keep my connector on the opposite side of the alternator virgin, if possible. Don't care about the alternator side. I do not fear wiring if I know precisely where and what to connect. I can tell you, I prefer to measure battery voltage and I do have relays if I need to use them. If you will, point me in the best most logical direction and I will go that way? Thanks! John - We are close to having agreement on what that should look like. All - Please help me think through this. On the 2G conversion I was saying that we can use the choke relay for the HO trucks or another relay for the non-HO trucks. BUT, what I'd forgotten is that the HO relay gives us the positive feed to the voltmeter and a standalone relay can either be the positive feed or the negative feed. So, thinking of the easiest way for people to do this, and the best way for us to explain it, I present two options. On the left is the way to use the HO's choke relay. Note that you have to change both the positive and the negative leads going to the voltmeter. On the right is using a new relay. Note that you do not have to change the positive side going to the voltmeter. You only have to change the negative side. I am wondering if we should recommend that the easiest way through this is to retain the shunt and keep the R/O wire connected to the starter relay to give the voltmeter battery voltage. Then use a relay to ground the voltmeter pulled in with the stator output. In other words, one solution for everyone. No using the LG/R wire to feed the voltmeter for some and a relay for others. No choke relay for the HO people. Just one solution that gives everyone a good solution. Thoughts, please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 John - We are close to having agreement on what that should look like. All - Please help me think through this. On the 2G conversion I was saying that we can use the choke relay for the HO trucks or another relay for the non-HO trucks. BUT, what I'd forgotten is that the HO relay gives us the positive feed to the voltmeter and a standalone relay can either be the positive feed or the negative feed. So, thinking of the easiest way for people to do this, and the best way for us to explain it, I present two options. On the left is the way to use the HO's choke relay. Note that you have to change both the positive and the negative leads going to the voltmeter. On the right is using a new relay. Note that you do not have to change the positive side going to the voltmeter. You only have to change the negative side. I am wondering if we should recommend that the easiest way through this is to retain the shunt and keep the R/O wire connected to the starter relay to give the voltmeter battery voltage. Then use a relay to ground the voltmeter pulled in with the stator output. In other words, one solution for everyone. No using the LG/R wire to feed the voltmeter for some and a relay for others. No choke relay for the HO people. Just one solution that gives everyone a good solution. Thoughts, please! :nabble_anim_confused: You've got me real confused here! An analog voltmeter will only read positive deflection using ONE polarity. But I don't even have a place for a converted ammeter so... What are you trying to show, and why are you trying to confuse something that should be as simple as possible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 :nabble_anim_confused: You've got me real confused here! An analog voltmeter will only read positive deflection using ONE polarity. But I don't even have a place for a converted ammeter so... What are you trying to show, and why are you trying to confuse something that should be as simple as possible? I mean, I get it. You're trying to create a switched path to ground. I guess I don't enough about the old ammeters to have an opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted February 10, 2021 Author Share Posted February 10, 2021 I mean, I get it. You're trying to create a switched path to ground. I guess I don't enough about the old ammeters to have an opinion. Yes. Either we switch the positive side or the negative side. If we switch the negative side then we can leave the positive wire alone. Seems like the easiest thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machspeed Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 John - We are close to having agreement on what that should look like. All - Please help me think through this. On the 2G conversion I was saying that we can use the choke relay for the HO trucks or another relay for the non-HO trucks. BUT, what I'd forgotten is that the HO relay gives us the positive feed to the voltmeter and a standalone relay can either be the positive feed or the negative feed. So, thinking of the easiest way for people to do this, and the best way for us to explain it, I present two options. On the left is the way to use the HO's choke relay. Note that you have to change both the positive and the negative leads going to the voltmeter. On the right is using a new relay. Note that you do not have to change the positive side going to the voltmeter. You only have to change the negative side. I am wondering if we should recommend that the easiest way through this is to retain the shunt and keep the R/O wire connected to the starter relay to give the voltmeter battery voltage. Then use a relay to ground the voltmeter pulled in with the stator output. In other words, one solution for everyone. No using the LG/R wire to feed the voltmeter for some and a relay for others. No choke relay for the HO people. Just one solution that gives everyone a good solution. Thoughts, please! Gary, I'm thinking one good solid solution for everyone. Really, it's a lot of work for you and can be confusing for others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted February 10, 2021 Author Share Posted February 10, 2021 Gary, I'm thinking one good solid solution for everyone. Really, it's a lot of work for you and can be confusing for others. John - I'm beginning to think you are right. And I really appreciate your input as you are probably more representative of the "normal" users, meaning those of us who haven't been playing with electrics/electronics for decades. But there have to be two solutions, one for those with an ammeter and one for those w/o. And, since the 2G harness is different, we need to show those separately. However, the end solution for both of those is the same. And, by doing it that way we might not need the separate Voltmeter tab. I think I see a way to make things much less complicated. Stand by... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machspeed Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 John - I'm beginning to think you are right. And I really appreciate your input as you are probably more representative of the "normal" users, meaning those of us who haven't been playing with electrics/electronics for decades. But there have to be two solutions, one for those with an ammeter and one for those w/o. And, since the 2G harness is different, we need to show those separately. However, the end solution for both of those is the same. And, by doing it that way we might not need the separate Voltmeter tab. I think I see a way to make things much less complicated. Stand by... Okay, here's another question, one I think I already know the answer to but want confirmation. Recall that I have a Painless kit that I will be using. There is a 4 gauge wire that runs from the alternator to the mega fuse and then to the battery side of the starter solenoid. I'm not seeing that in your schematics. Instead, I see the Blk/O wire or shunt. So, will I not be using the 4 gauge wire from the alternator? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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